Roland

Well many are into the 'Beiche System' now with a good feed back.... Don't know how Ronnie and Albear would cope with it though lol.

Sorry to disagree, but I believe that it is far far better to have a smaller loft and make the birds earn their perch. Stick to say 12 - 15 pairs even, and just select after each season before the moult. Record all their goings and comings, habits, races days out - and reasons if any, you or the bird, and refuse the urge to expand as long as you can. 12 x 8 split into two sections is ample to be sucessful. Better costwises, easier to observe and manage. JMO

Yes spot on here.... to hot for missis to mow the lawn lol.

No one is knocking Chris ... though you by your very reply, and miss - be guided, attempts to defend are about to do a! Character Assignation'! I never called his ability, indeed I paid homage to him as a good flyer. Just check the post again. It is irrelevant how good or bad a flyer is in regards their views. Quite simply Louis Masserella was a flyer of the highest esteem. He as a stockman to rivalled the best! And for someone to suggest that they bought 'World Record' pigeon at world record prices, not just the odd one, but shed loads of the finest calibre of the very best fanciers worldwide. To imply that far inferior birds breed winners at the highest level, and his breed duffs is ludicrous to say the least. Come to think of it, there are literally 1000's of us that have duff birds and nary a one has bred a National, or international, indeed the vast majority don't get on the score sheet, and that's at club level let alone Fed or Higher. Now I wonder why! Chris, no disrespect, is a fine fancier by all accounts, but no where in the same league as Masserella. Neither has he in his loft a 100th of the calibre of Luella. And he hasn’t supplied countless of fanciers with winning birds! Now that is a simple reality. No name calling or being deponent, just the basic facts! If you or Chris feel their nose put out by the truth, sorry but there you go. Louella’s record is there for all to see, and second to none, and as for the prices, it is and was like they advertised, ‘’Real class pigeons within the reach of the working man’. He made that saying, and he made it a reality, and for very many a dream come true.

What you on about...!!! You been at the bottle or something? As for Vic I have never met the guy.... but the simple reality that he might like a tipple, is not to say he isn't Knowleable! Not all, but the vast majority use that as a poor excuse to belitte or write him off. And the other simple fact is as Spence says 'Good pigeons, breed good pigeons, and further as Masserella said on a TV doucumentry on pegeons 'Buy the best doesn't mean that they will breed the best ... but it cuts the odds down considerably. Now he bought the best, not only the birds that Won the big ones, but the birds that bred it! the Brothers, sistera nd uncles etc. So to say that by buying the best is a sure way of breeding rubbish is incredable.

What a difference half hour makes... mostly clear blue skies and a light S. East wind.

Here overcast, birds up at Fareham, 6: 30 No wind, 112 miles.

Yes Okit'sme, I bred a pair of youngsters in June, that were the first ever to Fly Thurso as y/b's from this neck of the woods... Richard Howey land I believe. And regardless what you may here, the only detrimental thing about August / September bred youngsters is that 18 months before you fly them proper. But a couple of tosses, a couple of 100 mile races first o/b season and next season they take all the beating, bred and reared in the purple, and if you you have a disastrous y/ bird season, you will have some cracking 19 month old birds as two year olds. You can do far worse, so if you have patience and room, Latebreds are a must I believe. Good luck

No you haven't touch a raw nerve at all Chris, after all you have to look in the mirror and wipe the brown stuff from around your mouth. And also if you only buy the best and breed from the best, and are more selective, then yours must be real rubbish for starters in as much you cannae do a lot better! And Mark hope your birds do well for you, but looks aren't anything at all... You can get that 'Bonzo Brill' from out of a bottle' lol But yes Chris has good birds, yes he has and is doing well, just a shame he can't wake up and smell the coffee like.

So Chris that is a rather ludicriss statement. I see your results from time to time, and can assure you that there are umpteen, 100's infact far far better than you have acheived. Have bred Nation and internation winners, an every other organisation you care to mention. So yes with so many they has to be a bit of rubbish bred from time to time, and of course the Stock sense may not always be right.... but theiur offspring are more than likely to click! To put it simply, the money spent, the fantastic birds bought means that there are umpteen bargains to be had every week! And whats more Loella make them available to the Plebes, so spend as you like, but I think it's in poor taste to decry a stud that has acheived so much for so many, and lets face far far more than what you have acheived. Sorry but cant stand by and see a Decent concern slagged of, especially by one not so good....

And quite right too :X Cheeky git wants a slap... I'd made him a nice cuppa.... be KEPT running to the loo, and in the mean time he'd be sitting on a sore a**E LOL...

Yes I also believe that! But then we try always to have the birds impeccable to breed from... What is said nigh every time 'I treat for Worms, Canker, etc. etc.' Now if the birds are to be bred from and they get their 'Monetisation' from the parents, and they always carry a mild dose etc. of most things ... It is what is needed to fight the diseases if and when they get them. Also the Jab is giving the birds a mild jab to get over it etc. to immune their system a bit. So why clean the birds right out when breeding from them? I don't and never have personally, but I think one is say one thing but not trusting in nature to do it's job, and more importantly doing more harm that good and breeding birds with a weaken constitution, likewise close breeding. JMO.

Many the ole timers used race days for them to be feed and watered in te basket. Sees to make sense.

They clear any 'Competition' in their very wide area. I doubt very much they would be able to catch a pigeon... But hawks etc. are easily and readily taken at night time. Have to ask my friends dad if he'll breed some youngsters.

Can only speak as I find. The one I had 6 years ago as a youngster has flown far and well for me... expect here to peform well at Frazerburg a week a Sat... having her first race this Saturday, and hopefully two chucks before this week. Three main, and good flyers in my club, did what many sucessful others have done in the club, and bought a round of 'Latebreds'. Many of our 'Achieved' sucess at the national, and Internation' were of spring of Louella Birds. So yes some don't hit, other do, but one must also take into account the 'Fancier's' ability too I believe. Yes would think of starting again with 8 pairs of latebreds of Double Grandchildren.

Here Here!

Not for you obviously ... But was repeating from a Committee members, and the returns etc. from a INLAND marking station ... I think the MNFC got it wholly wrong liberating far too early and not waiting for the cloud and mist that was clearly in the east of the Channel to pass on. – I put four in the clock within 27 minutes so should have four in the top hundred or thereabouts, and with a record send of 4,689 I fairly pleased

I agree ... I think! ... lol

One wonders really you know, if they are selling, say tried and tested birds, for instance, that have failed their tests, do they pass them on, and recuperate some of their losses... or even gain a few bob, or cut their losses and clean them all out?! I mean, for argument sake, if one is not happy with their bird they have bought, and they exchange it! One or two scenario's arise I fancy. If replaced, does it then get sold on again?! Or even bred from?! I mean the 'Blood' is supposedly still there... Or is it a reality that tried and test family' introduced and passed on after proving themselves not quite up to the ball game - regardless of costs and pedigrees - are passed on with such words as 'You know I only buy the real McCoy's etc. Yes of course he has and that may well be 100% true. Also does it really hurt to exchange a bird?! If still bred from and / or sold on again, of course not! Indeed it augers well in reality for the vendor's credibility. Indeed puts a nice warmth to the persona I' feel personally. Yet I know some doubtless that are very genuine in this regard! But if I buy 12 pairs of stock birds, and keep they well, and follow to the letter - as nigh as - what the vendor did / flew them, and am after 3 years of looking out for them, travel miles up the right. Even have genuine remarks of how well and conditioned they are, especially on 'Race Night' and loft visits from knowledgeable and proven fanciers etc. Does one have any rescore? Does the adage 'Ah you bought my birds... NOT me'! Really stand up? Further one sees all too often the endorsements, and great tributes paid, so why is it defamatory to say. ‘Well I and indeed a few others I know had his birds and nary a placing’! Like I have said, I have seen, like many of you no doubt, a famed, or named, renowned flyer endorsing someone’s birds and you are surprised to say the least… Indeed shell shocked lol.

Johnny 11 on here... can't fault him. Quick, reliabe etc.

Pigeon hobbyists held Area men accused of killing thousands of protected raptors By Rod Leveque, Staff Writer Article Launched: 05/24/2007 11:45:29 PM PDT Four local pigeon enthusiasts were among a handful of men arrested this week on federal charges alleging they illegally trapped and killed thousands of protected hawks and falcons. Prosecutors said the men, all of whom are associated with Southern California "roller pigeon" clubs, targeted Cooper's hawks, red-tailed hawks and peregrine falcons because of the raptors' natural tendency to attack and eat the pet pigeons. Wildlife officials said it appears SoCal pigeon club members have killed as many as 2,000 of the raptors per year for the last several years - a large enough number to potentially knock the local ecosystem out of whack - all in the name of protecting their flocks. "These are predatory birds - they're at the top of the food chain," said Lisa Nichols, a special agent with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. "When you take any predator out of the ecosystem you create a huge imbalance in that ecosystem." The four local men were among seven Southern California residents arrested this week as part of a nationwide investigation into the illegal killings of hawks and falcons. Federal authorities identified them as Darik McGhee, 38, of San Bernardino; Brian McCormick, 40, of Norco; Timothy Decker, 60, of Mira Loma; and Rayvon Hall, 46, of Rialto. Two Los Angeles men, including the president of a national roller pigeon club, and a man from Hacienda Heights were also arrested. All have pleaded not guilty to charges in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles. Investigators said the men are all involved in clubs that breed and fly roller pigeons, which are also known as Birmingham Rollers. The pigeons are bred with a genetic defect that causes them to flip and tumble toward the ground as they fly. Enthusiasts hold competitions in which they try to get groups of birds to tumble simultaneously and fall as far as possible without slamming into the ground. Biologists said the awkward flight of the birds can make them appear injured or vulnerable, which attracts the attention of predatory raptors, who target them for food. Special agents with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service infiltrated several roller pigeon clubs in March 2006 and discovered members were routinely trapping and killing hawks and falcons. Such birds are protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. The act makes it illegal to harass, kill or possess them without a permit. According to a federal arrest warrant affidavit, most of the suspects used large, wooden traps baited with pigeons to capture hawks in their back yards. Once the birds were trapped, the men shot them with pellet guns or small-caliber rifles, or beat them with sticks, and then discreetly disposed of the bodies. Hall allegedly told an undercover investigator he sometimes killed the predators by spraying them in the face with a poisonous mixture of bleach and ammonia. According to the affidavit, McGhee made and sold the traps used by many of the other men. He also claimed to have used them himself and boasted to the undercover agent that he had killed so many hawks that he was able to fill a five-gallon bucket with talons he sliced off the carcasses, according to the affidavit. Several pigeon aficionados said Thursday that it appears to them the hawk population has boomed over the last two years, and there are now so many hawks in the sky that pigeon collectors can rarely fly their birds in safety. Nearly everyone in the pigeon community knows killing raptors is illegal, but some do it anyway because they see no alternative for protecting their flocks, they said. Fernando Avalos, vice president of the California New Line Roller Club in Norwalk, said his group does not condone killing raptors, but he understands the frustration of the hobbyists who do. "They are in the wrong, but what can they do to protect their birds?" Avalos said. "You can't even let your birds out anymore. I've kept mine in for a month." One hawk can decimate an entire flock of pigeons, he said. The pigeons cost anywhere from $5 to $100 apiece. Nichols, however, said hobbyists who breed birds that are attractive to predators and then fly them in the natural habitat of the predators have no business complaining when the predators come calling. She said they either need to accept the losses or find another hobby to occupy their time. "They've created a hobby that has certain risks," she said. "It's like telling a race-car driver to not drive fast because it's too dangerous." Authorities dubbed their investigation into the bird deaths "Operation High Roller." All of the defendants are charged with at least one count of unlawful taking of a migratory bird, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Los Angeles. Each count carries a maximum penalty of six months in federal prison. In addition to the California arrests, federal authorities have also filed similar charges against three men in Oregon and one in Texas. Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Johns said an investigation is ongoing and more charges and arrests are possible.

Seems the consesors here abouts is they went too soon. Bicc seem to have had a good race though.

Question Asked … perhaps not the same… I have several pigeons that have bare patches on the breast which cause feathers to fall out leaveing only stumps left. This happens only in spring/summer time and stops after the moult and trough winter. This is was for several years. Can anybody suggest any medication to solve this problem. I' tried permetrin and ivomec, for years but they do non result. Answers: Billy Taylor This is a fungus, Gal. Treatment and preventive is Clorox, in the bath water and sprayed on the infected areas. Barry Shuba: I've heard of using tooth paste and just about everything else...Like Billy T I use Clorox. I mix it 1/2 with water in a spray bottle and this works great. I try really hard to avoid the eyes because it can blind them if the mix is too strong ,also I spray this around inside the loft around the water container and where the droppings fall under the perches etc...I also put a cap full in their bath water. Terrific stuff. Robbie Grant: Here in Ontario we call your problem feather rot. It is caused by a mite. (bug) Remove the feathers from around the effected area. We use a spray called House and Garden Bug killer made by a company called Raid. Try this procedure and your problem should be solved. Added by Billy Taylor: Grand wont argue with you, see Galegos first post he had used a bug killer already, ergo fungus. Dave Trichrome: I have seen this many times. A vet told me to soak the area with TINCTURE OF IODINE that you would put on a cut. This will kill the fungus for sure, i have done it and it worked. Then you have to spray your perches and boxes with MALATHYON to kill the fungus on the wood. Then the problem will be gone. I have done this and it really works. Terry Halfpenny: Won't argue with any of the above, but might suggest checking hoppers, if they are used for feeding. If sharp edged hoppers are used, they can cause the same type of problem as feather rot and is sometimes the reason, that the broken feathers are restricted to breast area. Just a suggestion. Best Terry Dave Booth: I lent few birds out to a young flyer last year. most came back with the same problem. feather rot as it used to be called on the front of the breast. Half cc down the hatch with sheep drench wormer. Problem gone no other birds in loft infected. did this two weeks apart, with in a month or so looked like they never had a problem. Mike Van Der Gapyt: "Feather rot" is caused by a fungus. Copper Sulfide (bluestone) in the bath water clears it up asap. Will also take moss off your roof. So a cross reference there!

Feather Rot is a fungus. Treatment and preventive is Clorox, in the bath water and sprayed on the infected areas. Let’s race. Bye Billy I have seen this many times. A vet told me to soak the area with TINCTURE OF IODINE that you would put on a cut. This will kill the fungus for sure, I have done it and it worked. Then you have to spray your perches and boxes with MALATHYON to kill the fungus on the wood. Then the problem will be gone. I have done this and it really works. "Feather rot" is caused by a fungus. Copper Sulfide (bluestone) in the bath water clears it up ASAP. Will also take moss off your roof. tincture of iodine (′tiŋk•chər əv ′ī•ə′dīn) (pharmacology) A medicinal preparation used as an anti-infective containing 20 grams iodine and 24 grams sodium iodide in 1000 milliliters of alcohol. Also known as iodine solution; iodine tincture.

Yes your is well point taken m8, and accepted as such... but I wasn't intending to devaluetheir abilty, or even honesty, but as to what is often been regarded... after Bruno has removed it I can repeat with out names I guess.