Roland

something nice at feel ... http://www.geocities.com/pinecreekloft/index.html Hope you like it!

have a bird, a red chequer that has never above once homed on the day from under 40 miles - he's now 7, but only one night out in a race, second day Pau 625. Though Lerwicke etc. he timed on day of course.

Codswallop and that is a fact! The whole fancy over countless years has show a far different face than that. Seems the Belges are smirking from their brown ring, yes and brown around their mouth, and seems to be just spouting to impress some ‘want to be ins’ AND HANGERS ONS’! Any one with an ounce of knowledge of this sport in this country knows different, and you should have had the decency and metal to stand up and say so!! Yes the plebes that have been short changed and manipulated in ever way and which, that is another fact. And yet they come back season in and season out to compete, even when the 'Playing Field' has been just an up hill slog. Why? because it is, and has been, the very essence of their love of their' pigeons, and this sport, with a whim and a prayer, and distant - unattainable dreams - that has kept this sport going! Not the Feather merchants with an Angle, not the unfair boundaries, or the blatant pee taking sections - that has ruin any decent Nationals, let alone internationals, and still the so called elitists want and have more sway. Why do you think the grass roots of the hobby have endured till now? Not by the win at all cost brigade, nor the ' I have - you haven't brigade', and definitely not the braggers and exploiters of this fine sport. No, they are tolerated full stop! Yes they have their creepers, and cliques that pout up to them, and they all practice the ole silly crap scenario's of 'Try Harder, instead of moaning get up and do it'! As if those at the top are, or their workers aren't, so that is a crap scenario! The 'Jealousy' crap. Just what has the working plebe that works his 40 odd hours and spends what time he can juggle funds with family / Mortgage / kids etc. got to do with the 'Have' and more affluent! Certainly not jealousy! They can't be jealous of what they have never had, or even likely to get! - Though the 'Haves' do put a star in the sky to aim for.... for just one in a while, a blue moo, or between 'Haley's Comet' they do well. -Indeed considering locations often do better than the 'Haves'. No it is the banter and friendly rivalry at the club, the leg pulling and being happy in their' own small world. It is the Haves that keep tempting them out to try - to do this - etc. And why? Well you can put your last little quiddy on it NOT being for their benefit. They are happy as they are! And I for one have no intention what so ever of gain any ADVANTAGE real or imaginary! That is why I won't have an ET - unless it is acceptable to the WHOLE club! Just look at the National! A joke when feds and Combines are sending more birds each week! And why? Again to keep the ‘Cliques Boys’ happy with the corridor politics and because of the exploitations of Blatant unfair sections that have cater for the few, and the grass roots being expected to bolster their Coffers! The reality is that 70% to 80% don’t even bother with the National! And why? What to keep the ‘Cliques Boys’ happy with the corridor politics, and hangers on and because of the exploitations of Blatant unfair sections that have cater for the few, and the grass roots being expected to bolster their Coffers! That is where and why the apathy starts and is in the rank and files, because of the silly talk like above quoted and said as if to impress! Belges birds, I’ve given away pairs bred from the VERY best in belge, and that’s another fact. The ET isn’t, and never was brought in to serve the Plebes, let alone the odd handicapped person. More for the Money angle and from the ‘Gain a head start at any cost’ brigade, and well you all know it! They have been able to use them for training purposes etc. for yonks, and every reason used to get it passed till that illegal codswallop of Discrimination! If any fair minded and decent person was genuine about the ET they would be for a 15 Sec handicap and 5 sec there after. And just to finish on, the Belgies are so clever and smart etc. THAT they can’t even get it passed to be legal in their National races…. Now there IS a question that needs an answer, so much for their voice, seems to me they’d be better putting their own house in order before trying disdainfully to smirk at us. And No Expat1, we wouldn’t be a laughing stock, but once again like in the 1999 survey pointed out over the ETs we are the ones again putting forward sensible and just concerns! Never mind Bully for us and Tough crap to you’!

Wel did you? There are severa causes - not least Cocci which is favourite. Never knew Canker made birds go light! Then it could be yeast of a more serious kind ... Candida, Thrush etc. Give Johnny11 a buzz, you may well know by this time tomra.... and very keenly priced.

That doesnot mean a jot about trying to be Fair'. and any decent flyer states they do ... but action say otherwise. Expat, of course a ET doesn't make a pigeon quicker ... But may help a slower one of 10 seconds catch up and win. Also - and more importantly no Bird should ever become 'Trap Shy' on the ET. Yes, some have great handlers, and many a good bird has wone a few ... and many a more good birs have unfortunately been ruined by just 'Once' an over zealous act in the heat of excitement. So if the clubs I'm in agree (Firstly if any one has them) that we can have a 15 second handicap for the first bird, then I will have one. If they don't, and some members actually have one, then I shalln't race against them. Simple that. And yes everyone know the great, and good points of an ET clock, so that is well tired and should be put o bed!

slugmonkey the mere fact that a ET will sort out the position if 18 all had the same time is well understood ... what you don't seem to be able to grasp is that, that being so, how more unfair it is for a manual clocker that could clock that fast. Indeed the simple fact that they may be a quarer of a mile behind when a manual clocker gets his bird, only to be beaten by 18 is not very sporting to say the least. Hence a fair handicap of time against a ET whose birds also won't get 'Trap Shy' is something that any decent and fair minded sports person would agree to! Otherwise it is a simple fact that they just want an unfair advantage! Now that is simple... golly even Me should be able to work that out .... given time .... considering his handicap lol :

Well must be some truth to the intelligence, or lack of it me. For if you can't understand the simplest then you are a simpleton. Me, I'd be prepared and willingly give a time handicap if I was to have a ET. Which if that was the case then I'd have one! But if they don't, then I won't have a ET in principle. And then that would mean I would be unwilling to give those that do have one even more advantage, so I'll just keep pigeons and not race. Now what is hard to understand in that! Nothing, I think you just like to try and been clever.... and fail miserably and that makes you very fruastrated. Slugmonkey do you actually know what you are on about ... or just repeat a non - enity that we all quite understand, but now, as then is also still irrelevant.

Quite simple for a ... lol One hear the baloney that they will have to try Harder and Do more to no only get on terms with, be t be able to beat the Best flyers. I have - like many others find it hard to believe that people actually believe that! This of course implies that the better flyers aren't doing the utmost, and are there to be beaten BECAUSE they aren't really top flyers. They are and do put in the time, effort and money, there is no question about that, and good luck to them. Now I would have to in a West wind give flyer 10 - 27 miles in the EAST another 1/4 of a mile start if they have the ET and I, and others can't! No enoughs is enough! Yes I can afford the ET .... but that wouldn't be fair to others who can't! So I won't. If I did and they - the club / Fed said 17 seconds handicap, then I would have one tomorrow! But way too many can't or won't, and therefore I shalln't. But I'd be danged if I will give even more to the more affluent than we do already!

Kind offer Mav ... :K) Send her around ;D ;D

Roland, giving up because of ETS, that's a pitiful reason. I would have thought time, money & birdage numbers have a far greater effect on a 'level playing field' then ETS ever does. In fact ETS probably helps level the playing field by letting me know how my birds return from training when I am at work. Exactly Mick, and the last thing I need now is to have another unfair advantage against me on time of .... thought time, money & birdage numbers have a far greater effect on a 'level playing field' So enough is enough. So I am up at 5, I spent time effort galore to try and keep up, even put my family second, and Why, for it to be implied that without time the zealousness, effort, and lack of money, I hear band the crap scenario that You can do more than the better off, and improve the birds even more. What, why is that then, some kinda idea that those that have time, put the effort in and money, train regular etc. that they don't get teir birds in top condition! I should cocoa, Of course they do, and good luck and all the best to them. Golly on a 1760 ypm they can be 440 yards behind my bird and still beat me! That is without the already unleval playing fields. No if any of the clubs I support go ahead, then I - and quite a few more will just chuck it in. And why - in a so called sport shouldn't any decent and fair minded man be against the manual clocker having a bit of lee way back!?

Thamidalied babies, there is an endless list of so - called 'Betterments' that ave kicked us in the face...

Any way the mere fact that 'Some where, sometimes there is and always will be an advantage doesn't mean a jot to the reality that if it can be evened up that it shouldn't be. I personally will in all probablity pack up racing if they have it in my clubs. I give away enough now with Location, etc. without having birds never tray shy just dropping in to be timed when I have to coax sometimes and then catch and handle etc. Yes I would keep a few flying around and make do with that. But to give someone 10 - 15 - 20 miles in the East more advantages at club level is ludicriss, let alone Section etc. in National. So they are out forthwith. I, like most, spend a lot of time effort let alone money in accepting the unlevel playing field now! Enoughs enough I guess. And don't tell him that hasn't, can't have, or can't afford to get his pigeons fitter and better than the Et flyers .. Golly it seems to me that any one under priveledge has the time, money and ability to be able to better prepare their birds than any top flyer! Eh that is also absolute crap!

Doubt the RPRA would have a say there as they bought it in illegally....

And I make you laugh eh! the Norwich are taking the Pee out of you ... whose birds dog leg in to there area. Get real! Or you believe that they have such poor pigeons that they are the only pigeons in the world world that come out of the west in a west Wind! You must have fell out of a Xmas tree.... time you smelt the coffee Carl. Yes Carl the winds are predominately with West in them, do you believe that only those in favoured locations KNOW this! Err um uer yeee! You make me laugh. Anddog legging in a west Wind make everyone laugh, and the joke is on you mucker! That is why a prominent comittee member of the NRCC says That we down - unless we have to release if there is EAST i the WIND And why? 'Well' he says We feel that it would blow them in the the Mountains / the back bone of Britain' etc. - Waht moutans? and that is why I stated that the scenario is that losing them over the water is OK THEN!Yes they have had to some times. Peterborough Fed is far better situated as you well KNow, and In with East in the wind Ollerton etc. is pretty good. Wouldn't surprise me none if you were one of the brigade that voted that from Bedford to Lowestoft - the most eastern point in Britain - to be a fair section, then wonder why they are only seven of us left in the Northants Section. Was after all just to bolster their' coffers some more. Golly only place iu

Yes I think so!

Mark agree with you entirely ... But then the Wind and Sun is warmer South Rd. Also on the North MOST of the Liberation sites mare geard for the East coast boys.... which means that as soon as the Middle to longer distance races start they fly out at sea for the most - depending on wind strength. NRCC only ever lib in a wind with EAST in it at the very last resort .... which equates to it is A. no faourable to the East coast club. B. they'd rather have birds blown over the continent than allow the Inland boys a shout. Like the silly NOON lib which is designed to hold the birds up at the channel .... allowing MIDDLE DISTANCE BIRDS TO POP OVER AND WIN A 'DISTANCE ' race so called that they have no right to. The next day muscles are bound to be more tired, and get moreso as the time goes on! So how can a bird flying just under 350 - 400 miles be classed a a winner then over birds that have to fly 200 miles or more next day? ! Purely to applease the influential money boys that sell feathers?

We do, and many more, we have 5 times more North Roaders than South roaders in this area ... I - like many of the South Roaders of the 15% - fly both ways. Of course North is a ot harder, and more meriteous, but South seems to get the Talkers. The way folks around here speak it would seem that it was the other way around. Indeed the South Rd fed has to go as far as Bedford / Kempston South, Huntingdon, Sleaford way up North etc. etc. to try and make it pay!

No as you are out of the radious. We ave clubs / feds and Algamation... and believe you are lso out of that. But would love for you lot to do the same, then be a part of a combine... then EVERY week nigh we should fly club, fed, Algamation and Combine and a National. Cut costs and add merit and then of course incentives. Not just our area but the whole countries should be doing it automatically.

Send Johhny11 on here an email.... then send droppings. Very cost effective priced, and may well be a boon.

Mind if there had been a North, or even East rd available the birds would still have been in peak condition AND would have a race!

No exactlyinvincible_spirit, but it should! That is not through short sightedness either, more likely narrow minded egos I'd wager. The sooner clubs / feds put this into operation the better .... certainly not bfore time!

Was in Cananda last year when 400 miles and over are flown back to back! Yes two weeks on th trot!

Yearling pee 500 miles. Golly Jackson was flying them nigh over a 1000 mile a centuary ago. The fellow - can't recall his name was just training as y/b's and devasting the opposition at the distance - all distances in fact. But it was THE DRIVING we was replying to, and yearlings are either great... or very poor, many lost, when in this condition.

All clubs should have a North and South section under the same roof, where members can send either way or both .... but coridor politics and snides blow this out the window. Yes one or two clubs do.... but most losers here have repeatedly started South Rd clubs to be 'Winners' where you have to be a loser to be able to become a member. Northampton SRflying club is different.... we welcome everyone, from East west or where ever inside a 30 mile ring.

Yes here you need a prescription. On the continent it is different. Must say thank you to both Steve who has been a great bod and sent me some down. and Paul who so kindly offered. But as I have some from Steve ... thanks to you both. Have tried it, or rather am lol