Distance Feeding Discussion

[victorious]

the more i read on this distance feeding the more complicated it gets is nothing simple anymore .

[Guest IB]

… Interestingly you posted the weights of each bird before and after being sent. Did you do this for all races? How many races did you candidates have? What where there previous weights say 2 weekends before the race, and there weight at the beginning of the season?

 

I didn’t weigh them until they were going away to the channel races. Weekly would have been too much for both of us as I have to put the pigeon in a box before popping it on the scales, so I think it is a bit stressful. 2010 was my second year attempting the channel and all I really wanted to know was how much weight the pigeons lost during the race, and of course what condition they were in coming home..

 

The work rate for my birds was calculated on 2/6/10, the week the National programme started. The 5 channel pigeons had by then flown:-

 

GRZC – 225 training + 546 race miles = 771 miles. The set-up race was 323 miles on 5/6 and he did that in 7h41m getting on the result. He had 1 x 50 mile trainer 16/6 (4 out of 7 of my channel team were involved in a hawk strike during training on 16/6. The cock lost 2 tail feathers, another hen got killed) before going to Reims race 28/6. Timed second morning.

 

GRZH – 255 training + 580 race miles = 835 miles. The set-up race was 323 miles on 5/6 and she did that in 8h8m getting on the result. She wasn’t trained before going to Reims race 28/6. Timed early next morning, 89th Open.

 

BBH – 65 training + 342 race miles = 407 miles. The set-up race was 273 miles on 12/6, she took 10 hours. Given 2 x 20 mile & 1 x 40 mile trainer 28/6 – 30/6 before going to Bourges 6/7. Reason she hadn’t as much roadwork was her egg cycle kept her at home on a lot of race days. Homed 11 days later.

 

CHQPDH – 315 training + 277 race miles = 592 miles. The set-up race was 273 miles on 12/6, she took 8 hours. Changed my mind on which race she was going to (condition) and she was given 4 x 20 mile trainers 7/7 to 12/7 before going to Clermont on 17/7. Timed second morning.

 

CHQH – 205 training + 462 RACE MILES = 667 miles. The set-up race was 399 miles on 21/6 She homed next day. She was given 4 x 20 mile trainers 7/7 to 12/7 before going to Clermont on 17/7. Timed early second morning taking 94th Open.

 

The plan I followed in 2010 was to ‘front load’ the bird’s workload sending them to most Federation races, plus 40 mile mid-week trainers every week, up until the set-up race. The birds were then basically rested in the intervening 3 weeks between set-up and their channel race during which I’d get them down on a suitable nest condition, with short trainers (if hen’s egg cycle allowed). The birds were on open loft whenever I was not working, and ‘hopper fed’ in their boxes from the beginning of the breeding season, with food always before them. Feeding was a basic ‘proprietary mixture’ of tic beans, maples & tares 45%: 45%: 10% – with added ‘straights’ maize, wheat, barley & brown rice – with the proportion of the ‘straights’ increased as the racing season progressed. Other than greens & hormoform, grit & pickstone, and a monthly probiotic, that was the feeding regime.

[jimmy_bulger]

a experianced fancier would not send a pigeon to a sprint race with a bit of weight on it, so why send one to the distance with a bit extra.

[OLDYELLOW]

a experianced fancier would not send a pigeon to a sprint race with a bit of weight on it, so why send one to the distance with a bit extra.

quite right Pigeons are athletes of the sky's not over weight body builders

[WulDon]

quite right Pigeons are athletes of the sky's not over weight body builders

 

 

NOW.. NOW! lol...

[clockman]

NOW.. NOW! lol...

cant find the photo,

[Guest Cawdy]

Tony, done bit of research on what you said mate, and gathering the information from it I gathered a few points of interest;

 

Fat is stored in the liver and the liver produces 50% fat for use as fuel for the pigeons body.

 

The liver can export these fats through the bloodstream in the form of fatty acids to storage cavities in the body, but many are sent to the red muscle cells in the breast which are used in flight and give an energy source for endurance.

 

Also reading A high fat diet reduces the levels of fat the liver can produce, the same is said for a high protein diet, however a high carb diet has the opposite affect and will increase it's production. And it is said protein should be fed lightly, fats in moderation, however when high fat diet is being fed the diet should have a higher carbohydrate percentage.

 

wiley the articles author dosent give any recommendation's on feed just that the protein be lower than the carbs

what would you recomend interims of an actual mix

[peter pandy]

WELL I AM REALLY SURPRISED NO ONE HAS HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD !!!.

Feeding racing pigeons is an art and loft location determines what you feed. As a retired gardener who has designed floral arrangements to bloom at certain times of the year and experience in award winning gardens where everything had to be perfect for a certain week in July when the estate would be open to the general public and all proceeds going to local charities or the village hall / church it was brought home to me that climate temperature determined all, if it was to be a success or failure.

If any fancier has picked up and read any horticulture books he or she will notice that almost all the authers are basing their books and experience on gardens located on the Southern parts of England. So do the large pigeon feed manufacturers. The feed mixes supplied by Versa Larga, Natural, Beyers etc, are designed for their home market with their Latitude on a par with Southern England, English suppliers copying suit. In an earlier post I responded that the mixture on show would result in a 4 hour fly with the birds toiling after that with no reserves left and losses occuring, I should have added in Scotland.

When I accepted the position of loft manager to C.J.Williams I assumed the successful feed I fed the birds in Scotland would automatically do the business in the Cotswolds ! How wrong was I. It dawned on me a couple of weeks later that I had been wearing shorts where in Bonnie Scotia I would still have had my thermals on and the birds were not eating as much which I reported to C.J. Mentioning that the stock were in great condition due to them eating so little of the Scots mixture I had made up. His reply was that every loft manager he employed had had a different feed mixture yet none had won for 20 years blaming loft location. I found that one manager was not a pigeon fancier but one of his workmen, another came from the Newcastle area and one from Manchester. The grain store for the birds was full of farm grain and consisted of local grown feedstuffs which was ordered by his secretary as and when required and was not the greatest quality which led to a discussion on what was fed to the birds when he had 31 Individual Federation Winners ?. His Secretary was informed to look back his records and pass on anything that looked like a pigeon mixture from 30-40 years past. A couple of days later up she popped with Marcel Desmet's feed mix as he was a personal friend of C.J. and had been a regular visitor to the estate. The contents of the grain store were disposed off and better Quality grain purchased.

I will continue this post at another time for those who are interested.

[Wiley]

wiley the articles author dosent give any recommendation's on feed just that the protein be lower than the carbs

what would you recomend interims of an actual mix

 

Cawdy, what I suggest as a mix many would disagree, but you ask ten fanciers what they feed you'd get ten different answers. I have for the last 8 years bought grains to mix and to take certain quantities for certain weather condition ect.

 

My own preference no matter what I mix I feel the birds need to be offered as many as possible a variety of grains to give the birds a choice. I am currently looking at a couple of mixtures for this season that I will be playing with for the distance, but basically what I am looking at is two widowhood mixtures, a fat mixture and I'm toying whether barley or depurative. But whether it is right or wrong I'd only be able to judge by the distance results this year.

 

 

Peter great post yet again mate some very interesting things you brought up. You mention no one has hit the nail on head could you please offer up how you do it?

 

Regards

Ryan

[peter pandy]

Ryan you take a nail in your left hand a hammer in your right, swing hard down with the hammer miss the nail and hit your hand. That gives you something to think about.

Seriously, I am doing cold turkey regarding drug addiction pain killers and have had 6 hours sleep over the past 7 days. To stop me cracking up I have thought deeply about the knowledge I have picked up over the years which could be beneficial to some.

[Wiley]

Ok Mr Mackintosh

[peter pandy]

The way I am feeling I get nausea looking at your boat.

[Guest ghenty]

WOW, what a thread! Probably the best one I have read on here so far. I too am looking at distance racing in the coming 2 years and although I understand there are many different view points on feeding, calm I right in sating that we are basically looking at a build up of protein in the 2-3 weeks before the intended race and then the last week-10 days this is changed over to carb loading, peanuts linseed, sunflower, safflower etc etc.

 

I know that all sounds very simple and appreciate there are variations on this but trying to condense this thread down into a handy pocket guide if that makes sense! We all know pigeons can be over-complicated sometimes!

[peter dempsey]

a great and interesting post and some very good replys

hope we can get more clarification on the subject

hope your detox goes well Peter you should be all clear now?

 

regards peter

[Guest bigda]

I THINK IT WAS AGREED, that birds going to long distance races, where to be fed crib MAZE and nothing else.

[Wiley]

I THINK IT WAS AGREED, that birds going to long distance races, where to be fed crib MAZE and nothing else.

Was it? LOL

[Guest ghenty]

Was it? LOL

 

 

My exact thoughts when I just came on here to check the replies in this thread!!!

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

Going back to Wiley's original post about the diet mix as the last two days feed before shipping I have heard of a very similar system where fanciers would give 100% barley the 4th and 3rd day before shipping with the theory that the birds will wat well in the remaining two days.

 

Have also been told to pay very close attention to what the birds eat the last two days,not so much in quantity but the actual grains.Pay particular attention to the ones that are still laying into the maize.

 

I was finding it hard last year to get hens to eat well in the build up to basketting.When racing birds to the nest obviously you have a much smaller window to excerise and feed the hens than you do the cock birds.In addition to this keen hens are very difficult to coax off a nest,even with peanuts or hemp.

 

One the best tips I've been given to remedy this(don't laugh at its simplicity) Is to have a pot of food level with the nestbowl at all times so the hens can eat without leaving the nest.

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

On another note I had a conversation with a top old fancier during the winter and he said when he looks at some of mixtures,supplements,methods and feeding systems he wonders how he ever managed to time birds from 500+ miles on the day of liberation

[peter pandy]

Thank's to all who contacted me regarding detoxing from Tramadol pain killers as it was a long haul, roughly three months, problem is the pains from my unhealed broken ribs is back. Every time I turn or lift my hands above my head the ends grate against each other however I will suffer in silence.

[peter dempsey]

HI Peter I know from your posts that Pain killers were your problem ? however I was unaware

of your reasons for taking them in the first place ie your broken ribs or other injuries

 

I give up tea every year for lent, the pain I endure in my kidneys for a few days is unreal

 

cant sleep and move all night in bed with the aches and pains ? if I put this up on the forum they would call me a liar ? then again I would drink anything up to 15 cups each day

I also tried to help my Nephew come down of heroin 22 years of age well we won the battle

and he was clean for a year only to fall back to the Heroin

he since lost his fight with the demon drug and overdosed 7 years ago on saint valentines night

so I have a fair idea of what you had to indure ps I loved your article hope to see some more

of your thoughts on the forum

keep well

kindest regards peter

[peter pandy]

Their are Beans and Beans. !!

 

When I returned or should I say retired to Scotland the first place I went was to the farm I had obtained my beans from for many many years prior to taking up other positions in England and Wales. I was extremely disappointed to find the farmer had died and his son was in the throes of turning the farm into a shooting estate. Now this farm was contracted for many years to Heinze baked beans whose agricultural experts advised on soil analysis and reccomendations on fertilizers to be spread for optimum quality.

One particular fancier purchased x amount of tons every year for distribution to his friends which included himself the late Duncan Ogilvie,Stirling. Bert Hunter,Alva. Whitelaw Bros, Armadale. Robert Cormack,Winchburgh. Nash,Croy. Jock Reid,Stenhousemuir. and myself.

Those beans were of extreme quality which I have been unable to source since, however when employed in Wales I became extremely friendly with Ray Strawbridge in Newport who enlightened me that the really top distance men in that neck of the woods all purchased their beans from a farm 50 miles north of them which on investigation proved to be of a quality equal to what I had fed in the past.

I have digressed a little so will get back to my point. I have never been able to obtain a quality bean since retiring and therefore have had to consider my feeding programme this year which so far has been a disappointment regarding results although it is a young team of yearlings and latebreds.

I have been so disappointed when visiting outlets and seeing rubbish beans of dubious quality and high prices that I will not be making the same mistake for next year and hiring a van to make the 600 mile round trip for decent beans which will ensure I will breed quality youngsters and the racing body required for distance athletes.

As I headlined their are Beans and Beans.

[just ask me]

Going back to Wiley's original post about the diet mix as the last two days feed before shipping I have heard of a very similar system where fanciers would give 100% barley the 4th and 3rd day before shipping with the theory that the birds will wat well in the remaining two days.

 

Have also been told to pay very close attention to what the birds eat the last two days,not so much in quantity but the actual grains.Pay particular attention to the ones that are still laying into the maize.

 

I was finding it hard last year to get hens to eat well in the build up to basketting.When racing birds to the nest obviously you have a much smaller window to excerise and feed the hens than you do the cock birds.In addition to this keen hens are very difficult to coax off a nest,even with peanuts or hemp.

 

One the best tips I've been given to remedy this(don't laugh at its simplicity) Is to have a pot of food level with the nestbowl at all times so the hens can eat without leaving the nest.

 

 

i find it hard to get some of mine to eat the last 2 days before a race i find the ones that eat very little usually put in a performance

[Diamond dave]

If I may I would like to add another angle to this thread. When I first started with the doos about 9-10 years ago, there was a fella in the club who used to excell at the distance. However, if you saw the condition he used to put his birds in the basket you would be disgusted - as I was. The problem was that I was very green at the time and didn't know any different but no-one else in the club seemed to be concerned about it. His birds went into the basket as skinny as rakes - as though they hadn't been fed for at least a week if not 2. But let me tell you this guy always used to be there or there abouts. I guess his policy was to leave all of the feeding to the convoyer and the birds would put on condition for the 4-5 days that they were in the basket on route to the race point.

I suppose it goes to show that you don't necessrily need to worry too much about what you feed them before hand because what they get on route would be enough anyway.

Incidently, this is not a policy that I have adopted.

 

D.D.

[Guest bluemorning]

when birds are sent to races when eggs are due to hatch do members find that birds flying 350 miles upwards fair better and is it because they use the rich crop milk they have on board just a thought but be intrested to hear from members on this one