Guest Gareth Rankin Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 And Gareth, / Hotrod, with respect even 1 hour of flight till say 11 30 is robbed. Better still, are you saying that if Some birds can and do do it that they should be penerlised? Please explain why it is faier, for I am certainly at a lose there. Futher why not leave out HOD and allow the birds their own merit and time! For surely most 400 - 450 milers are tucked up in their nest box, and the morning like you say is chilled and cold etc. So that in it's self surely is also unfair on the bird flying anothr 2- 300 miles! Very little pigeons will fly past 10.30pm never mind 11.30pm and if any pigeons do this they are not getting penalized they and getting there just rewards for flying in the dark, cold and spending 16-17 hours on the wing to get to there beloved loft. There is no fairest way, all you have is a happy medium.
walterbmasson Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 GarethRankin yes the hrs of darkness is fine ive on complants if the birds get up when they should as early as possible at least its giving the longest flying birds an out side chance getting one one on the day now gareth let the birds go say 7am flying 15 1/2hrs that takes you to10.30 now i would like to think iam speaking for all north fanciers theres no pigeons flying because they are not allowed its pitch black ] so in my simple mind we are giving the south fanciers half hour and i am sure theres a lot of national positions in the second day and i can tell you ive looked at every result one that jumps to my mind was the rennes national in 1999 the birds were released at 5.45am good enough time i was sitting at my loft the back of 10pm with a fur jacket in june it turned out a real stinker other wise a smash just look at the whole result not a bird timed in at 11pm i dont think any at 10.30 pm i clocked that day 125th open 6 hrs clear of next north section bird which was the same family of birds the late george ritchie which often mentioned to me the only way the national will be won up north early lib -------or if were lucky enough to get a mid day liberation --------------------------
REDROCKET Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 this closing time and opening time of long races is a stupid rule there is only a few long distance races and are the ones we all want to win so if your not prepared to sit up through the night or even get your wife up to check loft now and again dont enter. scrap this rule . pathetic in my view.
walterbmasson Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 Garethrankin you have just nailed it on the head go back to the rules of 1990 it should never have been changed the only thing should have been changed any bird clocked in after 10.45 pm will be timed at 4.45am was it 11pm closing time in the pub as they certainly not looking for doos unless they were so full of the jollies and seeing thingies flying about but i can assure you its over sized bats for goodness sake stay out of the bub and take a look up into the sky at 10.45pm i will convert you nothing flys in the skys at night ducks geese bats but sadley we cant time them in >
walterbmasson Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 andy gordons doo was a great performance and certainly the bird was resting and got up to win the national idid not have any away at the kings cup but iwill say you wont get a better block and how much times have i to say a mid day when viable is the best thing for a fair playing and andy i can say with confidence it will happen again if we get a chance which i hope we do but andy what long bird racing is all about and dont think for one miniute i am against fanciers south of us all iam trying to get through to all fanciers that every fancier has the devine right to win the nationals outright and if that is living on another planet i think you should get one a good bit further away so i will repete it again the only way to minimise it when possible go for eap liberation 8) 8)
Roland Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 andy gordons doo was a great performance and certainly the bird was resting and got up to win the national idid not have any away at the kings cup but iwill say you wont get a better block and how much times have i to say a mid day when viable is the best thing for a fair playing and andy i can say with confidence it will happen again if we get a chance which i hope we do but andy what long bird racing is all about and dont think for one miniute i am against fanciers south of us all iam trying to get through to all fanciers that every fancier has the devine right to win the nationals outright and if that is living on another planet i think you should get one a good bit further away so i will repete it again the only way to minimise it when possible go for eap liberation 8) 8) Not true, even in countryside Ducks do fly at night, and likewise a lot more... But agree with your post in the most part... The rockets post is so apt. ... 'this closing time and opening time of long races is a stupid rule there is only a few long distance races and are the ones we all want to win so if your not prepared to sit up through the night or even get your wife up to check loft now and again dont enter. scrap this rule . pathetic in my view'. If just one or two, besides Kipps brothers dozens, are prepared and able to fly on, then it should count. Indeed why penalise such courages birds!?
walterbmasson Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 andy gordons doo was a great performance and certainly the bird was resting and got up to win the national idid not have any away at the kings cup but iwill say you wont get a better block and how much times have i to say a mid day when viable is the best thing for a fair playing and andy i can say with confidence it will happen again if we get a chance which i hope we do but andy what long bird racing is all about and dont think for one miniute i am against fanciers south of us all iam trying to get through to all fanciers that every fancier has the devine right to win the nationals outright and if that is living on another planet i think you should get one a good bit further away so i will repete it again the only way to minimise it when possible go for eap liberation 8) 8)
Guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 frank i,m sorry but your wrong mate it,s the same time not a minute between them exactly the same time ok wont split hairs over a min but the posibilty of someone timeing at exactly 10-45 and exactly 4-30 ???? but the point i was making is that some think there is 5/6 hrs between
BLACK W F Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 Walter i do agree with most of what you have said but some parts i can not agree with over the years there has been some fantastic results put up by the north fanciers birds on the day but late at night i just wonder if these same birds would have made it on the day flying inland off the coast i e inverurie keith elgin no i do not think they would as we all know that it is that bit lighter for longer normally on the coast but i do agree with you mid day lib would be a fairer alternative for all you just have to look back at i think it was Doddie Ross and Davie Perries day birds i think it was around 10 o clock nearly dark Davie clocked his bird i think she won the sect the next morning she was dead on the nest the thoughts where she had hit t v areil not the best idea flying late at night cheers Alan
Guest IB Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 Not reality or truth that. The reason put forward is, and was very glib. Even tongue in cheek to be believed. It was so NO bird had time to cross the channel , to be held up ... Guess the last part as to why.... then let the truths set in. A decent middle coast bird can hop over the 22 miles odd early morning, whilst real distance birds have to fly another 2 - 300 miles or more! Their sceanario further is / was, same for all birds. And again be the SAME weather conditions for all next day! Rubbish. Muscles cold and stiff, need to warm up, -Though I don't thing the chilly channel breeze helps, once flying they will warm. But takes a lot of different elements in it's path home whilst the middle distance bird sis nicely it's it nest box for the next 6 - 8 hours even whilst the distance bird has to do the extra miles. And the cheeky gits still advertise and word as a Distance winner lol. Roland, I think you are taking me out of the current context of this thread - HOD / Libs in Scottish National Channel Racing. Our races are all from North France, so they're over the water early-on, and not hours and hours after liberation. Only last year (in an inland race?) birds were liberated though the 'North Section' and everything North of the Tay was blanked out by bad weather, and it remained so all day - as forecasted. There was a comment on here that this always happens ('North section doesn't count'). So they will liberate when some parts (Scotland?) aren't clear, but is that fair?
walterbmasson Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 black w.f aberdeen is another 40 mls to elgin buckie banff fraserburgh doddie roos was a very close friend of mine over the years i regard him is an all time great that showed at his clearence sale he visited my loft had a good few drams a good job mike massie was there with him or i would have clocked him many times he was a great character i think mike went away home that night and missed the bird davie pirie may correct me but ithink tried to fly down a few times before he got it in it was so dark it was after 10 pm may be 10.30 pm some one will put a light on it but that dosent alter the fact if the birds are up as early as possible it gives a tired bird time to find a place to roost the nearer the bird is to home it will be more willing to rise the next day
Roland Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 Well what I will leave as a part farewell to this subject, How many times have were heard, and repeated every season times too, that ' .... the winner will be on the loft at 4 300 wait hunched up and waiting to get in' Now does anyone believe thaey were on nexts door's roof the night before, or an hour or so away and flew that 1 hour or more getting home? Indeed how many would clock in between hod if given the chance and an early lib! quite a few I'd wager. Hence that is why I say every power to the elbow, and am more interested in the genuine birds that will, would, do and have, than any contrived meddling, or any unnessary reasons.
BLACK W F Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 walter i think you missed the point i was trying to make on the coast it is lighter longer than inland but that night it was dark earlier as i am a good friend of davies cheers alan
walterbmasson Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 i.b your dead right north of scotland does not count were notasking for much just to be treated fairly as you know your self we have mentioned different ways of trying to make the other members of the snfc see that north of scotland is being frozen out if another fairer way race closes after last bird timed at night fanciers have to verifie day birds so wont be no problem more food for thought 8) 8)
hotrod Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 ok wont split hairs over a min but the posibilty of someone timeing at exactly 10-45 and exactly 4-30 ???? but the point i was making is that some think there is 5/6 hrs between frank the point i was making was, if its 10:45 or later it goes back to 10:45, up to midnight and is creditied as a day bird,birds timed in at 04:45 or before is credited with the time of 04:45 but second day bird,BUT if you time at 10:45pm or later and i fly 1 yard further than you or even a fraction of a yard further and i time in at 04:45 or before i will beat you because we are both timed in at the same time but i fly further so my velocity will be higher it,s as simple as that, thats the rules
walterbmasson Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 alan peterhead and fraserburgh is the most eastmost point in scotland iam not going into whats the lightest and darkest but iam willing to put afun bet when the wind is into the east or north its darker on the coast and and certainly more colder i will never forget whenmy red cock won the sec from the last rennes smash it was baltic in june i am sure some peterhead fancier will answer you as its colder there :-/ :-/ :-/
me Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 you guys suggesting that HOD should be scrubbed are missing the point. In effect all you would be doing is closing the race earlier than it does at present, or you would have to make the closing velocity lower to compensate.
dkj Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 eddy mann of johnshaven timed in at 11.25 pm 2 be 2nd open rennes
walterbmasson Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 me vet of loft we dont want to change anything all we want is to scrap this ludicrous rule that was changed in 1990 back to status quo this rule was passed to cruicfy the longest flying members eddie manns bird is a true champion he timed in at that time eddie is in another region from us the furthest flying birds had another 60mls to go what chance had they none=================================== long way
Guest Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 hotrod i agree thats the way it should be lets face it if we had two birds drop together and you beat me on the trap thats life yours won no probs. from me if its that close the are both good birds walter i have heard enough about all the stuff about north birds/fanciers yes they are very brave to fly up there but if not wrong it looks as though you want them to liberate regardless of weather and while iam on about it maybe we should change the N/W wind to an S/E to give the west boys a fair chance after all they have to fly most of the way with a nose on wind i honestly think they are at a far more disadvantage than the north
blackswan Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 i have said this before give me a bird on the day then second day birds are second day birds and not at the race
Roland Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 me vet of loft we dont want to change anything all we want is to scrap this ludicrous rule that was changed in 1990 back to status quo this rule was passed to cruicfy the longest flying members eddie manns bird is a true champion he timed in at that time eddie is in another region from us the furthest flying birds had another 60mls to go what chance had they none=================================== long way Agree 100% and not just Eddie Manns, been a lot, even , was going to say 3 years back.... but in all honesty, just about EVERY year, and more than one. Golly when it happens in the likes of the MNFC, then it can and does happen anywhere.
Big Davie Posted January 14, 2009 Report Posted January 14, 2009 hotrod i agree thats the way it should be lets face it if we had two birds drop together and you beat me on the trap thats life yours won no probs. from me if its that close the are both good birds walter i have heard enough about all the stuff about north birds/fanciers yes they are very brave to fly up there but if not wrong it looks as though you want them to liberate regardless of weather and while iam on about it maybe we should change the N/W wind to an S/E to give the west boys a fair chance after all they have to fly most of the way with a nose on wind i honestly think they are at a far more disadvantage than the north Well said Frank, thought i was the only one who was thinking along these lines. Davie.
walterbmasson Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Posted January 14, 2009 frankdooman i never once said let the birds go in bad weather and all the years i have raced birds ive complained about what direction the weather n.s.e.or.west but i am sorry and appoligise but i cant help it if your birds cant navigate in certain winds the post is about if its a chance to get the birds up early if its a chance ps.send 2 rings i will send a couple that will cheers 8) 8) 8)
BLACK W F Posted January 14, 2009 Report Posted January 14, 2009 walter i take your point of view on board there has been a lot of good posts on this thread but in the end we must all agree each and every one of us has a different opinion on whats fair and not fair Franks point on the west side birds is spot on and yet some great performances have been put up by them as some in the north we live in a country dominated by west winds so you would expect these to favour the east side which it does lets all agree lifes not fair and thats just the way things are cheers Alan
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