Roland

Well one has to decide whether they want a amicable settlement or open warfare. - The last thing we need if the Headlines in the Tabloids saying things like 'Doo men are at it again ... etc..' :o :K) So have words and breed some poulters, great droppers and an asett if used right! Say arrange times when you can let out the droppers and win each other birds which would be great fun too, and he keeps them in when Training / Race days. Thing you'll get along fine ... or just go and batter the crap out of each other, the sort his misses and say 'Just learning from the pigeons etc. ;D Believe I'd rather like the past time to fly poulters / tipplers / tumblers Rollers etc. Who knows after the devastation of the ET. hassle we may well number thousands of us :'( ;D

I have just, or rather I am doing, a reduction of a section that is being used for these 4 pair of stock birds ... cIt could have be 23 x 9 if I'd just moved a wired meshed section of 4 feet. Have now a section of 9 foot for Fridge freeze etc, and baskets I have a 4 foot by 9 hospital section all ready filled with nest boxes and another section. So they will be in a 9 x 8 when finished, far far to big. But will always be able to place a wired section across if I ever need to. Yes the air is dragged and blowing throughout all the time. And yet I have 24 cock birds and 19 hens as I stated in another post!

Soon as they've matured a bit its a different story tho., that 6 reduces to 3 and they physically maintain a distance between them and the next bird on the bar, using warning nod of the head, beak and wing slap; if one of them decides to jump ship and go to a bar further up, the 3 birds on that bar go mental. Exactly, that is it, part and Partial of their very essential make up. They live happier just out side of the 'Beak, and the wing menicing quiver. Then they settle down again till one moves. That is actually the very best time to race a pigeon! A natural element used to good ability.

Why I said again ... and many didn't see it... if it saves one from being scammed, then it is well worth posting again I believe.

Nothing Shadow, that is how my loft is set up. There contention that birds fly away through being over - crowde is just piffle. If they are happy and contented, and getting sufficent clean air / water etc. then there is no number that is over - crowding. I have seen Barry with 8 x 6 loft of 12 pairs, and then the y / b's carry all before him for years. It it now 12 x 8 because he dabble one year with widowerhood, about 10 years ago, and the size stayed same ... each year he keeps the safe amount, and no bird over four.

Well surely the two main and basic formats that are essential to any healthy is ‘Fresh air, the fresher the better and a clean blood system. Nothing can and is, or could be without these being in place and so. We all know that pigeons flock, indeed every chance they have they get closer together. Even in flying! So if the air is as good and as clean as it can be, then it follows that to make a bird really content is to allow and let it to live like it is natural to do so. A contented pigeon is paramount I believe. If I could trap them to a tree, like many others I would. Close proximity is also a natural part and partial to their’ well being. Now how can any one really believe that pigeons will bugger off if some are too close!!! Eek it beggars believe! Now if one can’t employ a system, a loft set up with a good clean air circulation in a dry environment, then it is down to basic ignorance and knowledge, and furthers just a lame crutch for bad management or excuse. I have often had my birds in first class fettle and had them burning home … only to be nowhere near on the day. Why? Well there could well be many reasons, but over – crowding is certainly not one! When all else fails, - be like the Fire Brigade who say when they don’t know ‘Electrical fault’! Likewise ‘Over crowding, it’s a myth too readily applied I’m afraid. And in Nature, all animals, fish and birds etc. are primed to move etc. to stop incest breeding! Yes many young birds – mainly hens it appear – move away from churches, the town centre etc. And why?!… I‘d suggest too much silly inbreeding! But definitely not over – crowding!

Subject: Fw: Fw: Please be aware - Credit Card Scam This one is pretty slick since they provide YOU with all the information, except the one piece they want. Note, the callers do not ask for your card number; they already have it. This information is worth reading. By understanding how the VISA & MasterCard! Telephone Credit Card Scam works, you'll be better prepared to protect yourself. One of our employees was called on Wednesday from 'VISA', and I was called on Thursday from 'MasterCard'. The scam works like this: Person calling says, 'This is (name), and I'm calling from the Security and Fraud Department at VISA. My badge number is 12460. Your card has been flagged for an unusual purchase pattern, and I'm calling to verify. This would be on your VISA card which was issued by (name of bank) did you purchase an Anti-Telemarketing Device for £497.99 from a Marketing company based in London?' When you say 'No', the caller continues with, 'Then we will be issuing a credit to your account. ! This is a company we have been watching and the charges range from £297 to £497, just under the £500 purchase pattern that flags most cards. Before your next statement, the credit will be sent to (gives you your address), is that correct?' You say 'yes'. The caller continues - 'I will be starting a fraud investigation. If you have any questions, you should call the 0800 number listed on the back of your card (0800-VISA) and ask for Security. You will need to refer to this Control Number. The caller then gives you a 6 digit number. 'Do you need me to read it again?' Here's the IMPORTANT part on how the scam works the caller then says, 'I need to verify you are in possession of your card.' He'll ask you to 'turn your card over and look for some numbers.' There are 7 numbers; the first 4 are part of your card number, the next 3 are the security numbers that verify you are the possessor of the card. These are the numbers you sometimes use to make Internet purchases to prove you have the card. The caller will ask you to read the 3 numbers to him. After you tell the caller the 3 numbers, he'll say, 'That is correct, I just needed to verify that the card has not been lost or stolen, and that you still have your card. Do you hav! e any other questions?' After you say, 'No,' the caller then thanks you and states, 'Don't hesitate to call back if you do', and hangs up. You actually say very little, and they never ask for or tell you the Card number. But after we were called on Wednesday, we called back within 20 minutes to ask a question. Are we glad we did! The REAL VISA Security Department told us it was a scam and in the last 15 minutes a new purchase of £497.99 was charged to our card. Long story - short - we made a real fraud report and closed the VISA account. VISA is reissuing us a new number. What the scammers want is the 3-digit PIN number on the back of the card. Don't give it to them. Instead, tell them you'll call VISA or MasterCard directly for verification of their conversation. The real VISA told us that they will never ask for anything on the card as they already know the information since they issued the card! If you give the scammers your 3 Digit PIN Number, you think you're receiving a credit. However, by the time you get your statement you'll see charges for ! purchases you didn't make, and by then it's almost too late and/or more difficult to actually file a fraud report. What makes this more remarkable is that on Thursday, I got a call from a 'Jason Richardson of MasterCard' with a word-for-word repeat of the VISA scam. This time I didn't let him finish. I hung up! We filed a police report, as instructed by VISA. The police said they are taking several of these reports daily! They also urged us to tell everybody we know that this scam is happening . Please pass this on to all your family and friends. By informing each other, we protect each other.

I just love it when my Missis frowns and chunters a mite about the pigeons, and them pecking all the stuff I paid for and bought for her to plant in the garden! ... I just growl abit like, which has two great sides to it! One she gives over, and two she cooks me a Apple and Blackberry pie' Ah so sweet lol.

But Sammy, we don't need to worry about what passes through ... much more importantly what doesn't and what gets into the system, especially he Blood system. Toxins!

Just make sure you have electicity for Lights etc.

Free to Good Home ! ;D

Now, due to ecomenising the room, I have decided to split them in half so as to put another row of wire mesh cages actually only 4 feet away facing each other. Yes there will be an air alley going up the middle, besides through the sides! BUT now, I am really going to push my luck now via putting a 3 inch wire mesh cage around the whole lot of them. Will they suffocate? Deteriorate due to lack of an effective air flow now!

Agreed Bruno ... then the real hard part is 'Introducing new Blood'. So by the same token one should if able and means allow have another Family of two - or more - doing the same thing. Then with your observations over the previous time, select again and start all over again. This is what i believe keeps the 'Man' at the top, as opposed to 'Getting there' and uickly becoming an also ran. It must be, as far as I am concerned, the new introductions - so much needed that is all important. This then reverts back to being not only a decent racer, but - more importantly as far as I am concerned, a good 'Stockman'!

Let’s have some feed back here. I build a foot square box that is directly attached to a 18inch wired meshed cage to sit out in house my birds o a solid floor upon a drilled through wooden block of 4inch square x 2 inches high. Yes the inside nest box is designed to weather bad weather, and is insulated so as the wooden interior is always of a warn nature Indeed I mean to run the line from North West to South East for this purpose too.. Of course they fly will out regularly on a daily basis. I intend to raise it about 3 feet off the ground and then have adjacent ones. My question is ‘How many can I place upon them, say 3 or 4, and How long can this line be before I become over crowed’? Oh yes there will be a Canopy over head two foot higher and well over lapping. This will serve two purposes. One that the floors etc. are always dry, and two, for the birds to sit out and enjoy their extra freedom!

Well done Stuart.

Protien not needed isn't neccesarily passed through and into dung. The worse poison one gets, beit us and especially pigeons id blood poisoning fron toxic waste through too much protien. This will knock your birds sideways big time and is one hell of a thing to shift, as I often harp on about. Believe you me, it is something you just don't want, let alone need... and the symtoms, and effects are usually put down to anything else but Toxin poisoning.

I'd leave them pecish and leave the door open when about. Peace and quiet. They will walk in and out and eventually fly ups to roof etc. and then fly around. Some will be back in loft at night fall, others on the roofs and some not there. But as long as they aren't scared up, I'd say nigh all will start going in and out. The most importan thing is that they know and have confidence of the saftey of the loft.

1t will never happen I guess ... But I would / will certainly 110% be there with my birds to release if it does!!!

Any demolition site has every thing nigh to build a first class seasoned wood loft. Many factories have stacks of pallets which they'd be only too pleased to give you ... not the perfect ones of course. Me! Build a big wire mesh cage - doubled sided and just cover the parts AIR vents and plastic Clading where you wish to. False roof overlapping and Roberts your mothers Brother.

Was deliberately innacruate a few years back because of it being used via terroist etc. Now that is an obsolete thing now. in Canada if the bring the birds back for wahtever reason, they will just set up where it is good to do so and take the GPS reading and let the birds go. Would save some site fees here if we did that. Likewise - due to the distances between flyers and clubs, with the ET they can just send via Eamail their timing in etc. and all have a fair reading back that same nighgt. But of course all rteadings must be verified at the club next weeks marking etc.

If you buy / recouperate Perspex best cut with a Jig Saw using a very FINE METAL blade and take a bit of time and care. Yes many say you can't saw etc. which granted with a hand saw or saw it is very difficult to say the least, but the Fine metal blade with a jig saw works a treat.Just thought I'd pass that on to any one inteested etc.

Thank you both of you. I am of course interested. How did you find it as regards any good? ... if you indeed did use it? It is in reality an olternative to stock fleaces that the birds will / do eat at times. Thougfh what never ceases to amaze me is when I feed, and spill over the floor, regardless how hungry they tendnever to pick any up that is in the droppings!

Who stocks Flightpath? Seen that it is sold in England, Euro etc. but not in the rest of the world yet. But only have the bosses names that sell it, and not the companies!

Having another few pair of stock - birds this season, 4 pairs ... had 6 pair last season, first time ever - they are gone now. But had to introduce a new family as hadn't introduce anything for years, was getting to cousin mating etc. and you know then that the time is needed for some changes. Bought 30 y/b's the year before, finished up with 9 after a massive fly away, one stayed, fetch 4 back from quite a ways away and had 4 returned themselves way down the line. I also had 6 given me too (36). I didn’t breed from any of mine that season (I raced them to feed only and out only on race day. Have 5 races with them due to work commitment) ... I finished up with one of them six. So have 10 2 year olds! Do I need a stock loft! No, after this season I will just keep the four pair because a late round - or a back up sauce may well be handy. But 30 birds’ tops to fly both ways are ample. So if 30 y/b's are bred that can quickly mean that - after Mr. Basket has done his best, on a good season, one is soon over stocked!

Swilcox you are doing a great job for a deserving cause, and I for one appreciate that. I shalln't be at the sale but wish you - and thoses purchasing - every sucess. You are a credit to this sport .... just wish there were a few more like you. Roland