Has The Time Come To Stop

[blue pied]

There would be some greetin April/May every old bird season when the young went doon like snaw aff a dyke lol

100% especially in they east winds

[Kyleakin Lofts]

There would be some greetin April/May every old bird season when the young went doon like snaw aff a dyke lol

 

And that is why the programme would have to be looked at very carefully, with perhaps a midweek programme designed for these pigeons starting in the better weather, albeit not guaranteed, around late May, June, early July.

 

If we were not racing our Young Birds to save them from BOP, then we have to allow for their inexperience as Yearlings. Yes, a form of cossetting, but dividends could be there when they are mature Two Year Olds.

 

Have we the patience and desire to attempt something new or do we just want to carry on with the same old same?

[Paul Mac 31]

There is no doubt Young bird racing is now getting harder every year, and that’s not just in Scotland it’s across the full UK, some of the losses south of the border I’ve heard this year would make the hairs stand up. As is the case in the “ premier league “ Belgium ,with fanciers losing 100s from their loft and training/racing

 

the overall main factor is the BOP situation, I think we all can agree on that, however we have never helped ourselves, I’ve sat and listened now basically all my life to the same stories and what we should do, etc etc, every time it’s even suggested at union or fed level, ( where it has done to be remotely effective) it’s instant scare mongering tactics , jail,, fines ,,police,,reported etc etc , you will put the Fed in bother ,,,blah blah blah,,,,

 

The one man band stuff is all fine and well, and more power to them but realistically that’s like firing a pea shooter to the moon. In terms of the size of the problem we face.

 

Outside the BOP situation there is also massive factors that are certainly are making YB racing even harder.

 

One being uneducated Ybs, all they do is cause mass panic at a liberation ( and yip no doubt at this point some will shout in with a bird that did xyz, untrained) but let’s look at the big picture 1/500 if your lucky of untrained, unraced and basically uneducated will achieve a good level of success in their future.

 

I’ve never been hard on my youngsters in terms of racing, most my best Ybs are by after 3 races, once they had the experience of leaving a big convoy, doing the right sort of times .

also training well.,, basically showing they have brains.

But they are Schooled very very hard!!!

Pigeons are no different from any other racing animal , horses, dogs all need schooled to enhance and improve their basic natural instincts.

 

Take the best son of frankel don’t train it or school him,, slap a saddle on it , fire him on a track ,, good luck finding a jockey to ride it

Not racing YBS is not the answer , Infact it will just be detrimental to old bird racing

 

The other factor is sickness and unhealthy, unfit Ybs. Every year I see and here the same stories XYZ has sickness or Ybs dying ,, week later in the basket, if ever their was a case for your own baskets for Yb racing it’s now.

 

Poor decisions and controlling, some of the calls in all the feds this year have been a down right disgrace. if they don’t get a good start in yb racing , esp in their first race of their lives , well your asking for bother, Lanarkshire have had 2 absolute shockers 2 years in a row In The first yb race...,,,fact.

 

Race points,,,,honestly I don’t think a bit of homework goes into these programs at times,,,take Hexham for example ,, anyone that can read a map can see that it lies in a valley that runs east to west ,,, so instantly the ybs can’t head north they have to decide right or left. Hence we get reports of birds not clearing the site , and we all know they more they mess around the more likely they will get hit sooner or later,,, trapped in a valley,, confused because they can’t go north, and now getting set upon by a family of predators.

 

The sad story here is that it’s all in our hands and it always has been...

Changes or changing,,, it’s the most scary word for pigeon fanciers, I’ve watch generations of my family now come and go and still the sport hasn’t changed it’s stood still, and god for bid you should try an influence change,,,,,,,,so we are all to blame, over 50/60 you are more to blame than anyone , As you have done absolutely nothing for decades now.

 

 

Positive Ideas ?

 

Like Tam said

False libs

( painted or not, of course I’d personally have every bird done but that’s another argument)

 

cross over old bird racing into yb racing with old hens, creating more confidence in the convoy to leave the sites effectively

( mother taking walking you to school theory)

 

Race programs that repeat the same points for 5 years at a time,,, so they are there as young bird,,yearling,, old birds,,,

(Again all confidence gaining clearing well)

 

Home work on points and programs ,

(it’s taking Lanarkshire 2 months to get to 200 miles as old birds ,,,, not to mention a month to get 100 miles with Ybs)

And they wonder why in nationals statistically they are so far behind

 

 

 

For me we stand as a crossroads as a sport in Scotland

It needs a Total revamp , we are a cash rich sport, that’s a fact ,the top unions and Feds are sitting with bank balances that could choke a horse,,,,and are doing nothing positive with it ,,

 

 

All the best and hopeful safe racing for the remainder of the season across the country

P Mac

[Kyleakin Lofts]

There is no doubt Young bird racing is now getting harder every year, and that’s not just in Scotland it’s across the full UK, some of the losses south of the border I’ve heard this year would make the hairs stand up. As is the case in the “ premier league “ Belgium ,with fanciers losing 100s from their loft and training/racing

 

the overall main factor is the BOP situation, I think we all can agree on that, however we have never helped ourselves, I’ve sat and listened now basically all my life to the same stories and what we should do, etc etc, every time it’s even suggested at union or fed level, ( where it has done to be remotely effective) it’s instant scare mongering tactics , jail,, fines ,,police,,reported etc etc , you will put the Fed in bother ,,,blah blah blah,,,,

 

The one man band stuff is all fine and well, and more power to them but realistically that’s like firing a pea shooter to the moon. In terms of the size of the problem we face.

 

Outside the BOP situation there is also massive factors that are certainly are making YB racing even harder.

 

One being uneducated Ybs, all they do is cause mass panic at a liberation ( and yip no doubt at this point some will shout in with a bird that did xyz, untrained) but let’s look at the big picture 1/500 if your lucky of untrained, unraced and basically uneducated will achieve a good level of success in their future.

 

I’ve never been hard on my youngsters in terms of racing, most my best Ybs are by after 3 races, once they had the experience of leaving a big convoy, doing the right sort of times .

also training well.,, basically showing they have brains.

But they are Schooled very very hard!!!

Pigeons are no different from any other racing animal , horses, dogs all need schooled to enhance and improve their basic natural instincts.

 

Take the best son of frankel don’t train it or school him,, slap a saddle on it , fire him on a track ,, good luck finding a jockey to ride it

Not racing YBS is not the answer , Infact it will just be detrimental to old bird racing

 

The other factor is sickness and unhealthy, unfit Ybs. Every year I see and here the same stories XYZ has sickness or Ybs dying ,, week later in the basket, if ever their was a case for your own baskets for Yb racing it’s now.

 

Poor decisions and controlling, some of the calls in all the feds this year have been a down right disgrace. if they don’t get a good start in yb racing , esp in their first race of their lives , well your asking for bother, Lanarkshire have had 2 absolute shockers 2 years in a row In The first yb race...,,,fact.

 

Race points,,,,honestly I don’t think a bit of homework goes into these programs at times,,,take Hexham for example ,, anyone that can read a map can see that it lies in a valley that runs east to west ,,, so instantly the ybs can’t head north they have to decide right or left. Hence we get reports of birds not clearing the site , and we all know they more they mess around the more likely they will get hit sooner or later,,, trapped in a valley,, confused because they can’t go north, and now getting set upon by a family of predators.

 

The sad story here is that it’s all in our hands and it always has been...

Changes or changing,,, it’s the most scary word for pigeon fanciers, I’ve watch generations of my family now come and go and still the sport hasn’t changed it’s stood still, and god for bid you should try an influence change,,,,,,,,so we are all to blame, over 50/60 you are more to blame than anyone , As you have done absolutely nothing for decades now.

 

 

Positive Ideas ?

 

Like Tam said

False libs

( painted or not, of course I’d personally have every bird done but that’s another argument)

 

cross over old bird racing into yb racing with old hens, creating more confidence in the convoy to leave the sites effectively

( mother taking walking you to school theory)

 

Race programs that repeat the same points for 5 years at a time,,, so they are there as young bird,,yearling,, old birds,,,

(Again all confidence gaining clearing well)

 

Home work on points and programs ,

(it’s taking Lanarkshire 2 months to get to 200 miles as old birds ,,,, not to mention a month to get 100 miles with Ybs)

And they wonder why in nationals statistically they are so far behind

 

 

 

For me we stand as a crossroads as a sport in Scotland

It needs a Total revamp , we are a cash rich sport, that’s a fact ,the top unions and Feds are sitting with bank balances that could choke a horse,,,,and are doing nothing positive with it ,,

 

 

All the best and hopeful safe racing for the remainder of the season across the country

P Mac

 

A good constructive post from a very experienced pigeon man.

 

Point 2 has been done in England for some time, to what extent I am not sure, it may just be certain races.

 

Point 3 makes a lot of sense particularly if in conjunction with Point 4 and this could be furthered due to the good work you done earlier in the season in starting the Combine, albeit we only managed joint conveying, but that at least, is a positive and a building brick for the future.

 

I think all of these are reliant on Point 1. We have to find an effective method of dealing with the problem. When the pigeons "mill around" for whatever reason they send up a flare, "come and get us". Even if they don't "mill around", they are often sent into panic because of these attacks.

 

The SHU does have a good bank balance and over the last few years they have put money back into pigeons by keeping costs down and even reducing costs to previous years' rates.

 

I have been told that this needs tackled at Local Council level since it is they who rely on the local vote and it is they who have the powers to limit the nest sites, etc. I don't know the truth of this as yet, but hope to find out.

 

Perhaps, if someone who holds a lot of respect takes the "bull by the horns", as they have done before, some movement may arise from what, as John has already stated, has only been a talking shop.

[JohnQuinn]

I don't know why so few fancies know this but Linda Btookes worked tirelessly on the raptor problem many years ago. Lobbying local councils and local MP's. As a result of her hard work the subject was raised in Parliament, however these matters are given specific slots to be discussed, I believe this is the case with any out of the ordinary parliamentary business, so when it was raised there were 6 or 7 MP's present, the rest choosing not to attend through lack of interest or necessity to be there. When the MP did speak not a single reply came back other than the acknowledgement of the speaker that it was noted.

When guys like Ian Botham are on the news and in the papers speaking on behalf of the "gentry" and get nowhere it sort of points out how little consideration fanciers would be given. He was pointing out the income the country was losing as a result of there being no pheasants partridge or grouse to shoot by foreign visitors who contribute to the economy.

All in all We need to find a remedy and need to act together as one to achieve any fundamental change in the circumstances we find ourselves in now.

[yeboah]

Some very good points

Paul mc spot on regarding hexham I worked there at cousin's house glad Paul highlighted it as I'm not in your federation but liberating in valley that runs east to west I could never grasp

My club mate who used the trackers proved birds fly valley's where at all possible

When we liberated old birds at Worksop the tracker came through the valley at Leeds onto its line of flight west side of country hence Lanarkshire doos coming through Moffat

Young birds in poor health not recovered or taking sickness you see lofts of pace then not sending, you don't have to be a Philadelphia lawyer to figure that out

My own experience 0.1 percent of any unraced yb are any good

I've tried it got the medal

Last year's yb's we got hammered out of carnforth, I got 18/35 following week federation got hammered again out of charnock but the big losses were birds that had not went to carnforth

I got 17/18 that was because they had sorted themselves out previous week and knew the score

They must go every week and the best will survive

Each year birds that are left of same certain pairs that tells it's own story

Reason why I had massive clearance of non producing stock it's not luck that certain pairs yb's are still there come September

I get loads of yb strays in ,very very high percentage I would not give loft space

A wee example

Jimmy Dalgliesh from ecclefechan one of the finest national records in Scotland

Breeds 30

What's left after training goes to every single race in programme

What survives that goes to young bird national

What homes are wintered

He only has a very elite few

This year 3rd section maidstone

2nd and 3rd section gold cup

Outstanding with handful pigeons

But pigeons that have been sorted as youngster's not wrapped in cotton wool

If everyone adopted that method we would have better racing as those that did not have the constitution would fall by the wayside

After our disaster couple weeks ago I sent survivor's back and got 100% returns backing up Jimmy's tried and tested methods

[Jumbo]

Brilliant post Mike ,

[Arranview]

Great Post mick ðŸ‘

[walterboswell59]

there is nodout the falcon situation is horrendous but the sickness is a bigger problem with the youngbirds this year and ive no dout that its paramyxo related not youngbird sickness as we call it so people must be telling lies that they have vacinated or we have a big problem with the vaccine colombo vac in particular it will be nobilis for me from now on but what gets me is there are guys racing birds that have sickness in there loft which is shocking they think its ok if they just race the ones that look ok its not if one has it they all have it just some get it worse than the others just like humans so stopping racing for a few weeks might make your birds look a bit better but they are still carrying the disease and passing it on to healthy birds in the basket and its in every fed in Britain and has been for weeks no one gives a s t i do not believe its only myself that is seeing this

ive been saying it for weeks nearly every fed has dropped half or more of there birdage the falcons are adding to the problem by chasing sickbirds but as ive said before they are homing pigeons falcons are not getting them all the rest should get home next day next week or next month but they should get home wake up guys

[Delboy]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27468034/

 

Interesting reading

[novo10]

there is nodout the falcon situation is horrendous but the sickness is a bigger problem with the youngbirds this year and ive no dout that its paramyxo related not youngbird sickness as we call it so people must be telling lies that they have vacinated or we have a big problem with the vaccine colombo vac in particular it will be nobilis for me from now on but what gets me is there are guys racing birds that have sickness in there loft which is shocking they think its ok if they just race the ones that look ok its not if one has it they all have it just some get it worse than the others just like humans so stopping racing for a few weeks might make your birds look a bit better but they are still carrying the disease and passing it on to healthy birds in the basket and its in every fed in Britain and has been for weeks no one gives a s t i do not believe its only myself that is seeing this

ive been saying it for weeks nearly every fed has dropped half or more of there birdage the falcons are adding to the problem by chasing sickbirds but as ive said before they are homing pigeons falcons are not getting them all the rest should get home next day next week or next month but they should get home wake up guys

A canny believe your saying the youngbirds are getting lost because of sickness bottom line is they’re getting hounded at racepoint sand every 5 mile they will be getting hit as well they controllers not doing they’re homework doesn’t help them either

[walterboswell59]

A canny believe your saying the youngbirds are getting lost because of sickness bottom line is they’re getting hounded at racepoint sand every 5 mile they will be getting hit as well they controllers not doing they’re homework doesn’t help them either

look around the clubs and see how many men are not racing derek and how many they are sending and your right all the other factors to dont help but when homing pigeons cant home theres a reason and its not the ones the falcon gets wheres the rest why have they not turned up thousands have been lost the pass month where are they only a matter of time before deffra gets one picked up by a non fancier and racing is stopped already hearing of pigeons being seen with twisting necks watch this space its coming m8

[Delboy]

ONLY 3% of the pigeons sent to Catterick with the Glasgow fed got home in race time. That was 5 birds on the night, the winner doing around 20 mph. What happened to them ? My first pigeon at 6.40pm was fresh as paint ( was it down hiding ?) and my 2nd pigeon at 8.03pm was absolutely exhausted. What would you say caused this disaster. IMHO, it was BOP, nothing more. A lot of good points on this thread but the bottom line is, 'TALK IS CHEAP' action is required NOW.

[Bobby4]

ONLY 3% of the pigeons sent to Catterick with the Glasgow fed got home in race time. That was 5 birds on the night, the winner doing around 20 mph. What happened to them ? My first pigeon at 6.40pm was fresh as paint ( was it down hiding ?) and my 2nd pigeon at 8.03pm was absolutely exhausted. What would you say caused this disaster. IMHO, it was BOP, nothing more. A lot of good points on this thread but the bottom line is, 'TALK IS CHEAP' action is required NOW.

 

ONLY 3% of the pigeons sent to Catterick with the Glasgow fed got home in race time. That was 5 birds on the night, the winner doing around 20 mph. What happened to them ? My first pigeon at 6.40pm was fresh as paint ( was it down hiding ?) and my 2nd pigeon at 8.03pm was absolutely exhausted. What would you say caused this disaster. IMHO, it was BOP, nothing more. A lot of good points on this thread but the bottom line is, 'TALK IS CHEAP' action is required NOW.

[Bobby4]

 

A deff del we have always had sick pigeons but never had carnage like this year after year .

[Delboy]

A deff del we have always had sick pigeons but never had carnage like this year after year .

 

A wee meeting between officialdom is needed asap.

[Whitecap]

there is nodout the falcon situation is horrendous but the sickness is a bigger problem with the youngbirds this year and ive no dout that its paramyxo related not youngbird sickness as we call it so people must be telling lies that they have vacinated or we have a big problem with the vaccine colombo vac in particular it will be nobilis for me from now on but what gets me is there are guys racing birds that have sickness in there loft which is shocking they think its ok if they just race the ones that look ok its not if one has it they all have it just some get it worse than the others just like humans so stopping racing for a few weeks might make your birds look a bit better but they are still carrying the disease and passing it on to healthy birds in the basket and its in every fed in Britain and has been for weeks no one gives a s t i do not believe its only myself that is seeing this

ive been saying it for weeks nearly every fed has dropped half or more of there birdage the falcons are adding to the problem by chasing sickbirds but as ive said before they are homing pigeons falcons are not getting them all the rest should get home next day next week or next month but they should get home wake up guys

 

 

You've hit the nail on the head couldn't have said it better !

[border terrier lofts]

We’ve had massive problems with falcon attacks on our birds for the last 25 years at the loft ,with many pigeons old and young missing for hours sometimes days before they return,in my opinion once pigeons have been attacked and split from the batches many of these birds especially YBS won’t go back into the sky and make for home thus leading to massive losses year in year out ,yes sickness is a problem and fanciers shouldn’t be sending pigeons that are sick, but for me the biggest problem is the falcons attacking our birds every 5-10 miles on the way home let’s address the biggest problem this great sport is facing if we are going to survive .racing YBS when percy’s teaching there young to kill is total madness in my opionion ? let’s get together before it’s too late.

[tiger]

Well Walter I don't agree with you about sickness in ybs the biggest problem is that most are not basket trained ask any convoyer the amount that need put out of baskets is unreal healthy ybs just don't know how to come out. Jmo

[Arranview]

ONLY 3% of the pigeons sent to Catterick with the Glasgow fed got home in race time. That was 5 birds on the night, the winner doing around 20 mph. What happened to them ? My first pigeon at 6.40pm was fresh as paint ( was it down hiding ?) and my 2nd pigeon at 8.03pm was absolutely exhausted. What would you say caused this disaster. IMHO, it was BOP, nothing more. A lot of good points on this thread but the bottom line is, 'TALK IS CHEAP' action is required NOW.

Correct 100% bop, I put a post on here about 5 weeks ago took 80 ybs to Carnwath and lost 60 still nothing reported to this day ,yet I got the old your birds must have canker P*** talk lol aye nae bother ,birds were in outstanding condition, I've said for yrs these birds are coming to a place near you soon ,Ayrshire has been blootered since 1995,96 and you we'd hear is yous in there are clueless yous are never pigeon men lol ,well its coming home to roost now talk of stopping yb racing ,Lanarkshire sending 1600 birds to 100ml yb race ,Glasgow struggling to muster 160 ybs ,North West struggling to muster 150 ybs ,every fed getting slaughtered in recent weeks ,spoke to guys 20 miles east of me 2/3 yrs ago they'd never seen a percy but there seeing them now ,full place is infested now hopefully now the the big boys are getting blootered and not just us dummies making up the numbers in here something will change or im afraid its over ,

[Adee1888]

Del Boy bang on to many coconuts run the show nowt will ever get done the old saying want it done do it yourself

[walterboswell59]

Well Walter I don't agree with you about sickness in ybs the biggest problem is that most are not basket trained ask any convoyer the amount that need put out of baskets is unreal healthy ybs just don't know how to come out. Jmo

john its fact m8 i could name over twenty right now with birds dropping dead killing all or most of there birds old and young this is an outbreak of some sort and its in every fed in Britain believe me the only thing i can see that they have incommon is they started getting bother a few weeks after jagging with colombo vac or after someone in there club jagged with it why would people tell me there birds are sick if its not true men in your fed and mine i am one of the hardest trainers in scotland i get hit more than most when attacked my birds scatter some head for home the rest come later sometimes with one or two missing if they dont get home on the day they are there the next morning because they are fit and healthy homing pigeons and i agree wih you guys not training and sticking them in to get a pull home is a problem and hold birds at the race point but how can we stop these guys when we cant even get guys to admit they have a problem and stop racing there must be 8 to 10 thousand birds missing in the last month where are they and why cant they get home the stray centres and convoyers must be seeing sick birds or they dont know what there looking for or dont want to know

[walterboswell59]

all we can hope is what ever it is thats going through the youngbirds will affect percy also but i cant see it thats something we need to sort but that will not happen no one wants to get off there backside and do something about it just talk p h on here about what we should do

[Arranview]

ONLY 3% of the pigeons sent to Catterick with the Glasgow fed got home in race time. That was 5 birds on the night, the winner doing around 20 mph. What happened to them ? My first pigeon at 6.40pm was fresh as paint ( was it down hiding ?) and my 2nd pigeon at 8.03pm was absolutely exhausted. What would you say caused this disaster. IMHO, it was BOP, nothing more. A lot of good points on this thread but the bottom line is, 'TALK IS CHEAP' action is required NOW.

Going on walters theory im assuming the full of your fed Del must be riddled lol

[Cammy 11]

Going on walters theory im assuming the full of your fed Del must be riddled lol

His Fed is riddled but no with illness