Has The Time Come To Stop

[JohnQuinn]

Get good racing if u let Doos go in the afternoon that’s fact. Get guys that want to sit till it’s fine to lib

 

If no one races in the morning Andrew the raptors will be hungry in the afternoon so the problem will simply follow the liberation times. Jmo

[Bobby4]

Get good racing if u let Doos go in the afternoon that’s fact. Get guys that want to sit till it’s fine to lib

 

Andrew have a look at the web cams on Percy they'r attacking from morning till nyt their is no safe time to lib birds it all goes down to luck a thot a was drinking something strong but a wouldn't mind some off yours lol

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Ayrshire North Road Federation is a very small Fed with just over 30 Members. The largest send is around 700 pigeons. There are BOP on the North Road. The Federation stretches 60 miles from North to South. The races are short sprints. I am the shortest flier, the longest being 60 miles further than me. We start around 30 miles to me and after 4 or 5 races I am still below 100 miles. The velocities are slower at times because being a sprint race, depending on the wind and drag, they can overshoot. Another reason could be liberating too early and racing through the hills they meet banks of mist and are shut out causing them to have to re-route.

Having said all that, returns are generally good. Whether it would stay the same if others turned North is a different matter because, as has been stated, BOP follow the food. It has been mooted previously, I remember Baz Nicol highlighting it, that following a route for a set period of time then changing to a different route should give better returns because the peregrines have migrated. I doubt this would work now since we know we are at near saturation levels in some areas.

Latebred training through the months of September to November would help.

[Andrew suckle]

Andrew have a look at the web cams on Percy they'r attacking from morning till nyt their is no safe time to lib birds it all goes down to luck a thot a was drinking something strong but a wouldn't mind some off yours lol

Lanarkshire needs a race controller that knows what he’s doing

[Bobby4]

Who ever it is an good luck to anybody that takes it but a think we will have the same result .m8

[Valiant Fifer]

This is one of the best topics that's been on this site for a while guys and I've been watching it with interest and will continue to do so.

 

Whether we race ybs or just train them we will still get hit by the Perigrines!

 

Generally speaking the guys who do the most training normally get better returns in most yrs although theres exceptions to this.As things stand I plan next year to train all ybs say (about 30-40) out to 35mls and put say 12/14 for example to the side and not race them just maybe going to a few more tosses with the ones that are racing. That way I guarantee that I will have ylgs for the following season. Hopefuly I'll still have a descent team of ybs that have bn raced but we all know how doubtful that is. Certainly need a bit of luck with ybs in the training and racing trying to get away from the murderers of the sky.

I fully expect the ybs that were not raced to go all the way to the last inland race. They may not go every wk but I want 350 -400 mls out of them. They may have it easy as unraced ybs but as ylgs I dont molly coddle them. Some might even end up across the channel if their still there after the longest inland race. I've done this several times with unraced ybs at the ylgs stage. Have even got them from across the channel as ylg late breds and scored with them and went on to be good birds.

 

My own personal thoughts are you can get unraced ybs and late breds out to at least 200 -300mls as ylgs provided they are from good birds soundly reared and well trained in their yr of birth. I dont nesscesary race these unraced ylgs every wk, I'm not frightened to miss a race or two with them.If there fit enough and good enough they will do it and occasionaly may surprise you. They might not do well as ylgs but dont worry they will catch up as two n three years olds. Having said all that I believe in most cases ylgs that were raced as ybs will be clocked more and win more than ylgs that weren't. Personally I'm not worried about that as long as the show as 2yo n 3yo pigeons.

I've got some Late breds that I hope to train in Oct /Nov out to somewhere between 25,-35mls and I still expect them to fly at least 200- 250mls next yr. If they come out of that I will try them at either 300 or the longest inland race 350 - 400mls. Some of you may ask where do you get the confidence for that. Personaly it's not a case of that and have done it many times and dont think it's too difficult. If i can do it i think others can no problem.

 

Untrained ybs will have one or two things going for them.

1 They weren't hashed about as ybs and missed all the disease they have to mix with.

2 they are more mature 3 Dont have to worry about the moult like natural ybs.4 They have a nest box. 6 They have a mate or ybs or eggs to fly to. All they lack is a bit of experience from race day.

Look what's happening on race day there getting harassed all over the place the length n breadth of the uk. While old birds get it too it's not as bad as what the ybs have to go through. Hence why I'm not too worried if they dont get raced as long as their trained. In April and May ylgs dont get as much hassle as ybs In june/july/august.

While i do conceede that its maybe beneficial to get a few tosses from the transporter or a race or two for experience of coming out the transporter it's not completely necessary to race ybs 200 - 300mls just to prove that their good, I dont think it proves it.

 

As I said above about racing unraced ybs n late breds next my chances would vastly improve along with everyone else if someone would give me a PM with a list of products I could give to my unsung decoy birds which I could liberate before letting go the trainers. If everyone did this things might improve and the pigeons would come through the race routes a lot better. Also I'd like to see federations with ex amout of unsung decoys on board liberated before the main convoy is relesed. This might help on race days, may feds could have their own private lift for this or we could have a few volunteers donating birds for this purpose! Would like to hear more ideas on this or anything else fanciers think will help make returns on race days better.

 

Like I said above if we dont do nothing then nothing will change. The results will be the same Horrendous infact they'll get worse the time to act is NOW!

[Dooheed 5]

Haha honestly I don't think there is .Percy goes were the grub is. started off on west an they have spread ryt across the country but I do believe their are not saturated the north no racing birds comes down the west from the north .their is hardly a bird in the sky up that way .a would gamble an say you would not have the carnage we are having no chance jmo

If you think Racing pigeons are the only prey bird of Peregrines your very much mistaken Pal

[Valiant Fifer]

If you think Racing pigeons are the only prey bird of Peregrines your very much mistaken Pal

correct m8 they kill migrating birds the lot! Basically what we are seeing is the acceptance of the rspb or BOP enthusiasts even Mps for this carnage to carry on.

They think its acceptable for Percy to go unchecked for yrs and to kill almost every bird in the sky. It's simple when theres no pigeons to eat they'll eat other birds when will the general public wake up to this! These people must be

Fanatical loonies to give them 24hr surveillance protection. Theve got more protection than kids have from Peadofiles!

[Novice]

Talking to a fella today m8, he got 38/39 from 120 MILES at weekend. He says returns are usually great but velocities always slower than expected

I only need to look how their entries drop during old bird racing to see the statistics I need. Not a conversation with fanciers who are prone to exaggeration. That remark applies to all fanciers. Any decisions need to be based on recorded facts.Writing these 4 sentences took a great deal of self control on my behalf avoiding decrying an organisation which has divided fanciers in Ayrshire and led to reduced competition.

One factor which has not been mentioned so far is the fact that, during the later part of the season we have fewer hours of daylight available in which to liberate our pigeons. Most federations are trying to liberate in a small window to maximise the chance of the birds homing on the day. This coupled with the fact that North and South organisations are intermingled can only lead to clashing.

 

Yes the peregrine falcon is the biggest single contributor to our problems.

As David Jamieson pointed out sprint pigeons are less likely to work home than traditional Scottish Pigeons. Horses for courses I believe.

[Valiant Fifer]

A couple of good points there!

[hotrod]

I only need to look how their entries drop during old bird racing to see the statistics I need. Not a conversation with fanciers who are prone to exaggeration. That remark applies to all fanciers. Any decisions need to be based on recorded facts.Writing these 4 sentences took a great deal of self control on my behalf avoiding decrying an organisation which has divided fanciers in Ayrshire and led to reduced competition.

One factor which has not been mentioned so far is the fact that, during the later part of the season we have fewer hours of daylight available in which to liberate our pigeons. Most federations are trying to liberate in a small window to maximise the chance of the birds homing on the day. This coupled with the fact that North and South organisations are intermingled can only lead to clashing.

 

Yes the peregrine falcon is the biggest single contributor to our problems.

As David Jamieson pointed out sprint pigeons are less likely to work home than traditional Scottish Pigeons. Horses for courses I believe.

Robert I’m the very same I’ve to bite my tongue many a time on this site , folk that know absolutely nothing about pigeons handing out advice to others . In fact my wee pug bonnie who is two knows more about pigeons than some , she can tell the difference from one of mine to a feral .she chases off the ferals .

[Bobby4]

If you think Racing pigeons are the only prey bird of Peregrines your very much mistaken Pal

 

Your ryt but have a look at a perr nest an you will see the evidence i have an seen it. A dont recal saying in my quotes that they are the only prey. Pal

[Bobby4]

This is one of the best topics that's been on this site for a while guys and I've been watching it with interest and will continue to do so.

 

Whether we race ybs or just train them we will still get hit by the Perigrines! Well said good reading an sendible points

 

Generally speaking the guys who do the most training normally get better returns in most yrs although theres exceptions to this.As things stand I plan next year to train all ybs say (about 30-40) out to 35mls and put say 12/14 for example to the side and not race them just maybe going to a few more tosses with the ones that are racing. That way I guarantee that I will have ylgs for the following season. Hopefuly I'll still have a descent team of ybs that have bn raced but we all know how doubtful that is. Certainly need a bit of luck with ybs in the training and racing trying to get away from the murderers of the sky.

I fully expect the ybs that were not raced to go all the way to the last inland race. They may not go every wk but I want 350 -400 mls out of them. They may have it easy as unraced ybs but as ylgs I dont molly coddle them. Some might even end up across the channel if their still there after the longest inland race. I've done this several times with unraced ybs at the ylgs stage. Have even got them from across the channel as ylg late breds and scored with them and went on to be good birds.

 

My own personal thoughts are you can get unraced ybs and late breds out to at least 200 -300mls as ylgs provided they are from good birds soundly reared and well trained in their yr of birth. I dont nesscesary race these unraced ylgs every wk, I'm not frightened to miss a race or two with them.If there fit enough and good enough they will do it and occasionaly may surprise you. They might not do well as ylgs but dont worry they will catch up as two n three years olds. Having said all that I believe in most cases ylgs that were raced as ybs will be clocked more and win more than ylgs that weren't. Personally I'm not worried about that as long as the show as 2yo n 3yo pigeons.

I've got some Late breds that I hope to train in Oct /Nov out to somewhere between 25,-35mls and I still expect them to fly at least 200- 250mls next yr. If they come out of that I will try them at either 300 or the longest inland race 350 - 400mls. Some of you may ask where do you get the confidence for that. Personaly it's not a case of that and have done it many times and dont think it's too difficult. If i can do it i think others can no problem.

 

Untrained ybs will have one or two things going for them.

1 They weren't hashed about as ybs and missed all the disease they have to mix with.

2 they are more mature 3 Dont have to worry about the moult like natural ybs.4 They have a nest box. 6 They have a mate or ybs or eggs to fly to. All they lack is a bit of experience from race day.

Look what's happening on race day there getting harassed all over the place the length n breadth of the uk. While old birds get it too it's not as bad as what the ybs have to go through. Hence why I'm not too worried if they dont get raced as long as their trained. In April and May ylgs dont get as much hassle as ybs In june/july/august.

While i do conceede that its maybe beneficial to get a few tosses from the transporter or a race or two for experience of coming out the transporter it's not completely necessary to race ybs 200 - 300mls just to prove that their good, I dont think it proves it.

 

As I said above about racing unraced ybs n late breds next my chances would vastly improve along with everyone else if someone would give me a PM with a list of products I could give to my unsung decoy birds which I could liberate before letting go the trainers. If everyone did this things might improve and the pigeons would come through the race routes a lot better. Also I'd like to see federations with ex amout of unsung decoys on board liberated before the main convoy is relesed. This might help on race days, may feds could have their own private lift for this or we could have a few volunteers donating birds for this purpose! Would like to hear more ideas on this or anything else fanciers think will help make returns on race days better.

 

Like I said above if we dont do nothing then nothing will change. The results will be the same Horrendous infact they'll get worse the time to act is NOW!

 

Very good points an a start to which may help to sort our problem

[ally mac]

I for one will not be racing ybs next year down south obviously ther more perrigrines south off Glasgow there would be no reason for perrigrines north off Glasgow .as thee no racing pigeons there.an as we know that is there main source off protein.

Unfortunately that's far from the case. They are all the way up the country, literally everywhere.

[Bobby4]

Unfortunately that's far from the case. They are all the way up the country, literally everywhere.

 

I know they are the point iam making is what i have found over the years i used to train down the m74 until it got impossible so i changed an started training to the east bathgate livingston area an was great all birds home together never a problem.now a cant train there either .i had a few good years training out from the east.an now its as bad as m74 .i have been trainin from glasgow north aa not been bad.so i will stick to it until it changes .iam on here to put up anything that will help if no good then ive tried .i will await your comments an have a look atb

[Bobby4]

On the subject iam looking for any answers as to my knowledge the rspb have decimated the country with thes bop an that came from a falconer who runs his own business.the rspb arent stupid ppl .does anyone know off any breeding boxes that have been put into place in north off glasgow as i know plenty south off it .why ? Would be interesting to hear.thanks

[lordcornwallis]

Even keeping young birds is becoming impossible with young bird sickness every year never mind trying to race them at the end of the day its up to the fancier what he wants to do .

[Delboy]

I only need to look how their entries drop during old bird racing to see the statistics I need. Not a conversation with fanciers who are prone to exaggeration. That remark applies to all fanciers. Any decisions need to be based on recorded facts.Writing these 4 sentences took a great deal of self control on my behalf avoiding decrying an organisation which has divided fanciers in Ayrshire and led to reduced competition.

One factor which has not been mentioned so far is the fact that, during the later part of the season we have fewer hours of daylight available in which to liberate our pigeons. Most federations are trying to liberate in a small window to maximise the chance of the birds homing on the day. This coupled with the fact that North and South organisations are intermingled can only lead to clashing.

 

Yes the peregrine falcon is the biggest single contributor to our problems.

As David Jamieson pointed out sprint pigeons are less likely to work home than traditional Scottish Pigeons. Horses for courses I believe.

 

You are totally missing the point I am trying to make Robert. I am not interested in politics on this occasion, I am only interested in the best outcome for our pigeons. I've stated that this fancier was getting good returns from the route they are flying, nothing more. I'm looking for solutions to our plight, without political views. You know the entries of every fed drastically diminish as the season goes on. The theory of long distance birds ( Old Scottish Strain ) homing better than sprint ones may hold water but has no credence after these pigeons have been attacked by BOP in my opinion. The proof of this is in the amount of rings bought each year by fanciers known to have distance birds ( myself included )The BOP is undoubtedly the most destructive thing the pigeon fancy has ever faced, apart from the fanciers themselves. It will, if possible, get even worse, that's guaranteed. Lets get it sorted !!!

[Novice]

You are totally missing the point I am trying to make Robert. I am not interested in politics on this occasion, I am only interested in the best outcome for our pigeons. I've stated that this fancier was getting good returns from the route they are flying, nothing more. I'm looking for solutions to our plight, without political views. You know the entries of every fed drastically diminish as the season goes on. The theory of long distance birds ( Old Scottish Strain ) homing better than sprint ones may hold water but has no credence after these pigeons have been attacked by BOP in my opinion. The proof of this is in the amount of rings bought each year by fanciers known to have distance birds ( myself included )The BOP is undoubtedly the most destructive thing the pigeon fancy has ever faced, apart from the fanciers themselves. It will, if possible, get even worse, that's guaranteed. Lets get it sorted !!!

No Derek I didn’t miss the point. Treating the symptom of any problem is only a short term fix. The root cause needs to be addressed that is the only way to a long term solution. Personally I would rather not race than turn North with the cop out brigade.

[Valiant Fifer]

In my post above the one where I type error when I typed out half a book I printed untrained ybs and 4/5 pointers after that which may benefit them.

It should have read Unraced ybs but ones which were trained, hope that's clear now.

 

This thread/topic has now some 8,500 views

from when it was first entered a few days ago so already its creating a bit of interest. Looking forward to reading more points which we can take on board to see if we can alleviate the terrible losses to our birds each year. The more things we can think of and put in the Think Tank the better.

We cant keep going down the same road simple. This is the biggest problem in our sport. The only people that realy care about this is us fanciers. Let's not wait on outside influences to help us. We've gotta do it ourselves cause knowone will do it for us! When can we get the wheels in motion ?

[Delboy]

No Derek I didn’t miss the point. Treating the symptom of any problem is only a short term fix. The root cause needs to be addressed that is the only way to a long term solution. Personally I would rather not race than turn North with the cop out brigade.

 

Yes, address the root cause. That's a no brainer but who says you need to join Ayrshire North Road to fly that route? Any organisation can fly any route they choose. If it helps the OVERALL PIGEONS SURVIVAL RATE, its definitely worth thinking about.

 

I want to fly south like anybody else in Scotland but without action, its just going to be pointless imo.

[Bobby4]

Is that not kopping out just dont race ?rather than try another route an if it doesnt wotk back to the drawing board.

 

Is that not kopping out just dont race ?rather than try another route an if it doesnt wotk back to the drawing board.

 

Is that not kopping out just dont race ?rather than try another route an if it doesnt wotk back to the drawing board.dont race an we have same problem next year.

 

Is that not kopping out just dont race ?rather than try another route an if it doesnt wotk back to the drawing board.dont race an we have same problem next year.

 

Is that not kopping out just dont race ?rather than try another route an if it doesnt wotk back to the drawing board.dont race an we have same problem next year.

[Bobby4]

Yes, address the root cause. That's a no brainer but who says you need to join Ayrshire North Road to fly that route? Any organisation can fly any route they choose. If it helps the OVERALL PIGEONS SURVIVAL RATE, its definitely worth thinking about.

 

I want to fly south like anybody else in Scotland but without action, its just going to be pointless imo.

[JohnQuinn]

Facts.

Su 02 L 10889 untrained/raced yb. 9 races as a yearling missing the 2 longest races, but lifted 11 weeks Accy from the comeback race the week before our channel race.

Paired her up July took 2 late breds 1 of which Su 03 L 11569, "Told You So" untrained yb.

8 races as a yearling out to Maudstone 361mls carrying 4 nest flights lifting £388 that after taking pools in the yrlg Derby.

Went on to race until 7yrs old winning the club channel race twice.

Latebred hen from him is dam to Su 08 L 8514 untrained/raced latebred.

That hen now known as Equipoise won1st Club 1st Se 2nd Open Fed 1st LSC 1sr Sec 1st Reg 19th Open SNFC Ypres 2010, scoring from the inland Nat before that race.

 

SU 14 L 4485, untrained/raced latebred, 5 races in her life, no training in 2016, won 1st Club 9th sec 61st Open SNFC Reims 565mls in a c**t of a race.

Ybs don't need hammered down the road to turn out good 0ld birds.

[Valiant Fifer]

Facts.

Su 02 L 10889 untrained/raced yb. 9 races as a yearling missing the 2 longest races, but lifted 11 weeks Accy from the comeback race the week before our channel race.

Paired her up July took 2 late breds 1 of which Su 03 L 11569, "Told You So" untrained yb.

8 races as a yearling out to Maudstone 361mls carrying 4 nest flights lifting £388 that after taking pools in the yrlg Derby.

Went on to race until 7yrs old winning the club channel race twice.

Latebred hen from him is dam to Su 08 L 8514 untrained/raced latebred.

That hen now known as Equipoise won1st Club 1st Se 2nd Open Fed 1st LSC 1sr Sec 1st Reg 19th Open SNFC Ypres 2010, scoring from the inland Nat before that race.

 

SU 14 L 4485, untrained/raced latebred, 5 races in her life, no training in 2016, won 1st Club 9th sec 61st Open SNFC Reims 565mls in a c**t of a race.

Ybs don't need hammered down the road to turn out good 0ld birds.

Good honest post John!

This is the kind if thing I'm talking about using common sense with pigeons!