Lost Pigeons

[Walter swanston]

I am now beginning to wonder if have been getting it wrong for years.Are there enough peregrine falcons in the whole of the UK to account for this seasons tremendous losses?Are there not many other factors to be considered such as global warming and totally changed weather patterns?While there is no doubt that predators are a major hazard in pigeon racing can we become tunnel visioned in blaming them for all our losses.Might be interesting to see what others think

[THE FIFER]

I think we need to look at other problems, BOP are a problem, but there are other things wrong,

[Guest stb-]

its not the bird they take its the carnage they cause taking it , over the last week ive been hit at home by a percy cock ,

 

my birds all dive out of the sky into the woods and you hear them crashing through the branches . Ive 3 missing from those scirmishes

 

3 all skinned down front one knocked its eye out and was put down

 

and one got a burst wing , that this has happend all week to me with the fekir

[frank-123]

What we need is a video of peregrines attacking a batch of birds just to see the carnage it creates

 

Look at this bunch of starlings i reckon our birds would do the same

[Guest Owen]

I have no doubt that Falcons not only take out pigeons but worse still scare the life out of them which causes the pigeons to become lost. However there is a lot more that needs to be examined properly before we just write these losses off against the Falcons.

Lack of quality birds because people breed from anything and everything. Give them a label off some long dead Fancier and a piece of paper and which may be authentic and maybe not and people will quite happily breed another generation. Then to preserve a team for next year people will stop these birds and hope they can win something as yearlings. Some hope.

Sick pigeons because many are never checked for diseases and will fail because they are sick. Then we have the people who love to treat with antibiotics. Fine if they continue to treat and continue to kill off the bacteria both good and bad but if they relax the bad bacteria can take over and the bird becomes useless.

Untrained pigeons will be bound to suffer in these days of serious clashing especially if they do not know how to drink in the crates.

Unplanned race control where there is serious clashing either from birds crossing from other race points or a build up of liberations due to bad weather.

Drivers and convoyers who have to get back because of commitments elsewhere which puts pressure on the Controllers to release when they may not think it is the best idea.

Badly designed transport. This is a subject that is very detailed and needs much more information but a good start would be to see that drinkers can be fitted on more than one side of the crates and that the ventilation works to the birds' benefit.

Last and definitely the most controversial. The long distance fans who will select their birds by breeding big numbers and are prepared to loose birds until they are left with candidates for the races they want to win. Before anyone jumps on this I actually know people who happily do this sort of thing.

[andy Burgess]

i agree with all above posts , the hawk does do a lot for losses despite taking the odd bird its the multitude which are scattered which is a greater curse .the other biggest factor in my opinion is "clashing" ,yes that old cherry , due to the majority of transport taking smaller numbers from localised areas ,libbing at diffrent times ,different directions etc .bring back the train all going in the same direction at the same time

[Walter swanston]

Very interested in your mention about badly designed transport I believe this is a matter which can be seriously improved and I hope to try and do something about it in my own federation.

[yeboah]

100% PEREGRINE FALCON,Bred and raced the doos since the early seventies purchased 30 rings yb's raced the programme would be left with approx 24 ish ,could then plan there future which would go to the coast as yearlings and in the days when eddie Newcombe ran the midweek specialist club your yearlings could fly dorchester 3 times,if you got a good one from the channel as a 2yo you could place a fair bet it would do better at 3 and 4yo,Training i would go to shap twice a week leaving my parents when it was still dark get down to shap 60mls liberate then travel back home for breakfast before heading to work the birds were always all home by then,got to laugh at these statements now regarding solar flares etc because if my memory serves me correctly the sun was there all those years ago and the birds did not get lost as they do now,when my yb,s were attacked last week by 5 peregrine I witnessed them being knocked to the ground and every time they tried to get airbourne and head back to the loft be targeted again took the last one's one and a half hours to make it,now just picture that happening from say 100,200 500mls from home,every saturday the birds going through that are being struck in the hills return to the town and will not then face the hills thats why my stray basket is nearly full again,No other reasons from me gents 100% FALCON.

[THE FIFER]

yes the starlings, in a bunch thats nature supposed to protect them, BOP are a big cause, but I think there are other factors, yes clashing and quick weather changes, the sky on a Saturday must be like a spiders web,

[Guest IB]

What we need is a video of peregrines attacking a batch of birds just to see the carnage it creates

 

Look at this bunch of starlings i reckon our birds would do the same

 

The Derby Arona thread contains 2 videos of attacks on liberations:-

 

Liberated on land

 

Liberated at sea

 

I think all 3 videos show classic 'innate' ability to avoid being taken. All those starlings are flying as one. They made for the only safe place, ground level - where a peregrine dare not attack without serious risk of collision with the deck. The pigeons also made for the only safe place - sea level - where a peregrine dare not attack without serious risk of ending up in the drink. Ask yourself, how did these young pigeons know that?

 

In Britain, reports of attacks at several different liberation sites on newly liberated pigeons suggested to me that peregrine behaviour is evolving. They now seem to be able to recognise racing pigeon transporters. Only circumstantial proof of that at the moment, but it appears to me to be more than sheer co-incidence that they appear seconds after the pigeons take to the air. There was also a report in the last 2 weeks of peregrines taking the late ones being chased out the transporter, not in the sky, but right outside the basket at the open flap - they came down to get them.

[lanarkshire lad]

100% PEREGRINE FALCON,Bred and raced the doos since the early seventies purchased 30 rings yb's raced the programme would be left with approx 24 ish ,could then plan there future which would go to the coast as yearlings and in the days when eddie Newcombe ran the midweek specialist club your yearlings could fly dorchester 3 times,if you got a good one from the channel as a 2yo you could place a fair bet it would do better at 3 and 4yo,Training i would go to shap twice a week leaving my parents when it was still dark get down to shap 60mls liberate then travel back home for breakfast before heading to work the birds were always all home by then,got to laugh at these statements now regarding solar flares etc because if my memory serves me correctly the sun was there all those years ago and the birds did not get lost as they do now,when my yb,s were attacked last week by 5 peregrine I witnessed them being knocked to the ground and every time they tried to get airbourne and head back to the loft be targeted again took the last one's one and a half hours to make it,now just picture that happening from say 100,200 500mls from home,every saturday the birds going through that are being struck in the hills return to the town and will not then face the hills thats why my stray basket is nearly full again,No other reasons from me gents 100% FALCON.

Good post plenty truths in there.

[Guest IB]

Can't all be down to BoPs though. Not every fancier has bother. Not every convoy is attacked.

[ALF]

Can't all be down to BoPs though. Not every fancier has bother. Not every convoy is attacked.

 

Maybe some are just lucky Ian...Personally as Lanarkshire Lad will tell you also we have had great training as we have been training in a group of up to 2000 birds at times safety in numbers but they still get hit as it happened to us on wednesday as some had pigeons missing theat came the next day including myself i got my last 1 on thursday morning minus most of it's tail...Maybe most of the convoys are attacked on route at some point but get lucky like my doo on wednesday and to say not every fancier has bother how can you make a statement like that as we dont know what happen sto them on route either from training or on a saturday from the race???

 

Alan

[Guest stb-]

i agree with all above posts , the hawk does do a lot for losses despite taking the odd bird its the multitude which are scattered which is a greater curse .the other biggest factor in my opinion is "clashing" ,yes that old cherry , due to the majority of transport taking smaller numbers from localised areas ,libbing at diffrent times ,different directions etc .bring back the train all going in the same direction at the same time

funnily enough my 5th and 6th pigeons yest booth came along with a NW bird which went stright in the door with them , i put booth in a baskeet and gave them a drink then let them off about an hour latter and they shot off straight away ,

Edited August 19, 2012 by stb-

[lanarkshire lad]

Maybe some are just lucky Ian...Personally as Lanarkshire Lad will tell you also we have had great training as we have been training in a group of up to 2000 birds at times safety in numbers but they still get hit as it happened to us on wednesday as some had pigeons missing theat came the next day including myself i got my last 1 on thursday morning minus most of it's tail...Maybe most of the convoys are attacked on route at some point but get lucky like my doo on wednesday and to say not every fancier has bother how can you make a statement like that as we dont know what happen sto them on route either from training or on a saturday from the race???

 

Alan

Alan last wednesday five mins after the doos cleared a batch of about 150 doos came back and headed south we watched them as we were still at the lib point so they must have been attacked further down the road.

[ALF]

Alan last wednesday five mins after the doos cleared a batch of about 150 doos came back and headed south we watched them as we were still at the lib point so they must have been attacked further down the road.

Jim they were attacked less than a mile from Meldons i seen the batch split up but couldnae see what caused it at the time as i was driving but it must have been percy as my doo got lucky but lost most of his tail mate

[Guest stb-]

Can't all be down to BoPs though. Not every fancier has bother. Not every convoy is attacked.

i dont think there will be a convoy in the country dosent get hit a good few times on way home , the percy could put my 90 ybs into the woods in a second and thats it only passing over not actually chasing them , they can turn 100,s of pigeons to the ground ,

 

when did you ask every fancier in the convoy if they have had a hit You dont half talk some pishe at times

 

out of the fanciers i know i dont know one thats not had a hit but thats only the ones i know and thats a load

[Delboy]

100% PEREGRINE FALCON,Bred and raced the doos since the early seventies purchased 30 rings yb's raced the programme would be left with approx 24 ish ,could then plan there future which would go to the coast as yearlings and in the days when eddie Newcombe ran the midweek specialist club your yearlings could fly dorchester 3 times,if you got a good one from the channel as a 2yo you could place a fair bet it would do better at 3 and 4yo,Training i would go to shap twice a week leaving my parents when it was still dark get down to shap 60mls liberate then travel back home for breakfast before heading to work the birds were always all home by then,got to laugh at these statements now regarding solar flares etc because if my memory serves me correctly the sun was there all those years ago and the birds did not get lost as they do now,when my yb,s were attacked last week by 5 peregrine I witnessed them being knocked to the ground and every time they tried to get airbourne and head back to the loft be targeted again took the last one's one and a half hours to make it,now just picture that happening from say 100,200 500mls from home,every saturday the birds going through that are being struck in the hills return to the town and will not then face the hills thats why my stray basket is nearly full again,No other reasons from me gents 100% FALCON.

 

Yes , correct Mick.

[Guest stb-]

Yes , correct Mick.

yes micks correct your lucky if you get 1 toss now without a strike

 

at some point on way home

[Delboy]

yes micks correct your lucky if you get 1 toss now without a strike

 

at some point on way home

 

The bop population will double every year too, so sit back and say good bye to our sport.

[AR]

Would agree that bop are a problem but I also think that we're keeping birds now that we wouldnt have kept a few year ago. Breeding off pigeons that are untested or continuously late or even out stray basket starts flooding lofts with birds not up to the job and to me it's all to do with keeping up numbers for fear of that bad race

[Walter swanston]

Okay, interesting posts however if a pergrine attacks a group of say 100 pigeons and takes one, the other 99 scramble every which way for safety why do the majority of the 99 not get home once they recover from their fright, does the trama of the falcon attack overcome their homing instinct?

[Guest stb-]

Okay, interesting posts however if a pergrine attacks a group of say 100 pigeons and takes one, the other 99 scramble every which way for safety why do the majority of the 99 not get home once they recover from their fright, does the trama of the falcon attack overcome their homing instinct?

well at home when mine go into the feilds and trees some dont appear for a few days and you have written them of , but on the ground at night foxes will have a feild day and other predators , also after a few days especially ybs they are hungry dehydrated and weak and get picked of by lesser bop spar goss etc who are always looking for ready meals

[Blue Chequer Pied]

The Derby Arona thread contains 2 videos of attacks on liberations:-

 

Liberated on land

 

Liberated at sea

 

I think all 3 videos show classic 'innate' ability to avoid being taken. All those starlings are flying as one. They made for the only safe place, ground level - where a peregrine dare not attack without serious risk of collision with the deck. The pigeons also made for the only safe place - sea level - where a peregrine dare not attack without serious risk of ending up in the drink. Ask yourself, how did these young pigeons know that?

 

In Britain, reports of attacks at several different liberation sites on newly liberated pigeons suggested to me that peregrine behaviour is evolving. They now seem to be able to recognise racing pigeon transporters. Only circumstantial proof of that at the moment, but it appears to me to be more than sheer co-incidence that they appear seconds after the pigeons take to the air. There was also a report in the last 2 weeks of peregrines taking the late ones being chased out the transporter, not in the sky, but right outside the basket at the open flap - they came down to get them.

 

 

Ian as much as I agree in principle that it is not 100% down to birds of prey ( I do think mobile phones, wireless broadband, airport guidance systems etc etc must have an effect) I do feel the at BOP's have a huge effect. I grew up in the country and have been a bird lover all my life even before i had pigeons. I now see sparrowhawks, peregrines, and even goshawks almost on a daily basis and I am sure if i set out to I would see them at every turn. I live in a town and I am visited very very regularly by all the above mentioned species.

 

The most interesting thing is that I have watched these birds for years and years and the worrying thing is I have watched them adapt. I had never seen a sparrowhak take birds in the air, now it is commonplace here. I witnessed peregrines, whilst fishing with my children at findorn bay attacking a flock of waders 20 meteres from me. The waders went into total panic and many plunged straight into the water, the peregrine then merely picked one off of the top of the water like an osprey ( we have loads of them here too). So the fear of attacking near water is a myth or more worrying learned behaviour.

[Guest stb-]

Ian as much as I agree in principle that it is not 100% down to birds of prey ( I do think mobile phones, wireless broadband, airport guidance systems etc etc must have an effect) I do feel the at BOP's have a huge effect. I grew up in the country and have been a bird lover all my life even before i had pigeons. I now see sparrowhawks, peregrines, and even goshawks almost on a daily basis and I am sure if i set out to I would see them at every turn. I live in a town and I am visited very very regularly by all the above mentioned species.

 

The most interesting thing is that I have watched these birds for years and years and the worrying thing is I have watched them adapt. I had never seen a sparrowhak take birds in the air, now it is commonplace here. I witnessed peregrines, whilst fishing with my children at findorn bay attacking a flock of waders 20 meteres from me. The waders went into total panic and many plunged straight into the water, the peregrine then merely picked one off of the top of the water like an osprey ( we have loads of them here too). So the fear of attacking near water is a myth or more worrying learned behaviour.

yes Paul i posted 4 or 5 weeks ago that a percy had flow over my house and grabed a pigeon just as they were landing on loft roof , it followed in behind them like a sparr hen ambush , i said i hope this is not the new tactics , this is now happening every other day the last week or so very worrying trend now