ets rule change

[holmsidelofts]

Oh you mean 'Ignorance is Bliss eh'! No it's not, and once set, as most will be sorted by the Clubs Sec and told - as you have already admitted, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Mind the real silliness of that ignorance is if you had a great bird winning in a hot, prestigeous race and got disqualfied, your' let your bird down, your selve down and be branded ever more as a cheat and a right plonker! .... And quite rightly so too!

Get real and have the common decency to be a little more fairer to the Manual clockers. Think it is the hieght of repugnance and selfishness. Boo hoo can only get 14 second on a manual clocker :'( :'( :'(

 

 

Sorry rolland its not to do with ignorance, and im certainly am not a cheat what i am saying is everyone interprets things differently, as you obviously did when you read what i wrote. ets doesnt win you races you have to get the bird to the loft in the first place. I was just as quick clocking with a t3 and a super trap as i am with the ets so all this arguments about being fair to manual clockers is a load of bull. its the bird that wins the race not the clocking system. we can argue about this until we are blue in the face, until the rpra releases pictures this will be talked about for years. to the non ets fanciers who against ets its your choice, you have the same options as the rest of us, move into the 21st century and stop moaning about it.

 

 

[hotrod]

 

AM JUST REPEATING WAT A MENBER SAID ON ERE

IM SORRY M8 DON'T KNOW OW CLOSE YOUR NXT LOFT IS TO YOU BUT WE GOT 29 LOFTS IN A TINY RADIUS SO IF YOU GOT TIME FER YOUR BIRDS TO DRINK GOOD LUCK TO YER

 

no probs mate  as i have said ets is here and here to stay i just wish there could be a commitee set up to sort the rulesw good and proper ,and prob more of us non believers would get it installed .winning small club/fed races used to be my thing but done that won that got the tee shirt so now only interested in the national races from france .

[Alen Gibb]

Aled, I think you are missing the point on at least two accounts. NO trapping mechanism ever invented would, or could cost £400 to have a slight alteration. It is just not feasible. Your birds I take it, on these system you bought, allows the birds to enter – regardless of what stage, or process, to actually enter your loft. So a simple devise must be available to allow you to put a pad, 2 inches lower when they are in.

And two, I’m not calling you a cheat, or saying you will… But many will be, no two ways about that.

The RPRA have done this to even up an unjust ruling. One that they were well aware of I have no doubt whatsoever when they made it.

They have bow, reluctantly I’d wager, to the majority that were, are and still will be at a great disadvantage.

Now as any law abiding fancier can see, and read, and understand, or have it explained to them, the RPRA have made it crystal clear that to time a bird in, it must be for a brief period confined to barracks, as any bird manually clocked has to be. Ok after they have been timed in, if the fancier allows, or lets, or the scenario is that they can / could again go outside so be it. Nothing changed there then.

But the RPRA also knows full well that many will kick up, (which you and many more did / have) and many will flout the law. – Not for a moment saying you will Aled - Hence why the RPRA have had Dc this that, and the other, WRITE UP in their’ rags as such. This is simply to reinforce their’ commitment to this new ruling… AS useless as the ruling is in reality. But totally fair and right, and just, as far as the vast majority of the fancy are concerned.

Aled, answer just one question, why are you and other so upset, and pain seekingly trying to get around this ruling and want to be able to time in without any containment whatsoever to the bird…. Only one answer to why, and that is because …

Tell you what, for a fiver I’ll come and alter them traps for you and make them just as good and legal as to this new ruling, and I’m a bodge artiste and not a ‘Chippy’.

So depending where you live I’ll get a ‘Chippy’ with me. Indeed I won’t even split the difference with the money you will save!

I had to have a string mechanism to my trap that pulls the trapping board up inside, with a pad underneath it, and fasten it to hooks at the side. Why? Because I have sliding doors with bob wires.

I still haven’t used my ET yet. Why, well I didn’t want unfair advantage over manual clocker’s and offered them all 20 first bird, and 12 seconds every other bird there after. And I already give some up to 10 – 15 miles to flyers Easy of me. So they I could say have enough advantage on their side already.

Mind having said that I actually resigned from that club this last AGM.

Aled 1000's are, and have been taken advantage of... Just what part of an little more of an even playing field do yuyou dislike?

 

The name’s Alen by the way.

 

I have three bays on my loft, each designed around my trapping system with the pads inside the bays. I cannot lower my pads in order for the birds to drop through bobs on to the pads because that would leave insufficient space for the birds to fly from the loft. I would need completely new bays at a cost of around £400. Don’t make uninformed comments about things you don’t know about.

 

The original rule was not unjust – just poorly put together but that it is not the fault of the fancier. A rule is a rule, however poorly worded and everyone is obliged to follow that rule as it is worded. I have no doubt that the ‘spirit’ of the rule was quite basic – a bird should not be allowed to clocked merely by alighting on a landing board or other external surface. I fully agree with that and can see no argument.

 

The new rule implied that the bird had to be confined within the loft or trap This of course would have lead to the absolutely farcical situation where a fancier flying to open door with his pads in a corridor would have to close the door after each bird before it could be clocked. This led to some debate at the March meeting which resulted in a clarification. It was decided that so long as, at the time of clocking, the pigeon is inside the loft, then it is legally clocked.

 

I have no problem with that. In effect the clarification negates the fact that a bird must be confined. When my birds are clocked they are inside the loft but, as with the open door fancier, they are not confined.

 

Is it fair? Probably not. What is in pigeon racing? Is it fair that for years I trapped via let boards and sputniks when my mates had stall traps? No – but it didn’t bother me – it was my choice and, at the time, my pocket didn’t allow for the expense. Is it fair that the old and disabled have to catch their birds with difficulty when they are competing with young and fit fanciers who sometimes have two, three or more helpers at the loft? No it’s not. Is it fair that with the new clarification, the open door fancier can have his bird fly straight into the loft and land on his pads to be clocked while mine is still on the landing board deciding on whether to go through the tunnels or not? No it’s not – but again it doesn’t bother me. The important thing is that our birds have arrived home and have entered the loft – confined or not.

 

Finally Roland, I really admire people like you – having spent hundreds on a timing system I must applaud your motives for not using it because it gave you an unfair advantage over manual clockers. I can’t think of many who would do that – fair play to you.

 

[Roland]

Last say on this, as it is just a case of some wanting to put over a case of not being able to place a pad under a landing board to time in. Hence gaining even more advantage.

  dwh regardless how you take a rubber of and place in a thimble, whether with sledge hammer /pliers/ tweezers or fingers , at that tine it has to be confined.

Simple. Now if a Manul clockers birds - more likely as it knows what is coming, I.e the rubber coming of, gets out Tough, it won't be timed. - A et Timer has already timed it.

If a pigeon enters an open door to be timed, but turns around and flies out before, it isn't timed in, because the manual - and if a ET clocker caught them first to place on pad, then it wouldn't be timed in... A. here no ET timer hardly ever would do that, ut for your benefit  dwh let's say some did... Then the bird wouldn't have been contained / confine to be able to clock it in, so there is no logic there.

  Now if a pigeon lans on the floor out side of the open door, then the Pigeon would have to be handled / confined and rubber took off. Even so, the ET timer would be quicker in placing on board than taking rubber of, into thimble clock etc.

Unless they both had their clocks next door r somewhere and the Mnual clockers' was near

So even in any scenairo a ET timer is a lot quicker. So where is the problem? there isn't one ... Except you obviously want to steal - like many more - and have the pad under the landing board.

Like I say, just come up with a sensible, ration realistic argument and we will listen. But as you can't, and then isn't one, please stopping speaking what you falsely accuse others of... talking a load of B***LOCKS AND CODSWALLOP End OF.

[chichichi]

why not introduce a rule stating when trap is closed the bird can't clock,, solves all problems,,  so trap has to be opened for a bird to clock..

 

Once all are on ets there will be no advantage,, stall trap and old gent clocking on his own now is a massive advantage to the youngster on a stall trap.. there has always been an advantage for clocking,, ets makes it a level playing field for all on it..

 

best of luck to all

 

ant

[Pompey Mick]

Isn't about time that we stop trying to compare two entirely different ways of timing birds in a pigeon race, the constant efforts of some to reduce the efficiency of ETS in order to get some sort of parity with manual clocking should be confined to the dustbin where they belong.

We continually hear of 'basic principles' and 'conventional clocking' when referring to the action of manual clocking.   ETS has superseded that with a system of clocking which clocks pigeons from a race in an efficient manner which manual clocking cannot reproduce.  This is what would be expected of any technological innovation.

In some countries, ETS is fast becoming 'conventional clocking'  and the 'basic principle' of grabbing a pigeon and wrenching a rubber ring from its leg is fast becoming a memory.

Manual clocking has become the 'Old way' of clocking pigeons much the same as 'Natural Flying' is considered the 'Old way' by exponents of the Widowhood system  and 'Bean Feeding' is considered Old Hat by many fanciers.

This doesn't mean feeding natural pigeons on beans and clocking in on an STB still using thimbles will stop a vast number of fanciers from winning quality races.

Trying to thieve seconds from ETS users by manipulation of rules to hinder clocking is just trying to keep our Sport in the 1950s. If you dont want ETS, dont have it (you'll still win races), but dont begrudge those fanciers who are prepared to invest in modern technology.

[Guest JonesyBhoy]

If we put as much energy in to dealing with the BOP situation as me do moaning about ETS, we may keep our sport from declining even further..

[Guest TAMMY_1]

My sensors are inside the loft but with having bob wires at the back of the trap the birds can come back out after being clocked so to comply with the new rule I have put the bob wires on the front,so the bird goes through the bobs onto the sensor and on into the loft but cant get back out.

 

That is exactly the way I altered ours to,took 10 minutes to drill 2 holes and change the wires from the back to the front,got a joiner friend to make ours, as good as anybody else that makes them and only cost £10 each  [the cost of the half inch external ply ]

[T_T]

My sensors are inside the loft but with having bob wires at the back of the trap the birds can come back out after being clocked so to comply with the new rule I have put the bob wires on the front,so the bird goes through the bobs onto the sensor and on into the loft but cant get back out.

 

I have a 2' corridor. My pad is inside the loft on the front of a sliding door, with bob wires at the back.  So when the pigeon times, it is not confined unless they go through the bob wires into the loft proper and where they can't get out. To conform and for my own peace of mind, what I shall do now is to put a removable frame that will hold the pad inside the sliding door and the birds will go through the bob wires before timing therefore being confined.

[Roland]

Have always done that TT in my trapping. So I believe that is more than suffice when I do actually use mine this coming season.

n other coutries, like Canada and the USA etc. etc. it is already, and has been the ruling that to be ET timed, the timer has to be inside the upright where the bird has to be in the loft - avery or whatever to be timed in.... yes and most likely confined. Can't for the live of me see where any ET timing device would be a few feet inside a loft where the bird could at any time turn around and fly, or walk out! Just where are these dreamers getting it from. Personally if DWH etc. or anyone wants to place the pad on the lawn, or on a chimney top for all I care let them do it. Somehow can't see them doing hat, especially as they think a manual clocker would and they want to do the same lol   :P ;D ;D ;D ;D

[T_T]

Have always done that TT in my trapping. So I believe that is more than suffice when I do actually use mine this coming season.

n other coutries, like Canada and the USA etc. etc. it is already, and has been the ruling that to be ET timed, the timer has to be inside the upright where the bird has to be in the loft - avery or whatever to be timed in.... yes and most likely confined. Can't for the live of me see where any ET timing device would be a few feet inside a loft where the bird could at any time turn around and fly, or walk out! Just where are these dreamers getting it from. Personally if DWH etc. or anyone wants to place the pad on the lawn, or on a chimney top for all I care let them do it. Somehow can't see them doing hat, especially as they think a manual clocker would and they want to do the same lol   :P ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

 

Purely for my own peace of mind Roland, I want to do what I consider is right.  Should others have different Ideas then I wish them well.

 

[dwh]

Have always done that TT in my trapping. So I believe that is more than suffice when I do actually use mine this coming season.

n other coutries, like Canada and the USA etc. etc. it is already, and has been the ruling that to be ET timed, the timer has to be inside the upright where the bird has to be in the loft - avery or whatever to be timed in.... yes and most likely confined. Can't for the live of me see where any ET timing device would be a few feet inside a loft where the bird could at any time turn around and fly, or walk out! Just where are these dreamers getting it from. Personally if DWH etc. or anyone wants to place the pad on the lawn, or on a chimney top for all I care let them do it. Somehow can't see them doing hat, especially as they think a manual clocker would and they want to do the same lol   :P ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

THIS is my last word on this roland remarks like that  make you look like a fool our pad is behind bobs and always has been you my friend are one of these people who comes across as one who thinks change is for the worst this thread has been kept going and the arguement wil carry on  by people like you and there are a few in our club think ets users are out to get one over on manual clocks ask any fancier  who has  gone onto ets wether they would go back onto manual 99.9%would say no simply because it is better for fancier AND pigeon.

 

YOU BY YOUR LAST REMARKS ARE INFERING THAT MYSELF AND OTHERS  WOULD DO ANYTHING TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE AND I FIND THAT INSULTING FOR MYSELF AND THE ETC YOU ARE REFERRING TO END OF

[BLACK W F]

i have  ETS   and i still have my old trusty STB  but what ever you use you got to have the birds to do it be there   other wise your no where   each to their own put it where ever you like for me i could not care less  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  ETS  dont make you a better flyer and if they dont trap dont do you any good any way  ;D ;D ;D

[nogin]

i have  ETS   and i still have my old trusty STB  but what ever you use you got to have the birds to do it be there   other wise your no where   each to their own put it where ever you like for me i could not care less  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  ETS  dont make you a better flyer and if they dont trap dont do you any good any way  ;D ;D ;D

 

WELL SAID THAT MAN  ;D

[Roland]

 

 

dwh my last remark means exactly that! When you say '.......... YOU BY YOUR LAST REMARKS ARE INFERING THAT MYSELF AND OTHERS WOULD DO ANYTHING TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE AND I FIND THAT INSULTING FOR MYSELF AND THE ETC YOU ARE REFERRING TO END OF ' etc.

Tough. Still haven’t given a reason of substance as to why you should keep your ill gotten and unfair extra advantage!

Simple really, the ET is a boon and could / should be very good for the sport, very good indeed. I wish the RPRA and other governing bodies had cooperated and got everyone via lottery fund to have one. Indeed then if one still stubbornly refused to use it, well then tough.

Every one knows exactly the benefits of the ET Timer! None more so than the manual clocker – No! For many reasons not every one can have one for many reasons as you should very well know.

So when the RPRA simply rule that 'You have enough advantages now, without adding insult to the manual clocker’s there can only be one conclusion for the vast majority. They don't want to give up 5 - 6 seconds advantage and want the whole cake and to eat it.

Just a little thought for you all. As the RPRA had and took umpteen time, years in fact, consulting other countries, even having independent surveys done etc.

They knew, must have done, that the main and biggest obstacle when implemented would be, like the other countries have made the ruling, Birds ET Time must be inside the upright with no possible chance of a leg or whatever timing that bird in with out it being contained. Simple.  So just why did they try and pull a fast stroke?

Possibly in their infinite wisdom, they thought as soon as the manual clockers’ see the advantages, plus no need for the bird to even go into the loft to be time in, more would flock to having one! It had the - expected I'd say - results. 2/3s of the manual clockers thought that this was adding insult to injury. So they have had to back track before being made to by the ballot. Yes the rule changing that has had to take place.

So now you know and cry all you like. Time it is to be at least a little charitable when fleecing someone... I know, leave some skin to grow back ... so you can go and fleece them again later. Lol

[hammers]

I see my ETS advantage has reduced from a 14 second advantage down to 5 - 6 seconds, all in a couple of days. Damn!!!!! May send it back now, thats no good to me.  :K) :K) :K)

[Roland]

I see my ETS advantage has reduced from a 14 second advantage down to 5 - 6 seconds, all in a couple of days. Damn!!!!! May send it back now, thats no good to me.  :K) :K) :K)

 

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest vander mungo]

 

THIS is my last word on this roland remarks like that  make you look like a fool our pad is behind bobs and always has been you my friend are one of these people who comes across as one who thinks change is for the worst this thread has been kept going and the arguement wil carry on  by people like you and there are a few in our club think ets users are out to get one over on manual clocks ask any fancier  who has  gone onto ets wether they would go back onto manual 99.9%would say no simply because it is better for fancier AND pigeon.

 

YOU BY YOUR LAST REMARKS ARE INFERING THAT MYSELF AND OTHERS  WOULD DO ANYTHING TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE AND I FIND THAT INSULTING FOR MYSELF AND THE ETC YOU ARE REFERRING TO END OF

had to rewrite this reply,fancy stil full of members who wont move forward in the modern timing methods,but want to stop the ones who do.bet they did not get the same response when they were bumming about there new t,3,s and stall traps as were getting from them

 

 

[holmsidelofts]

 

THIS is my last word on this roland remarks like that  make you look like a fool our pad is behind bobs and always has been you my friend are one of these people who comes across as one who thinks change is for the worst this thread has been kept going and the arguement wil carry on  by people like you and there are a few in our club think ets users are out to get one over on manual clocks ask any fancier  who has  gone onto ets wether they would go back onto manual 99.9%would say no simply because it is better for fancier AND pigeon.

 

[YOU BY YOUR LAST REMARKS ARE INFERING THAT MYSELF AND OTHERS  WOULD DO ANYTHING TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE AND I FIND THAT INSULTING FOR MYSELF AND THE ETC YOU ARE REFERRING TO END OF]

 

Well said mate i find it very insulting to, but thats how rolland is im afraid.

 

[Roland]

Well said Rose, 100%. But sadly some deliberately overlook realism and truth when it suits!

 

And vander mungo, no one wants to stop progress, or of ones getting ahead! Get Real.

2/3rds of the fancier just want them to be satisfied with the extra bonus that they have, for them to be HAPPY with the bonuses and quicke timings, and a great help in not getting birs 'Trap Shy' etc. AND that they can, and are able to move ahead. To improve etc. etc. They just don't see why their birds have to enter, and / or contain / refrain a bird whilst others who already have the upperhand, and ALSO the privalegde of not having to go into their' loft even when they are there, when they have to! Simple eh!

So now how is that stopping progress  :-/