jimmy white

think this makes simple sence

first of all a big welcome,, im sure youll find the answers to your questions as you go along,, or even look back on the pages of the forum,,there is loads on it that would be of interest to you,, ill try and answer in a condensed sort of post ,, 1st question,, how to loose gracefully 2, i did my learning [and still am after 60 years ;D] from really good genuine fanciers that have won regularly , books , internet[nowadays ;D], even experimenting myself ,, thats the bit about pigeons ,, your allways learning , probably thats the fascination of it 3, some books even allthough outdated can still give you valuable information,, there are plenty newer ones on the go cd,s etc ,,in fact there are some on this site for sale 4 i borrow the brittish homing world ;D 5 most" elites" as you term them , probably form their own methods , but , probably the widowhood system and the yb darkness system seem to be most common,,,,6 if i were beginning from scratch ,, my advice would be get to know, some of the best fliers around you , and" hoover ;D" as much info as poss from them 8 ,, theres as much info on" pigeon basics" to keep you busy and poss successfull [i would hope ],, theres many pages to look back on 9 again all info on pb and a pm system [private message ] to ask anything about pigeons ,,,10 after 60 years,, everything ;D,,,,,,really take a lot of answering these questions my basic advice to you only in my opinion is try to keep things simple,, and just remember the three c,s 1contentment 2 condition 3 control,,,,,,,,,,,,,without any one of these you wont get the other two,,, best of luck mate and wish you well with your pigeons

hope you get it sorted out frank ,, sounds like some one else will have the same ? wrong bird in the box ?

yes i belive the old scraper is best,, but sometimes folks have a dissability or even work awkward times,, some just like deep litter , but any deep litter is ok [just your preferance] but as long as its bone dry ,, any dampness in deep litter is a haven for cocci and worms ,,,, but bone dry,, no probs

think you could well be right larry,,,,,,about he frounce anyway ;D ;D ;D we would get shot here ;) ;D if we used a tweve-bore shotgun,,, and apart from that ;D knowing me,,,,,,i would miss ;D

i have used tapolene ;D ;D for years now , i know its supposed to be better if left , but this has never did my birds any harm,,, the thing is we do have top class water in scotland ,well it does for the whisky ;D

the first year i started on the darkness yb,s they were much the same as yours[even allthough i changed the food]they were fully body moulted ybs ,,like turkeys i finished up [not liking it , but finding it neccessary] using the flag ....., after a few days of this , they soon found out what flying was they then" scouted "or "ranged" for hours. as for your first question,, a lot of fanciers dont like letting them out early mornings ,, after i had done the w hood cocks from 6am till 7 30 am these ybs were out , and did these fly , i am only giving you my veiws on this , but had a very successfull yb season with these birds [ i altered my darkness times to suit]

for what its worth,, i would say first one a yellow,, second one a chocolate ,, but have heard of show pigeon keepers,and show ,, naming these colours different

with due respect to larry , i would seem to have been wrong in my post about ivermectin , poisoning hawks ,,,but i did do as i said in my post , i put the stronger solution of invermectin on a pigeon , which a hawk kept comming back and eating, each time this hawk came back it looked weaker and weaker until it was picked up dead by a neighbour , i was of the understanding that the invermectin [actually equelan , paste ? ] had poisoned this hawk but in looking at your posts, and the internet, it does seem that invermectin will not kill hawks, im sure you will understand my findings and my thinking when this happened to me,, thinking that the ivermectin on this pigeon killed this hawk. since looking at your posts and the internet i was most surprised to see that hawks get many similar illnesses as pigeons i,e cocci, canker [frounce] aspergiliosis and many others ,, the pigeon i used was in fact was an ailing pigeon [a very ill yb] off course this sounds bad , but being attacked by this hawk on many occasions , i had, had obviosly quite enough,, could this ailment of the pigeon ,rather than the ivermectin have killed this hawk this quick [it was handed in on the third day], i have, as i said studied your posts and studied the internet , and through both, have found no evidence of ivermectin poisoning a hawk ,,, but the fact remains this was heavily pasted invermectin ,ailing pigeon , eaten by a hawk [a sparrow hawk] was dead on the third day, and didnt look right on the second day!,,, as i havent seen any proof of this treatment poisoning hawks ,, could this have been the pigeon ailment that killed the hawk?,, and if so , what ailment in a pigeon would kill a hawk this quick ? and also if i may ask, this this happened about 10 years ago [would this be the same product of the "to-day" of ivermectin] also may i also say how i enjoy your posts and find the ongoing debates by our interested parties on " pigeon basics" very interesting indeed ,, so i thank you for that

a big welcome to all the new members who have joined lately ,, wish you all well and enjoyment on forum

sorry this was in answer to this post

proud grandad,, ;D well done wee fifer keep firing them in ;D

no johno,, i think youve taken my post wrongly ,, i am saying with two different races , we would have two different winners ,, both great birds ,, but which one would be better ,,,,,impossible to tell, unless all raced together ,, then there is one winner,the best one

well done Austin

i dont know alf,, but remember i had a young bird win 5 out of 7 races [500-700 birds] inc 2nd fed 6,000 birds , position in yb open race, and yb national , but lost to a bird that had one win and a higher position in yb nat, [think it was the chris catterall trophy,,not sure] i remember the secy phoning me and saying theres nothing to touch your bird,, then phoned back apologising,for jumping the gun ,,saying "i think the panel were more national minded" ,,, so must be a panel but certainly wouldnt like their job,, very difficult to differentiate , as all good pigeons [reply to alfs post ]

i wonder if it would help by keeping a ferret,, i have had them for many years ,, allthough, not everyones cup of tea they can be very tame and playfull ,, their scent glands produce a very strong smell i often" run" them under the loft , house etc, and havent [at least up to now] been bothered by stoats or weasels , they have killed rats , as i live fairly in the country , i have been called for,, with my ferrets , for that reason ,,just a thought

if a club sends 200 birds another 2000 birds ,which is the best winner,?,the , truth is you cant,,,,,the only way to tell the true quality of a pigeon is if all birds went together, then the winner would be the best quality ,,surely

in my opinion this would be the best way forward ,,,,,and not go back the way ,forgive and forget ,,but learn

yes it is an old rule ,, but i think it was in place,,as johno said" b4 that meeting"

lovely boxes and birds , im not quite so sure about the plastic :-/ as with a pair of birds and two big yb,s in the box would maybe cause excessive condensation , but cracking boxes anyway

quite simply ,,no [any member whose subscription is not paid on or before 1st of april, of each year shall be held to have resigned from the club ] ,,, being the snf club

i would say if a yearling couldnt score from sprint to middle ,, dont think it would proove any good [but sometimes anything goes with pigeons ] for the distance i,e 500 miles plus, they usually show their worth after 2 year old ,, but could be far older ,, allthough ive scored with 6 year old at 550 mile being its first win , i think basicly as a yearling , you can get an idea of their worth as racing pigeon by watching which type of race the come well in ,, but if they havent shown any signs by 4 year old ,[for distance], not a lot of chance [but again by the above pigeon , theres allwas exception to the rule ] so my answer would be, it would be up to the manager of the pigeon to have an idea, ,if theve something in them or not :-/

quite simply if a hawk kills a strong or pure ivermectin treated bird on the ist 2cnd day the bird is treated , if a hawk,,,,[ poss one that had killed b4, an untreated bird , at your loft,,, and comes back] then kills and eats a pigeon treated thus , the hawk will die,, as i said in my previous post i am being very carefull with what i post,

wonderfull pics ,, congrats to all the family, especialy the mother who did a marvelous job

you can buy products containing ivermectin from any "pet city shop" these products contain very little ivermectin,, the equest horse wormer is obviously a lot stronger , some actually pure ivermectin , i have used this paste on pigeons , that have won well, so this has done no harm to the pigeon ,, but if a sparrow hawk kills, and eats a pigeon with a" suffice enough strength ivermectin" ,,it would most certainly kill the hawk , this i have pointed out in a very carefull manner ?? [ as this,,, to my knowledge has been proved]