pigeonscout

Theses birds they are breeding are protected and so are a lot of the birds they are feeding on. Is anyone doing anything about the other protected birds that are getting killed by theses birds that are only in the wild because they were hand reared. If they cannot survive in the wild without being hand reared then they have no place in it.

I often wondered if it would make a difference keeping the old nest but then I realized that if you put a new nest in the same box as the old nest then hen and cock will go to the new one. Better still if the box next to them is free they often will go there for 2nd round.

This is what they look like

A spoon full of vinegar in the water stops them drinking to much and just like Mark I also feed a lot of maples.

How good is the food your feeding?

Depends on the weather some days you will get the hens first some days you will get the cocks first. I race hens and cocks the hens race back to the stock cocks and the cocks race back to the stock hens. That way they always have their partner waiting on them when they enter the loft. I also race my young bird the same way, young hens back to old cocks and young cocks back to old hens. This system works for me and I have done ok on it.

I never knew there was such a thing until I found this tonight http://www.thepoultrysite.com/cocciforum/issue7/49/cocci-profile-coccidiosis-vaccination-takes-hold-in-china

Would a cocci vaccine be a good or bad thing

agree 100%

If the updates improve then keep them coming

There are arguments for and against the use of a vaccine for paratyphoid. All vets will tell you to vaccinate for PMV so we come to the conclusion it has been proven to work. Not all vets agree to vaccinate for paratyphoid so we can come to the conclusion it has not been proven to work. I for one was very surprised to find out that the vaccine for paratyphoid did not even have a 1% success rate in stopping a bird from getting paratyphoid as I thought that was the purpose of a vaccine. It turns out it only helps with the death rate which is very low in old birds anyway. I treat with Antibiotics before pairing up just to be on the safe side as I believe paratyphoid will do most of its killing in the egg and up to ten days old. Some would say I should have them tested but to test them you need to collect the dropping for 5 days and even then the results can come back clear even though they have it. I will be the first to use a vaccine for paratyphoid when they have found one that has been proven to work and all vets agree with the use of it just like they have with the PMV vaccine.

Does he say why a healthy birds condition should improve after vaccination.

What do you disagree with? as all i have said is the vaccine does not stop them from getting Paratyphoid and it will not kill 90 to 100% of your birds.

Go to reply 18 of 63 on page 4 / 19 down and tell me you did not say that the fact I stated was a load of crap.

You still have not told me what books or vets told you it killed 90 to 100% of the birds.

They all say to treat for paratyphoid before you give the vaccine so he could tell people to treat with para before the vaccine and still sell the same amount. If your going to give advice on something it pays to know a wee bit about it first and not tell people they are talking crap when they have stated a fact.

Your wrong when you think im getting emotional but I have to agree with a lot of what you have said about the Baytril and fanciers loosing eggs and the only other way to cast some light on something as difficult to understand as this disease is to try to get hold of the studies conducted by scientific institutions. Here is one study about the vaccines http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/content/abstract/128/7/152 A lot of fanciers are loosing eggs because they do not treat for para before pairing up because they believe the vaccine has stop them from getting.

I agree with what you say and it is up to everyone to make up their own mind. I was just pointing out that the vaccine would not stop your birds from getting paratyphoid as a lot of fanciers believed it did and was told I was talking crap.

I know what you are saying about parastop but he would not have to have a licence to make money selling a vac for paratyphoid as he has no problem using and indorsing the Paramyxo vaccine and even goes on to say it is a must.

If someone is telling me im wrong because they have read it in a book or been told by top vets then I have the right to ask what books and what vets Belgica De Weerd is one of the best known vets in the pigeon world and he would not put his reputation on the line by making a statement that would show him to be a fool. If you know of another vet that has had more experience than this one I would like to know of him. I have had paratyphoid in my loft like most lofts have at one time or another and it never killed 90 to 100% of my birds. If paratyphoid killed 90 to 100% of the birds there would be very few pigeons about as we are told 80% of lofts have it. Please read this http://www.belgicadeweerd.nl/bdwenglish/ziektesparathypus.htm. I am not giving my option I am just saying what theses top vets are saying.

Well if your not making it up then please tell me and anyone else reading this the names of the books and vets that say paratyphoid kills 90 to 100% of the pigeons. Because the vet in the link below is one of many vets that say different. http://www.albertaclassic.net/chalmers1.php ?

Maybe he has something else like adenovirus 2

I would like to know where you are getting your info that says 90 to 100% fatality, as this statement tells me you don’t know the first thing about the effects of paratyphoid on racing pigeons. As most birds will recover from paratyphoid on their own or with the help of treatment. What you need to do is go away and read up on the effects and treatment of paratyphoid on racing pigeons. Here is a good place to start http://www.albertaclassic.net/chalmers1.php

What you say is correct and this is why some fanciers give a treatment against paratyphoid once a year before pairing up.

Nothing has change unless you have proof that it does it still stands. It was also pointed out to you in a post form IB that there have been follow ups done on theses findings in recent years and the results where the same. I see now that you are in agreement with what you said was crap and that there is no vaccine that will stop them getting paratyphoid. My point is if it does not stop them from getting it why give it. If my birds get paratyphoid then I will treat them with any number of antibiotics that will cure it.