pigeonscout

Tricho Plus (contains Ronidazole) For the treatment of pigeons and exotic birds for Trichomonas (canker) and Hexamitiasis. Effective against anaerobic bacteria. Broad safety margin. No harmful effect on racing performance. Not toxic for young birds.

I have always locked my birds up after the last race until 4 weeks before the first race (two weeks flying round the loft then two weeks basket training) and I have never had any problems with losses or winning the first races. I do not see the point in letting them out to feed the bop at this time of year.

A drop of cooking oil on the back of the pigeons neck dried up with something the bop wont like?? works very well

I was thinking of two Lesbian hens paired up=4 eggs. Fred if you think it belongs to another hen then mark the two eggs in the box and when the 3rd egg comes there will be a good chance you can tell the odd one out. let the odd one stay in the nest until you see a hen with one egg that came same day as the 3rd egg. The odd one + the single should also match ie same shape and size. It is not 100% sure way the right egg will be with the right hen but it is the best you have.

You could end up with 4 eggs in the nest if two hens have paired up.

The birds need good bacteria to have a healthy digestive system so you would think the droppings would turn bad when on a course of antibiotics as we are told they kill the good bacteria.

Yes people are using antibiotics because they are the only thing that have been scientifically proven to clear your birds of Paratyphoid. Most of theses so called expert vets you talk about also tell you to give these same antibiotics you say is doing harm before you give the vaccine. So are theses vets you are getting your info from right about giving the vaccine that does not stop them from getting Paratyphoid and wrong about the antibiotics that have been proven to work? When I said that there is no vaccine that will stop your birds from getting Paratyphoid you said I was talking crap. I have give you proof that what I said is scientific fact so ask yourself who has been talking the crap?

I was not trying to give what I thought was correct info, I was giving scientifically proven facts unlike you who is giving the opinion of those who have an interest in selling the vaccine. I have shown you scientific facts that the vaccine will not stop your birds from getting paratyphoid. Now can you show me scientific facts that the vaccine does stop them from getting paratyphoid. Until you do then you have no justification in saying what I, the British Veterinary Association and the Department of Avian Pathology, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of Ghent, Belgium have said is wrong.

Just checked the British Veterinary Association and nothing has changed so the info still stands.

http://www.belgicadeweerd.nl/news/paratyphoid.html. If you read that you will see nothing has changed in 30 years and he thinks that vaccination in case of paratyphoid is a professional mistake. I watched his video and on it he tells dave allen he would not and has not used a vaccine for para as it does not stop them from getting it and vaccination sometimes causes out-breaks,

The british veterinary association got the info from the Department of Avian Pathology, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of Ghent, Belgium. It is your opinion to go with the majority not the minority, well I will go with the facts. http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/content/abstract/128/7/152

If the info I have given is by the British Veterinary Association then where are your vets getting their info? The facts are that not one vaccine out there will stop your birds getting para.

The reason they are given the 10 day treatment is to make sure they do not have paratyphoid . It has nothing to do with antibiotics helping the immune system otherwise you could give any antibiotics. You are ask to treat with antibiotics that are effective against paratyphoid so that the birds are clear of it before vaccine is given for the reason given in last post. I am not a vet but the info I have posted has been published by the British Veterinary Association and they are the findings of Department of Avian Pathology, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of Ghent, Belgium. And if they say the results do not justify the preventive use of salmonella vaccination in pigeons, then who am I to say they are wrong? you say 90+% is better than 0, So what vaccine stops them getting it? answer none so that is 0%

If you read the findings you will see that he birds were vaccinated according to the recommendations of the manufacturers and the results do not justify the preventive use of salmonella vaccination in pigeons. I did read the article in the bhw by wim peters and he is 100% sure in telling us to vaccinate against paramyxo but not the paratyphoid. Five inactivated and one attenuated vaccine produced for the prevention of salmonellosis in pigeons were compared in an experimental challenge model. The birds were vaccinated according to the recommendations of the manufacturers and they were infected by gavage with a Salmonella typhimurium (var copenhagen) pigeon strain. The challenged control animals showed severe weight loss, excessive water intake over a prolonged period, and excreted large numbers of salmonellae. None of the vaccines fully protected the pigeons, and only an inactivated oil adjuvant vaccine was able to reduce the severity of the clinical signs significantly. Mortality was low and tended to increase with the severity of the clinical signs. These results do not justify the preventive use of salmonella vaccination in pigeons. Nevertheless, the oil adjuvant vaccine may help in the effective cleaning of lofts after an outbreak of salmonellosis.

Well if a bird is carrying paratyphoid in a carrier state whereby the birds immune system is keeping it under control. When that bird is given a vaccine against paratyphoid the immune system goes to work on the vaccine and the paratyphoid that was under control is now left to accumulate. That is why some recommend treating 10 days before the vaccine.

You say, However, the currently available vaccines do give us protection and I think we have to settle for the best we can get for now. What sort of protection do they give if every single bird in the test got para after they had recived the vaccines, that is 100% failure.

Five inactivated and one attenuated vaccine produced for the prevention of salmonellosis in pigeons were compared in an experimental challenge model. The birds were vaccinated according to the recommendations of the manufacturers and they were infected by gavage with a Salmonella typhimurium (var copenhagen) pigeon strain. The challenged control animals showed severe weight loss, excessive water intake over a prolonged period, and excreted large numbers of salmonellae. None of the vaccines fully protected the pigeons, and only an inactivated oil adjuvant vaccine was able to reduce the severity of the clinical signs significantly. Mortality was low and tended to increase with the severity of the clinical signs. These results do not justify the preventive use of salmonella vaccination in pigeons. Nevertheless, the oil adjuvant vaccine may help in the effective cleaning of lofts after an outbreak of salmonellosis.

Try reading this http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/content/abstract/128/7/152 Then try and tell me it stops them getting para

what is a load of crap

It does not matter what vaccine you use it will not stop the birds from getting paratyphus.

Put them all on the dark so that they race and train as a team, it does them no harm as old birds.

Bring some birds into a warm room for an hour and if the feathers go tight then you know it is just the cold and nothing to worry about.

A good bird is born a good bird and it is up to the fancier to make that bird fly to the best of its ability. If a bird is lacking in health, fitness condition, or motivation it may well win a race but it will not fly 100% of its true potential.

Spray on Path clear.

I would have netting running from the top of the wall down to the front of the roof.