Kyleakin Lofts

Keep letting them out and it will clean you out.

What are dipped doos?

Don't know the answer Danny, but I don't think Glasgow is profit motivated. Nowadays we should be looking at keeping costs down whilst still maintaining conditions for the birds and setting a modest amount aside for the future. If your figures are correct, I am unsure whether £20,000 could be considered modest. I do not know the costs for replacement transport, but at £20,000 per year all the grumping about Lanarkshire's transport should be a thing of the past. I do not think it would take them very long to buy state of the art transport with electronic checking of conditions for the birds similar to that of the BBC. With such transport they would be the envy of Scotland.

Where can I buy some pure Kirkpatrick / Dordin crosses?

I had a pair of cocks like this and they were only average when racing, until 1 was lost. The other went on to gain a low place in our final race, but was my timer. He has now taken a hen, so should race normally next year hopefully. Couldn't get him to take a hen when the other cock was there.

I have used him in the past and found him to be reasonable, a bit slow and hard to contact, but the job was done.

Clyde Coast - J Howie - 01294 468150

Owen, with regards to inbreeding and line breeding, I stated that you must be able to recognise when a cross is required. This was to prevent loss of vigour. It is accepted in many circles that with inbreeding of whatever nature you trap a gene pool and as such have more control over any variations and it is in this respect that outcrossing leaves it more to chance. I also mentioned that we require our pigeons to race well in our given field and this is the trait that we are trying to fix. My last sentence "If you mate a champion hen to a champion cock, both champions in the same field, are you inbreeding to their winning traits, even though you may be crossing families?" shows that although those particular birds may not be blood related, they are genetically related through their ability or trait of winning in their chosen field. The difference is that within a family or strain we have a known and sometimes the stockman can tell by the colour of the birds, etc. With the cross, although the birds are both winners they may not "click". You would certainly increase vigour, but you would also increase the variations within the gene pool. The family line takes more time, I would think, and requires strict culling and a good stockman whilst the other method requires the luck of the coupling. Both should be tested by results because this is why we breed them in the first place.

In theory there is nothing wrong with inbreeding. It fixes traits, but as has been said, both good and bad. To this end you have to be severe in culling. You also have to be able to recognise when a cross is required. Line breeding is just inbreeding, but a bit further out, so the same applies although you may have a little more leeway. Outcrossing is to leave it all to chance. When bringing your cross in, you have to ensure that the cross is of suitable quality. To this end running two families would allow you to be able to do this. Not many can afford to run two families. Why would you do this? The only reason is to fix certain traits you are after. What traits do we require in our racing pigeons? We require them to race well in the given field. If you mate a champion hen to a champion cock, both champions in the same field, are you inbreeding to their winning traits, even though you may be crossing families?

I think we are seeing a change in tactics used by the BOP. Peregrines are hunting in the same way as SHs and neither are particularly scared of humans. They may be imprinted on town living and nesting since more seem to so do. In these environments, their prey species will change because of inherant dangers of attacking their normal prey. In these environments, racing pigeons are more plentiful around lofts so loft attacks are increasing. They have to kill to eat and High level, dive bombing attacks are too dangerous in these environments so they are now ambushing and skimming at their prey.

That would be their get out. It wasn't the DDT that directly killed the BOP, it was the lack of food source because of the DDT, that wiped them out. There is always a counter arguement. What is needed is honesty regarding the situation and I am sure we are all agreed that honesty is in short supply when the RSPB are concerned. They are happy to trot out extinct figures and statistics.

Not in Lanarkshire and don't race south yet, but here is my two pence worth. Traditionally we flew the west or centre route M6. We changed because of the BOP problem. The racing on the east was a vast improvement. The BOP have taken a grip and have migrated east as well. The east route seems to have its problems and BOP are one of them. It has been mooted that increased clashing is also a problem. Facts count. Ayrshire and Lanarkshire went west this year, fact. Ayrshire felt they got slaughtered and sent YB's east, fact. Lanarkshire stayed west for the complete programme, fact?. What is required is not a debate about which route the fanciers think is best, but what were the facts about returns. What mitigating circumstances were there, eg. strong east winds, change of route has an effect on the old birds, etc. I am a beginner and in that respect as Gareth stated, somewhat tongue in cheek, I have no opinion. I do have a right to be allowed to draw an opinion, but this i am unable to do, unless given the facts. Traditionally west because it was best suited to the birds returning from distance races. West should still be best for this same reason, but external factors have changed that. To evaluate the external factors is a requirement. Lanarkshire has been brave enough, or stupid enough, to try the west again, so they have the facts, but these facts are just a snapshot. For these facts to carry any weight, Lanarkshire would have to fly west for probably something like around 3 years so that their facts could carry any weight. Just a beginners opinion, but one which I hope you would consider to carry some merit.

The plierless seals issued by the SHU can be sealed, opened, then resealed without breaking. We have tested them in our club and are unhappy with them. As far as I am aware the SHU has been notified, but perhaps all fanciers should send an e-mail to the SHU.

Good idea Del and worth a shot.

I was talking to a bee keeper. Be careful where you buy your honey from. A lot of honey is now imported. A lot of this imported honey contains anti-biotics because thee bees have been dosed with it as a protection against bee illnesses.

Cumnock - J McDougal - 01290 426125

Kilwinning I Hamilton - 01294 551352

Barrhead Fereneze 92 R.P.C. Secretary: Mrs V Byrne Dunbar on 28/07/2012 at 10:00 hrs 4 Members sent 127 Club Birds Brisk West Wind 1 Gebbie & Flemming 75m 369y 1102.310 2 Gebbie & Flemming 1095.014 3 Gebbie & Flemming 1092.304 4 Liam Byrne 77m 1386y 1037.953 5 Peter Murphy 71m 1655y 1027.302 6 George Galbraith 78m 1454y 1026.772 7 George Galbraith 1019.353 8 George Galbraith 994.271 9 Peter Murphy 990.340 10 Peter Murphy 971.843 11 Peter Murphy 939.048 12 Peter Murphy 896.495 13 Peter Murphy 896.072 14 Peter Murphy 895.122 15 Peter Murphy 887.696 16 Peter Murphy 886.763 17 Peter Murphy 795.570

Sending 4 to be convoyed by NRCC. We get a separate liberation after your liberation. We are flying about 250 miles. Best of luck to all in the race and it looks good for a liberation.

Well done Frank.

Best of luck.

I would agree that there definitely looks like there are 2 of them, but the speed of the attack seems to indicate other than a buzzard.

Bad news Rab, but glad they worked back in. That is the way the percie hits me at the loft and chases in low.

I received the same letter. This is my return email. Dear Jill Many thanks for your reply. I do feel however that it is rather statuatory in manner. Raptors and racing pigeons In 2000, the Defra-led Raptor Working Group published a report in which it assessed the predation of racing pigeons by raptors, and concluded that failure to return home or straying appeared to be the most significant underlying reason for losses whereas raptor attacks were estimated to account for about 7.5% of the loss of racing pigeon populations in the UK The year 2000 was 12 years ago and therefor your statistics are dated and as such are completely mis-leading and of absolutely no value whatsoever. Further to this, the stated numbers of raptors within the population has not changed significantly in any report since these figures were arrived at, whereas in fact these raptor populations have become hugely successful and the groups recording the populations agree that the very nature of the birds are such that accurately recording their numbers is impossible. Large sums of money are spent within the racing pigeon fraternity and losses due to failure to return home or straying have always been part of the nature of keeping and racing pigeons. Are you able to give reasons why nowadays these numbers have increased in line with our perceived increase in raptor activity amongst our injured returning birds and increased home attacks around and WITHIN the lofts? The report contained some recommendations for steps that pigeon fanciers could take to reduce of predation risk at or near lofts. These recommendations included: • timing and varying release of birds to avoid the regular visits by raptors; • use of physical, audible and visual deterrents on or near the loft; • loft design and location; • use of repellents and behavioural conditioning; Even the raptor groups agree that these methods are short lived and that the raptors become used to them. and • provision of alternative prey (additional lofts of less valuable birds). I was under the mis-apprehension that cruelty to animals was frowned upon. You are recommending that I keep less valuable pigeons to sacrifice them to these killers prior to releasing my more valuable birds. I presume you have also informed the raptors that this is the advice you have given and that the naughty birds have now only to eat our less valuable pigeons. Frankly speaking I find this piece of advice contemptuous and unworthy of any government organisation. It sounds to me that the inmates are running the assylum. The full conclusions and recommendations of the Raptor Working Group can be found at: https://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/raptorworkinggroup_tcm9-188714.pdf Pigeon fanciers across the UK are strongly encouraged to ensure they are aware of and follow these recommendations to help prevent predation of their birds by raptors. Pigeon fanciers are aware of and attempting these methods, but let me assure you, they do not prevent predation, but only delay it for a short period of time. A 2004 study funded by Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) and the Scottish Homing Union also suggested that there is no evidence that birds of prey cause major losses of racing pigeons at lofts or during races. The report, ‘Racing Pigeons - Impact of Raptor Predation’, concludes that much more could be done using deterrents and other novel techniques to reduce the small number of successful attacks that do take place. If Mr Jones wishes to obtain a copy, he will need to contact SNH. Its website address is: http://www.snh.gov.uk/index Similarly outdated to the earlier reference and also flawed in its finding which were not fully accepted by the SHU. The Scottish Executive also commissioned a review of an exploratory trial of two management practices designed to reduce sparrowhawk attacks on racing pigeons at pigeon lofts which was inconclusive in its findings due to difficulties in obtaining data. It is available online at: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/01/15105533/16 The evidence suggests that birds of prey account for a relatively small proportion of lost birds. To help reduce this number further there are a number of recommendations for pigeon fanciers to follow that will decrease the chances of predation. This research and the recommendations should provide an integrated solution to many of the problems faced by the racing pigeon enthusiast I am afraid it depends on the manner in which you view these reports and evidence on which conclusions you will arrive. I am a newcomer to pigeon racing and as such have no historical knowledge, but ALL the experienced fanciers that I speak with concur that the devastation caused by an attack accounts for large numbers of birds failing to home and subsequently adding to the stray problem. These attacks also cause injury to birds to the extent that some of them fall prey to other predators due to these injuries caused in attempting to escape from the initial attack. The predator may only take 1 pigeon, but it can cause the loss of 100's of pigeons due to secondary means. The danger to racing pigeons caused by peregrines was a fundamental reason why the war office rewarded those who culled these birds during the war. At that time the members of governmeent were well aware of the dangers that peregrines caused and the Germans had falconers training their birds in an attempt to intercept our pigeons when returning with vital information. From a beginner's point of view, I have seen an increase in raptor activity around my own loft in the short time that I have had racing pigeons. Sparrowhawks and Peregrine Falcons, like all birds, are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and we have no plans to reduce the protection afforded to this or any other bird of prey. To say that I am saddened by this conclusion is perhaps an understatement and I would have been far happier if it had been intimated that the information received from racing pigeon fanciers, gamekeepers, songbird enthusiasts, etc had not been discounted out of hand. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Response to your Query : - RefWOE000274952 - raptors and racing pigeons Andrew Kyle

Barrhead Fereneze 92 R.P.C. Secretary: Mrs V Byrne Otterburn on 17/06/2012 at 12:15 hrs 5 Members sent 100 Club Birds Westerly wind 1 Peter Murphy 94m 1674y 1023.669 2 Peter Murphy 1023.356 3 Peter Murphy 1016.921 4 John Lannigan 93m 450y 990.244 5 Liam Byrne 98m 1650y 989.102 6 Peter Murphy 956.851 7 Peter Murphy 923.792 8 Peter Murphy 911.780 9 Peter Murphy 911.365 10 Peter Murphy 895.573 11 Peter Murphy 883.889 12 John Lannigan 852.338 13 Gebbie & Flemming 96m 145y 790.891 14 George Galbraith 101m 354y 770.167