Snfc Billericay June 7th - Change Of Racepoint

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Some might find my response a bit strange considering i have little or no interest in the Inland Nationals and wouldn't miss them one bit if they were thrown out, BUT!! a National club should appeal to, and cater for, everyone in the country including the sprint/mid distance fanciers. We (distance minded fanciers) have 4 channel races to send to, and no one holds a gun to our heads to enter these shorter races, however i think that there should be separate Averages to compete for within the club that would identify the best fanciers at the different distances raced at by the members.

Maybe one set of averages for the 2 Inlands plus Ypres, and another set for the other 3 longer channel races plus Ypres. I think Ypres should count in both as it is on the long side of Mid distance into the central belt, but it is very much a long distance race for fanciers farther North, and it is still a Channel race for everyone regardless of distance. That way there is something for everyone to race for. JMO.

 

Good post John!!!

I think that there is a lot of re-organisation needed within the fancy. I think the old Federation system of clubs is just about played out due to current circumstances. I accept that this system still works in some areas, but not everywhere.

The SHU should govern the fancy, the National(s) should organise the long distance races, Combines the middle distance and federations the sprints.

A lot of work to re-organise, but fanciers could have sprint racing every week, either midweek or weekends or even both. Middle distance could start part way through the season then long distance later. If it was organised properly all programmes would meld together to help each other. When Long and middle distance races were on, the transporters lying dormant could be used for the sprints, etc.

I do appreciate that this is a simplistic view and there would be many logistical problems, but that is where the experienced fanciers would have to come into play to work it out. I think if it could be pulled off, the fancy could benefit and perhaps even start to flourish again.

[dal2]

Some might find my response a bit strange considering i have little or no interest in the Inland Nationals and wouldn't miss them one bit if they were thrown out, BUT!! a National club should appeal to, and cater for, everyone in the country including the sprint/mid distance fanciers. We (distance minded fanciers) have 4 channel races to send to, and no one holds a gun to our heads to enter these shorter races, however i think that there should be separate Averages to compete for within the club that would identify the best fanciers at the different distances raced at by the members.

Maybe one set of averages for the 2 Inlands plus Ypres, and another set for the other 3 longer channel races plus Ypres. I think Ypres should count in both as it is on the long side of Mid distance into the central belt, but it is very much a long distance race for fanciers farther North, and it is still a Channel race for everyone regardless of distance. That way there is something for everyone to race for. JMO.

Aye yer quite right JOHN. BUT!! If yer race points were too far left or right then it wouldnae matter a hoot to some. I canny see a massive diffo between the the pair.

[JohnQuinn]

Good post John!!!

I think that there is a lot of re-organisation needed within the fancy. I think the old Federation system of clubs is just about played out due to current circumstances. I accept that this system still works in some areas, but not everywhere.

The SHU should govern the fancy, the National(s) should organise the long distance races, Combines the middle distance and federations the sprints.

A lot of work to re-organise, but fanciers could have sprint racing every week, either midweek or weekends or even both. Middle distance could start part way through the season then long distance later. If it was organised properly all programmes would meld together to help each other. When Long and middle distance races were on, the transporters lying dormant could be used for the sprints, etc.

I do appreciate that this is a simplistic view and there would be many logistical problems, but that is where the experienced fanciers would have to come into play to work it out. I think if it could be pulled off, the fancy could benefit and perhaps even start to flourish again.

 

Another good idea you have there Andy, and suppose none of us are right, at least these are idea's on ways the committee could develop the club again. Am sure there are many other idea's out there and it would be down to the officials to produce something out of the idea's for everyone to enjoy and take part in. One Glaring fact is that MANY members of the club are unhappy with things as they are just now.

[JohnQuinn]

Aye yer quite right JOHN. BUT!! If yer race points were too far left or right then it wouldnae matter a hoot to some. I canny see a massive diffo between the the pair.

 

You're also right Steven, i'm no saying my idea is right though, just an opinion on how i Personally would like to see things done, but am only one member. One thing that is Certain though, is not EVERYONE would be happy with change no matter how the club was reconfigured, but if the Majority are happy then that is all the officials can do.

[Guest IB]

Ian, That is not correct. I proposed the race program, because the only difference between the 2 proposed programmes was Billericay/Buckingham. I suggested to change my programme to Buckingham instead off Billericay. This was shot down in flames immediately I had said it by the members present at the meeting.

 

John B

 

John there were a number of crucial differences between the two race programs put forward for consideration at the AGM. IMO what swayed the vote in favour of the one adopted was not the race points but the Committee's proposal to change the Gold Cup from a Friday liberation to Saturday. This was also the first AGM to deliberate on pre-submitted written programs. In a major change from past practice, races and dates proposed on each program could not be altered, it was a straight vote for accepting one program or the other.

 

Buckingham was also put on that program because unlike previous years' Newbury, it was on the east coast line of flight flown by the majority of Scottish Feds, and pitched at a better distance for the majority of those Feds, for whom a 300+ mile race in first week of June means a jump of over 100 miles from their race leading up to it. It was hoped that this would also help increase the birdage in the race.

[frankdooman]

Have read both your posts john/ Andy I was on the snfc committee at the time wee voted for the 1 st inland nat and it was said it would be the ruin of the snfc and what it stood for and I admit I voted in favour of the inland I wish I could turn the clock back some might not like what iam about to say but here goes the snfc was started for LONG distance (over the water) now wee have two inland and the more wee allow this there could be a situation when wee end up with more middle distance members than distance and if put to a vote wee could end up with more inland races than distance let's get back to basics combine racing inland and nat for the distance as for the shu running the snfc the snfc are the founder members of the shu the 1st club formed was the snfc so I can't see that happen if you are feeling let down by the guy,s leading the snfc then put your self up for the jobs but even if wee don't like it they are trying there best yes agree they might need to take note of what the members want JMO

[Rebus]

Have read both your posts john/ Andy I was on the snfc committee at the time wee voted for the 1 st inland nat and it was said it would be the ruin of the snfc and what it stood for and I admit I voted in favour of the inland I wish I could turn the clock back some might not like what iam about to say but here goes the snfc was started for LONG distance (over the water) now wee have two inland and the more wee allow this there could be a situation when wee end up with more middle distance members than distance and if put to a vote wee could end up with more inland races than distance let's get back to basics combine racing inland and nat for the distance as for the shu running the snfc the snfc are the founder members of the shu the 1st club formed was the snfc so I can't see that happen if you are feeling let down by the guy,s leading the snfc then put your self up for the jobs but even if wee don't like it they are trying there best yes agree they might need to take note of what the members want JMO

[Rebus]

Have read both your posts john/ Andy I was on the snfc committee at the time wee voted for the 1 st inland nat and it was said it would be the ruin of the snfc and what it stood for and I admit I voted in favour of the inland I wish I could turn the clock back some might not like what iam about to say but here goes the snfc was started for LONG distance (over the water) now wee have two inland and the more wee allow this there could be a situation when wee end up with more middle distance members than distance and if put to a vote wee could end up with more inland races than distance let's get back to basics combine racing inland and nat for the distance as for the shu running the snfc the snfc are the founder members of the shu the 1st club formed was the snfc so I can't see that happen if you are feeling let down by the guy,s leading the snfc then put your self up for the jobs but even if wee don't like it they are trying there best yes agree they might need to take note of what the members want JMO

Well said Frank,the worst thing that happened to the SNFC was the introduction of old bird inland races.

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Correct

[dal2]

Why are they bad? Have former distance men packed it in for a glory hunt at 300 mile?? No sure about that. Have the inland nats paid their own way and provided racing for all in a sport in decline?Hmm.The arguement about the inlands taking away entries for the water races? Am i the only one that uses these for prep races for the water? I think not.

 

I suspect that more DISTANCE MEN are now having a shot at Ypres? Why is that? Is it the same reason that the inland nats are more popular?

 

Come on lads we must cater for all and move with the times. If ye dont like them dont send, simples, keep yer doos for the water

[Rebus]

Why are they bad? Have former distance men packed it in for a glory hunt at 300 mile?? No sure about that. Have the inland nats paid their own way and provided racing for all in a sport in decline?Hmm.The arguement about the inlands taking away entries for the water races? Am i the only one that uses these for prep races for the water? I think not.

 

I suspect that more DISTANCE MEN are now having a shot at Ypres? Why is that? Is it the same reason that the inland nats are more popular?

 

Come on lads we must cater for all and move with the times. If ye dont like them dont send, simples, keep yer doos for the water

[Rebus]

If I don't send to these inland races I cant compete for the averages which is what every dedicated distance man wants to win. Federations can provide me with preparation races .

[dal2]

If I don't send to these inland races I cant compete for the averages which is what every dedicated distance man wants to win. Federations can provide me with preparation races .

I dinny have enuff birds to fly every race so thats me out every year, so maybe no every dedicated distance man?

[JohnQuinn]

Have read both your posts john/ Andy I was on the snfc committee at the time wee voted for the 1 st inland nat and it was said it would be the ruin of the snfc and what it stood for and I admit I voted in favour of the inland I wish I could turn the clock back some might not like what iam about to say but here goes the snfc was started for LONG distance (over the water) now wee have two inland and the more wee allow this there could be a situation when wee end up with more middle distance members than distance and if put to a vote wee could end up with more inland races than distance let's get back to basics combine racing inland and nat for the distance as for the shu running the snfc the snfc are the founder members of the shu the 1st club formed was the snfc so I can't see that happen if you are feeling let down by the guy,s leading the snfc then put your self up for the jobs but even if wee don't like it they are trying there best yes agree they might need to take note of what the members want JMO

 

So its aw your fault we're talkin aboot this Frank

[scottym7]

I agree Frank, however as you know i only started a few years back and for the novice/virgin fancier could i compete in over the channel?? as my first adventure was Ypres and what a buzz i got from that however to date i have not got any further, possibly down to all the feather merchants i was sucked in by therefore IMO we need at least one inland to attract new comers as if their was no inland races i would possibly not be a member and i am sure other new starters would feel the same and they all need encouraged.

 

Scotty M

[Guest bigda]

would think the middle distance races have to stay, in the nat 1 they provide money for Admin, and there are a few fanciers that don't have clubs to fly in so this gives them prep races for over the water and a chance to lift the odd pool now, as the birdage is at its maximum, AGREE IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED AT THE START. so it now looks like 4 races that are going to attract members 2 inland and the gold cup and the young bird race.

Edited May 9, 2014 by bigda

[Kyleakin Lofts]

I am not even a member of the national club(s), but I am talking from my own viewpoint. I do have experience in other fancies. It used to be that you gained your experience through the club, then open competitions, then the champion competitions. In pigeons, most realised that it would take time to learn enough to accomplish anything.

Nowadays, everyone seems to want the top, the best, and they want it right away. For these reasons they are conned by the promise of buying success.

Truth is, you cannot buy success!!!

There are three requirements to be successful in pigeon racing. Good pigeons, good system and good fancier. The success depends upon the meld which is different depending on the particular discipline, sprint, middle or distance.

Good pigeons can be ruined by a poor system and fancier. Poor pigeons will not shine no matter the system or fancier when compared with good pigeons under the same parameters. A good fancier will achieve more with poor pigeons no matter the system than a poor fancier would. Add to all that the imponderables within pigeon racing and a large smattering of luck is required.

A governing body is required in any discipline, however, such body should never overstep the mark. It should realise its purpose is regularity and administration.

The Federation system was good in the heyday of the fancy, but they were set up when racing was predominantly towards the south and tended to be grouped in that way. a lot of today's racing is towards the east, be it south east or not, no longer the original direction and as such the Federations have suffered unrest.

Re-grouping the fancy may be a lost cause, but if it is then the end is nigh. If the end is not nigh, then re-grouping could be worthwhile.

I would place National long distance racing over the channel at the pinnacle. This is the elite. it takes time and patience to build a family of birds to compete regularly at this level and a life's work can be destroyed by one poor decision, or a series of poor decisions. For this reason, National Clubs require leadership and programmes conducive to their ends.

Middle distance, whilst by no manner or means being easy, is easier than distance and should be supportive of the distance programmes. If there were enough decent middle distance races, the long distance programme could be served far better.

Sprint allows more errors. I have made them and my pigeons have saved the day for me. OK, I don't compete, but my returns are improving and my experience is growing.

I am old, but I never expected overnight success. I enjoy my hobby and hope to compete one day, at the distance, the pinnacle.

I hope it is still there when I am ready.

Inland Nationals, Channel Nationals, there is only the Gold Cup, THE race which I believe should also be the longest, I never understood why it wasn't.

[frankdooman]

Can't disagree with what's been said about the money side that's the reason these races started but the nat eventually got it's self out the money situation with some very hard work from a few very good dedicated fanciers John Grey been one of them yes at the start the extra money from inland race helped but the bulk of the funds came from the true long distance fanatics sales/ etc. and the big question is does the means justify the end iam not saying don't try and cater for the fanciers that want these racers but if wee could get a sub committee why not let the snfc organise combine for the whole of Scotland and keep it completely separate then hand over to an elected combine officials but before that the snfc needs to plug the big black hole that's leaking money that's the hard part wee are all suffering the effects of falling members / birdage but they can be solved

[jbee]

Frank, I must agree with all you have said, but these days as in a previous post states we are in the minority group I would imagine of members of the SNFC which would prefer distances of 500-600 mls for all our racing as in the 70's to early 90's to the central belt. Was it not the late Reverend Sam Ovens when president who wanted to have SNFC take over all races over 250 mls -600 mls and have a race every 2nd week.

 

John B