Alen Gibb

I believe Bath Racecourse is no longer a racepoint. The Bath racepoint on the RPRA website is at Swainswick.

The name’s Alen by the way. I have three bays on my loft, each designed around my trapping system with the pads inside the bays. I cannot lower my pads in order for the birds to drop through bobs on to the pads because that would leave insufficient space for the birds to fly from the loft. I would need completely new bays at a cost of around £400. Don’t make uninformed comments about things you don’t know about. The original rule was not unjust – just poorly put together but that it is not the fault of the fancier. A rule is a rule, however poorly worded and everyone is obliged to follow that rule as it is worded. I have no doubt that the ‘spirit’ of the rule was quite basic – a bird should not be allowed to clocked merely by alighting on a landing board or other external surface. I fully agree with that and can see no argument. The new rule implied that the bird had to be confined within the loft or trap This of course would have lead to the absolutely farcical situation where a fancier flying to open door with his pads in a corridor would have to close the door after each bird before it could be clocked. This led to some debate at the March meeting which resulted in a clarification. It was decided that so long as, at the time of clocking, the pigeon is inside the loft, then it is legally clocked. I have no problem with that. In effect the clarification negates the fact that a bird must be confined. When my birds are clocked they are inside the loft but, as with the open door fancier, they are not confined. Is it fair? Probably not. What is in pigeon racing? Is it fair that for years I trapped via let boards and sputniks when my mates had stall traps? No – but it didn’t bother me – it was my choice and, at the time, my pocket didn’t allow for the expense. Is it fair that the old and disabled have to catch their birds with difficulty when they are competing with young and fit fanciers who sometimes have two, three or more helpers at the loft? No it’s not. Is it fair that with the new clarification, the open door fancier can have his bird fly straight into the loft and land on his pads to be clocked while mine is still on the landing board deciding on whether to go through the tunnels or not? No it’s not – but again it doesn’t bother me. The important thing is that our birds have arrived home and have entered the loft – confined or not. Finally Roland, I really admire people like you – having spent hundreds on a timing system I must applaud your motives for not using it because it gave you an unfair advantage over manual clockers. I can’t think of many who would do that – fair play to you.

Roland - you are completely missing the point. Hundreds have purchased or designed traps which complied with the original rule. I have no idea what 'the spirit' of the rule was but I complied with it. The spirit of the drink drive laws is that you shouldn't drink and drive - the law on the part of the police must be carried out to the letter and, even if you're blind drunk and they haven't followed the correct procedures, you'll get away with it 'on a technicality'. But I suppose all you people who go on about the 'spirit of the rule' wouldn't take advantage of a technicality if you got caught! IF I had to change my system (and I don't think I will need to) it would cost me in the region of £400 - "I don't want a 'botched up job" on my loft and so cannot simply alter my current traps. If I knew how to post photos I would show you. I am not interested in short 'flapping' races and never expect to get multiple arrivals - I often have only one bird read when others below me want four or more read. I did not buy ETS for an advantage in timing; it's nice to win but I get my pleasure from seeing my birds home in a reasonable time. ETS saves me from stressing the birds, saves me writing out entry sheets and gives me an accurate records of my birds' arrival times. The fact I might save a few seconds means nothing to me - I usually need to save minutes rather than seconds even on short blow homes! Have the good grace to accept someone else's point of view especially someone who you don't know and whose character and integrity as regards pigeon racing has never been questioned.

Roland - whoever you are - I am not a cheat. I have spent good money on fitting my loft with traps which complied with the original rule. I believe they still comply. I would welcome any one to object to anything I might win in the coming seasons. I strongly believe in complying with rules and I am sure that my set-up would not be faulted should the need ever arise. Try not to insult people with unfounded accusations.

Read it again Tony - where a bird goes through an open door and is then clocked there will be no need to close the door behind it. I take the view that a folding landing board which is used to close the loft is also a door.

The way I read it is that most if not all the commercial traps which have been sold do comply with the new rule if you regard a folding landing board capable of closing the loft to be a 'door'. Provided the ETS sensors are inside the loft the bird will be legally clocked whether or not the 'door' is closed behind it. JMO but I am sticking to it until proved otherwise. As an ETS official of my club I am advising all members of my thoughts.

Sprint races are silly and meaningless to me personally but I have every respect for those who think differently. I am sure it is very difficult to consistently win these short races and to be successful you must be dedicated - they just don't interest me at all - although it is always nice to win at any distance, which doesn't happen very often for me!

Unikon - bought myself - so much easier for the officials to use

Always had that trouble with sputniks - got bob wires now across ETS tunnels - some can still get out - what will we do to comply with the new rule 241?!

Same thing happened in Cornwall a few months back - buzzard taking a Jack Russell

My mate has plastic decoys and moves them around. He also has a rotating amber light - hasn't made the slightest difference - still plagued by sparrow-hawks. One SH unfortunately killed herself on a window whilst attacking his birds but was replaced by another within 24 hours.

Mate of mine ordered a vacuum from B & R back in September - not delivered - kept promising 'in the next 10 days' - it never arrived. He asked for his money back just before Christmas but has still not received his refund.

The race programme was chosen yesterday, however information from the RPRA yesterday said that no liberation sites had been confirmed by the French authorities so it would be advisable to select a second choice in case the first choice was not available, we were also informed that there was a possibility that Nantes would be back on the list. Race programme Old Birds St Malo or Vire Messac or Tours Nantes or Poitiers Tarbes international Saintes Young birds Lessay or Cherbourg young birds only St Malo or Vire old hens and special A ring race

If you win a prize presumably you are a winner

If you win a prize presumably you are a winner

Go to www.pigeon-ets.com everythings on there

I think someone here is a bit economical with the truth or has misheard something - if you have a problem with local councils and ask the RPRA for advice they could well advise you to contact a Mr Ron Shirley. Mr Shirley is a Chartered Architect who also happens to be a pigeon fancier and SW Region committee member and he specialises in representing fanciers with planning and enforcement problems. He offers discounted prices for RPRA members and advertises each year in the BHW Stud Book - this year he is on Page 448. No way would he or anybody else for that matter charge £1500 for writing a letter. Suggest you get facts right before publishing.

Haven't

Seeing a show loft at Blackpool or anywhere else is one thing - will you get the same quality of materials when you buy one? A bit like these large furniture stores really when you choose something in the showroom and then have to wait weeks for one to be delivered. Tranter for me every time.

The chips are supplied by the company you bought the ETS from (Unikon, Bricon etc etc) - same as the original clip-on rings

An honest & trustworthy vendor, long before I would look at the pigeon

On the face of it a great idea but I would think there is not a chance of succeeding in Court. You would have to prove 'on the balance of probabilities' that a peregrine was responsible. They wouldn't take just your word, there would have to be corroboration perhaps in the form of photographs/film of the attack. Then, because you were suing the council you would have to prove that the bird was one which the council had approved to be located on their property and not another passing through. As I said, a great idea but in practice you've got no chance. Sorry to be negative but I'm thinking of your pocket!

Our birds don't get the chances of some of you guys - our 9 race YB programme totals 860 miles to me! Don't know if that's a good or bad thing but I would like my YBs to have a bit more time on the wing.

I understand there is an issue with some clubs regarding the time signal with Unikon - our club is in a converted container (all metal) - we have never had a problem.

I placed the following post on another forum a few weeks back in the hope it may have been useful to those wishing to purchase an ETS system. It goes off this thread a little because it only involved my opinions on Unikon and Bricon - not Taurus. The post generated various responses but ended up in a slanging match between a couple of members which resulted in the thread being locked. I post it here for your information. I have often seen threads on here from those asking which ETS is best. Many of the answers simply say, in so many words, ‘Bricon every time’ or ‘Nothing to compare with Unikon’. This is not helpful. The following observations I have made since operating both systems in my club may be useful to those still wishing to choose between the two makes. (I have no knowledge of the other systems on the market and my own belief is that those will always be in the minority – Bricon and Unikon without doubt are the market leaders). I would base my thoughts on a basic system with two 2-field pads and a pocket clock enabling the fancier to continue timing in when he has gone to the club – the Bricon Plus and the Unikon Champ PC series. Price: Bricon is slightly cheaper but it should be noted that if the fancier wants the complete system enabling him to received texts of bird arrivals and the ability to link his clock to his own computer for printing purposes, the Unikon option is considerably cheaper than Bricon. I personally believe that the prices of all ETS systems are extortionate. Build Quality: The Unikon equipment appears more robust and of a higher build quality than Bricon. Design: The Bricon clock is of a small design and can easily be fitted to any wall of the loft. The Unikon however is larger and must be placed on a flat surface to accommodate the Pocket Clock. The contact-free Unikon Pocket clock has got to be better than the Bricon Speedy but there is one big drawback – in order to be linked to a Bricon Club System, if the Club has not got a Unikon Club System, the fancier must take his loft clock to the Club, thus defeating the object of being able to clock birds whilst away from the loft. The Bricon Speedy can easily be linked to a Unikon Club System by use of the Unives cable leaving the Bricon Plus in the loft to clock birds. Basketting: IMO the Unikon is superior – the marker and the clock used for read-outs are separate making it easier for officials to check entries. The Bricon functions are all in the same ‘box’ making it awkward for the marker and basket official to both mark the bird and read the details. Clocking-in: In the loft, both systems do ‘what it says on the tin’ when it comes to clocking birds. Menus & Read-outs: The menus and read outs of the Unikon product appear superior to Bricon as do the Unikon kepypad on the Loft Clock and Club System ETS Rings: Up to 2009 Bricon offer a better option in that their small clip-on rings are more convenient and much less cumbersome than Unikon. However, as from 2010 Unikon will supply small clip-on rings for use in the new combi rings being supplied by the RPRA. I understand these are already in use in Scotland. I cannot comment on the reliability of any ring design. Ring Assignment: My own experiences of using both sytems show that (to me) Unikon is far superior to Bricon. The computer software looks and feels more modern and easier to understand. Pads: I would make little comment about the pads. The Bricon may have a slight advantage if you are in need of a system where many birds can be on the pad at the same time to be clocked but that doesn’t interest me at all. After Sales/Advice: I have found both Mark Palmer of Bricon and Ray Knight of Unikon to be most helpful when speaking on the telephone, doing their best to ensure queries are answered. I have found both organisations to be somewhat slow when replying to emails. All in all, for the fancier who does not want to get involved in all of the technicalities of ring assignment, race marking and results, and who wants the smallest available clock to fix in his loft, Bricon could be the answer but for me I have gone for Unikon. To me the build quality is superior, the keypad and read outs are superior and, for administrative purposes and ring assignment the Club System software is far superior. I hope this may be useful to those still deciding on which system to buy. I am not an agent for any ETS company and have tried to give an honest opinion. If you see any inaccuracies in what I have stated please correct me. Both products appear to give excellent results and in the end it is down to personal preference.