Michael J Burden

It is a Trenton, an oldie family which still flourishes in the USA. I am not sure if the Grooters and the Trentons are conected?

Yes red and very nice even if they do look like yellows.

You mean like this one.

Harky I have no idea then. that pic of the grizzle is a black spread grizzle.

try this

Was your grizzle cock something like this

Was your grizzle cock something like this

The thing is those opals are recessive so could of well have been hiding in those early cheqs etc. It only comes out when both parents give the yb the gene unless of course the cock is an opal.

I know how to break rollers in this way. Keep them a little hungry and get them tuned into you and the tin for food. Once you are happy that they respond to you get some of your birds out for a fly and if you have time lock them out for a while so they have no interest in flying. Get your newbies out with them. And stay with them and teases them with a little food. Only let them have a few minutes out each time and increase the time that they have outside side at each exercise. Then when they are looking like they are happy and familiar with the outside let out your own for a fly, get them in and let the newbies out on their own. If they go up don't worry yet. watch and see what they do. They may start diving and begin looking for you. Call them and encourage them down. If you are having problems getting them dowm go and get one from the loft and play it around out side sending it up and down the loft etc. If this one does not work get another one. A red pigeon or one with white on works best. By keeping them hungry I do not mean starving them, keep them on 50% barley 50% good corn, feed once a day until they leave barely. They remain hungry but are not starving. Hope this helps.

lenwadebob one of the problems when you do not ignore the trouble maker is this. Answers can be given back in the same vane as the poster. This is just as negative and can escalate which helps no one. I agree with you that trouble makers can be sanctioned by mods etc but how is it decided what is a trouble (evil) maker. As I have already said some just need to learn how to express themselves better. Some are trouble (evil) makers and these do need to be routed just like one was recently and banned from another site. (puke) I agree with an eye for an eye but let the mods carry out the measures needed to rectify the issue. On each posting their is an icon which allows the viewer to report the posting.

The trouble is a lot never read what is or has been written otherthan the last posting and go off on one. Here is Stu's first posting.

Jaap van Alphen has a number of birds on the auction sites many of which are pretty colours. I looked at his birds at his stand at Doncaster but sadly his pedigrees do not reveal much. Or I just can not read them because of the language barrier. I no very little about this seller but do like the look of his birds. I seem to recall someone on one ot the sites said they had had some off him. Does anyone know anything about this manand his birds? PS if you have some bad things to say may be you should consider putting it on a PM and not on the thread. Thank you in advance for your replies.

2nd that Bewted.

I take my hat off to the mods, I understand that they do it for free? I am sure that rather than having plenty of time reading what takes their fancy and making their contributions they are reading PM's about problems etc. They have to make a call, sometimes they have neither the time or incling to read every threads individual measages. They can get it wrong too, but we are all human. I am not sure how you can work out who is a trouble maker, some are newbies and just learning the ropes, some are just lacking in rite-in skills and just put it down in a way which can look offensive but was not intended that way. Some are trouble makers out and out, these are usually the same ones who disrupt clubs and particularly their meetings. The way to sort these is not to bite at their sometimes silly writings but to just ignore them. If they want to play they have to learn manners.

Pigeon fanciers in general Stu

It is not surprising you got a grizzle from your white cock. It is a grizzle but so much so it is likely to be a double grizzle which can be pure white and will only if it is produce grizzle ybs. Pure white birds are the product of soem different genes which cause an absence of the actual base colour, ie red, blue or brown. White fantails are a good example. Once you cross a pure white with a bird of a different gene, the hidden colour will unvail itsself. It could be a black one but the odds of this white being a black is very unlikely. You are more likely to win th elottery this week in my view.

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Not sure what has happened except the white bird of Bens spoken about. Can someone enlighten me so I can make my contributions, if I have some?

They had that colour in their old Aardens in the 80's and 90's. Pre the Smaragd birds. I saw them.

Southwells are distance birds? Verottes I think are middle distance? Nice birds.

Well done Stu, It is a shame so many are left behind etc. I would have some but have too many now. Any funny coloured ones there :X

I think our twn has no club based here. It used to have 40 members. I have to travel 24miles round trip to basket. Only a few in this town sent last year and only some old bird races.

A1 6 A2 2 A3 8 A4 1 A5 7 ;)

Number of ways of asking questions. 1. Tell me what you know about the bird?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,very good opener, but probably not going to get your specific question asked. This is much better..... 2. It is called the 5 Wh's? (i) What What do you want for it? (ii) When When did you buy it? (iii) Who Who are you? (iv) Where Where are you living? (v) Why Why are you selling such a good bird? (vi) How How many relatives are winning? Some of the above are useful in asking a seller a question. Not so good.... Has it done anything, mate? ans= "yes" Does not tell you anyhting because it is a closed questionand you gave them the answer which is "yes" To get the answer you want use 5WH's :- What has it done? This means a simple yes and no answer makes no sense. Closed questions give the asker nothing in return but a yes and no answer. Another question is bad too, it is the multi question. ie lots of questions in one sentence. The seller will only answer the ones he thinks make them look good and will conveniently ignore the one you actually wished to ask. It makes it look like he is co-operating. How much is it worth, why are you selling it has it bred any thing, where do you live? The above has only one element which is important. "Has it bred anything?" The answe you may get is. " I paid lots for my team of birds. I have too many birds and Ilive in the Midlands" It should be "What has it bred?" Wait for the answer, it corners them into answering it. If you chuck in too many questions and don't get your answer, you can become frustrated ask another multiple question still you do not the answer you want and ask another and then you look lke the bad guy when in fact you are not, the other guy is being selective in his answers. Hope this helps anyone. What do you think?