natural yoghurt

[micko and jack]

after reading some older threads some member said about giving their birds natural yoghurt  as its full of GOOD BACTERIA

at this time of year the water is freezing if you put natural yoghurt in your drinkers will the cold kill all that good bacteria

or

if you put warm water in your drinkers again will the warm water kill the bacteria

should the yoghurt be used at this time when thinking about starting to pair up ??

maybe someone could post the dosage per litre of water thanks micko

[REDCHEQHEN]

You put the yoghurt on the corn

 

It doesn't mix that well in water - tending to drop to the bottom of the drinker after the initial stir

[nogin]

after reading some older threads some member said about giving their birds natural yoghurt  as its full of GOOD BACTERIA

at this time of year the water is freezing if you put natural yoghurt in your drinkers will the cold kill all that good bacteria

or

if you put warm water in your drinkers again will the warm water kill the bacteria

should the yoghurt be used at this time when thinking about starting to pair up ??

maybe someone could post the dosage per litre of water thanks micko

 

YOU KEEP YOGHURT IN THE FRIDGE ANYWAY SO IT'S COLD. ONE SOOP SPOON TO ONE LB OF FEEDING OK M8 8)

[Tony C]

I give it to them in their drinker. The water I use is bottled water with no chlorine, a small pot of yoghurt to 2 litres of this water.  I hold back the water for 15 minutes after feeding then give it to them, they’ll dive in and take a good drink then. You need to give yoghurt after times of stress or during a period when they look of colour and could be fighting something and after any sort of treatment.

[barnsley_pigeonman]

i give natural yoghurt  when young birds go of color abit for about 2 days works great

[greenlands]

My breeders are getting yogurt on their feed nearly every day,the odd day on cider vinegar.Young birds are doing well.Lindsay

[kirky]

I put yoghurt on the corn once a month when racing ob & ybs.

[OLDYELLOW]

durring cold months i put it in water  i just mix very well then no big clots on bottom of drinker when it warm easier to put on corn have to agree with Tony c  periods of stress and after antibiotics   great for the calcium content whilst feeding ybs

[Guest]

Yoghurt only stops working when it goes dry, like when its put on the food!

[Guest Owen]

I have my doubts about the idea of things like natural yogurt doing all it is cracked up to doing. Like lots of other people I have used it a lot in the past. But how can something like yogurt survive the digestive system and do good in the gut. Our problems with YBS etc are in the gut mostly. I know for certain that there are medications that do not survive the digestive juices. I can see how cider vinegar and garlic can work because they create acid conditions which affect the gut. And it is the fact that a lot of the nasty bacteria can not live or thrive in acid conditions that is critical. I would like to hear a Vet on this subject before I can go along with it.

[Guest IB]

Whe I used yoghurt, it went on the food, freshly mixed on 3 consecutive days. I'd never dream of putting it in drinking water - don't really know why, but feel a lot would be wasted, no 'all gobbled up in an instant' as happens when on the food.

 

Had that same gut feeling when I changed to Flighpath (larger number of birds) when making choice on food or in the water? Leaflet says it loses quality in water after 4 hours - not paying for that to happen - and it goes on the food too, mixed first in oil, and is 'all gobbled up in an instant' no waste there then.

 

 

[Roland]

As a Renouned worldwide vet wrote me.... Yes have posted before .............

 

Roland:  Yoghurt as a probiotic for pigeons - it's my understanding that the

organisms in yoghurt are meant for the human digestive tract, and as such,

they don't colonise the intestines of pigeons very well.  The second point

is that, according to a human pediatric gastro-enterologist whose seminar I

attended not long ago, 90% of the organisms (if not ALL) in commercial

yoghurt are dead when the product is purchased.  So the product would not

appear to be as useful for the digestive tract of either humans or pigeons

as we'd like to think.  (Home-made yoghurt might be an viable alternative.

Preparation kits are often available in specialty shops and may reduce costs

substantially.) This specialist recommended (for humans) to purchase

acidophilus capsules from the refrigerator case in food or specialty stores,

and NOT to buy the same product sitting on a shelf at room temperature. For

pigeons, I think an avian-source probiotic would be best.   Happy New Year!  

 

[Guest IB]

I have my doubts about the idea of things like natural yogurt doing all it is cracked up to doing. Like lots of other people I have used it a lot in the past. But how can something like yogurt survive the digestive system and do good in the gut. Our problems with YBS etc are in the gut mostly. I know for certain that there are medications that do not survive the digestive juices. I can see how cider vinegar and garlic can work because they create acid conditions which affect the gut. And it is the fact that a lot of the nasty bacteria can not live or thrive in acid conditions that is critical. I would like to hear a Vet on this subject before I can go along with it.

 

If you are happy with an extract from 'Gut Microflora' which has a chapter on probiotics, including live yoghurt, and addresses the concerns you raise, I'll do a post when I get home from work tonight. Eyeopener.

 

[Guest IB]

 

If you are happy with an extract from 'Gut Microflora' which has a chapter on probiotics, including live yoghurt, and addresses the concerns you raise, I'll do a post when I get home from work tonight. Eyeopener.

 

Gut Microflora – Digestive Physiology and Pathology ISBN 207420-0585-4

 

Extract Chapter 3 (by Philippe Marteau) Pages 42 – 47

 

Probiotics are living bacteria or yeast, present in certain foods, particularly fermented dairy products. They participate in their production, or have been added to them or medicinal products. The number of living microorganisms in each product is often greater than 10,000,000.

 

The majority of studies have described the survival of probiotics in the gut. The active substances are still unknown, except for the lactase enzyme contained in the yogurt bacteria.

 

Probiotic examples in supplements or medical products:-

 

Bifidobacterium lactis

Bifidobacterium animalis

Lactobacillus rhamnosus

Lactobacillus johnsonii

Lactobacillus casei

Lactobacillus casei shirota

Lactobacillus salivarius

Lactobacillus reuteri

Enterococcus faecium

Escherichia coli Nissle 1917 (non-pathogenic e-coli)

Saccharomyces boulardii  (a yeast)

 

Survival and colonization of probiotics in the gut.  

 

Survival differs according to species and strain. Some are destroyed as soon as they pass into the stomach, while others survive to be recovered in faeces. The yogurt bacteria  Lactobacillus delbruekii bulgaricus and Streptococcus thrmophilus have low tolerance to acid and are destroyed within a few minutes. The stomach has a Ph of  1.

 

A count of 100,000 - a viable concentration of starter bacteria - has been observed in the small intestine (survivors from 10,000,000 eaten in 430g of yogurt). Lactococcus lactis had a low survival there because of low tolerance to acid and bile.  Some  Bifidobacteria and Lactobacillus plantarum NCIB 8826 eaten in yogurt,  have a significant rate of survival in faeces with faecal concentrations greater than 100,000,000 per gram. Lactobacillus acidophilus, reuteri, and  rhamnosus faecal concentrations were 1,000,000 per gram. In humans, 1 gram a day of Saccharomyces boulardii  faecal concentrations were 100,000 per gram.

 

Probiotics are usually excreted in faeces a few days after they are eaten. Some colonization of the gut lining has been observed. The concentrations of microorganisms passing through the gut after a probiotic are often as large as those seen during chronic bacterial infection.  

 

So how do they work?

 

It is still not fully understood. Probiotics share one thing only in common – they are all non-pathogenic. In all other respects they differ considerably from one another. In diverse clinical cases, in both humans and animals, they have been demonstrated to have significant multiple, direct beneficial effects. Several have direct beneficial effects on the gut mucous lining. Many animal studies have found oral probiotic administration could modulate the gut wall immune barrier and / or the systemic immune barrier, in particular the ingestion of very high quantities of yogurt bacteria.

 

[Guest IB]

I have my doubts about the idea of things like natural yogurt. I would like to hear a Vet on this subject before I can go along with it.

 

I had a bird with an infected shoulder joint under Andrew Lawrie's care in 2004. He's an avian specialist vet in Falkirk. After a 4/5 week course on 2 antibiotics had finished, and knowing the effect that would have on the birds gut bacteria, I asked him about a probiotic. He rhymed off 3 or 4, but I told him I'd prefer a more natural one, live yoghurt, and he told me it was as good as any. So £1 pot from local supermarket, experimented with it on my birds, and reckoned on once per month, 3 consecutive days, spooned on food and turned over until I had a dry cake-mix consistency, grains didn't stick to each other or spoon.

 

Any more than 3 days and droppings got loose.

 

[aye ready]

was told soya yoghurt from health food shops was good for doo's,going to try it

[Guest Owen]

IB thanks for the info. I hope I can return the favour one of these days.

[Guest]

i use yakult in the water every sunday

is this possibly the reason ive never had young bird sickness ? or just lucky ?

 

dave

[Guest Freebird]

Just for interest and for IB as he has a lot of knowledge on the subject, I just got back into pigeons last year and when I finally got them out they eventually found where our annual swallows roost and imediatly started eating thier droppings. Now at first I was concerned but after thinking about it and what had been stated on here about gut bacteria etc. I just left them to it. Anyway, no visual signs to indicate an adverse reaction and when you think about it only fit swallows could make the 2000 mile or so journey to Scotand so what were they getting from these droppings? They certainly seemed to know what they were doing and every time they got out they made a b-line to the swallow droppings. I give them all the usual pigeon needs but maybe have to think probiotics. What do you think IB or anyone else? They are not racers by the way.

[OLDYELLOW]

i read somewhere that birds can get vitamin d from eating there own droppings i suppose your birds werent getting enough daylight ? or was deficient in vitamin d

[Guest Freebird]

Ahahahahaha! Na, plenty daylight ( all day every day ), loft faces south and has aviary. So what gives them vit D apart from daylight? Wish the birds could talk though!

[greenlands]

i read somewhere that birds can get vitamin d from eating there own droppings i suppose your birds werent getting enough daylight ? or was deficient in vitamin d

cod liver oil once a week shoul help beat that situation.Lindsay

 

 

[Guest Owen]

Back a while ago, I read quite a lot about probiotics. Most of it was written by Vets. The overridding opinions were that young pigeons need to eat their own droppings. The proviso was that there should'nt be anything wet or contaminated with cocci or worms. The recommendation was that we fanciers should use dry deep litter for young birds.

I did not like it when I read it because I thought that deep litter was bad for me and the pigeons. And although I have not tried it yet, I might give it a go in one parting, this year. I think there may be something in it, and due to the fact that I killed 4 very well bred YBs last year with YBS, it could be helpful. Up to now I have used Gem Thepax, G10 pellets, and yogurt. I always have an anti YBS product handy and I use it at the first sign of trouble. Non of it works 100%. Although I don't loose many YBs, I am sure that some that are lost are probably ill. I would welcome your views.

[Guest Freebird]

Back a while ago, I read quite a lot about probiotics. Most of it was written by Vets. The overridding opinions were that young pigeons need to eat their own droppings. The proviso was that there should'nt be anything wet or contaminated with cocci or worms. The recommendation was that we fanciers should use dry deep litter for young birds.

I did not like it when I read it because I thought that deep litter was bad for me and the pigeons. And although I have not tried it yet, I might give it a go in one parting, this year. I think there may be something in it, and due to the fact that I killed 4 very well bred YBs last year with YBS, it could be helpful. Up to now I have used Gem Thepax, G10 pellets, and yogurt. I always have an anti YBS product handy and I use it at the first sign of trouble. Non of it works 100%. Although I don't loose many YBs, I am sure that some that are lost are probably ill. I would welcome your views.

Yep, these swallow droppings were bone dry, black with a dollop of white on top and obviously had something the birds required. Forgot to say these birds had never been outside before I got them.

 

 

[Merlin]

Healthy pigeon droppings.dried on a board by the Sun,is very beneficial as an additive for the birds,just make sure it is dry,birds will readily pick at it,some more than others,also Buttermilk/ soaked into feed once a week,especially for youngsters.