Snfc Longest Race

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

And what about bob whytes jubilee express 7th open 13 hrs from nantes 723 miles on the day ? But all these birds were given the chance ta home on the day if birds are not up at latest 6am should be mid day lib and i can assure you there would be a lot more great performances at the distance thats a fact but any way hope ye all that send get good birds at the distance cheers

 

Unreal Walter

 

Think it was a UK record held until recently when Brian Denny clocked one from 748 miles on the day

 

May be wrong with this one though

 

Remember my first ever attempt at Nantes when i was 18yrs old in 1976 with a blue cheq hen Su73 s 10079 clocked 2nd morning at 6-20 am to be 14th open I was still in bed in the attic room when my dad burst through the door with the hen in one hand and the stb clock in the other f-- sh-- ma sell ,That hen went on to breed the finest pigeon i ever raced 3 times rennes on the shift with 7500 behind her each time best performance 16 1/2 hours on the wing bought ma first car wae nae rust with the winnings While i was at wembley in 77 watching scotland stuff england the nantes hen won 1st cheltenham briefly until the secretary phoned my uncle as he was the only yin with a phone to pass on the news to my dad that we had been relegated to second by a decimal when he and the president re done the result the president got first anyway that will no happen noo cause he's deed :lol:

Oh Happy Days.

 

Superb

[midnight_son]

Could yourself or anyone who has sent to this race give an insight into how to prepare a pigeon to compete at a race like this?

 

Geordie,

 

Nothing radical really and there is more than one way to skin a cat so there will be other equally effective methods. We are fairly old fashioned I guess but down south there are plenty of widowhood birds at the top of the results flying 700 miles whereas we are still pairing up before they go. If I get faither's arm up his back we might experiment with trying widowhood/roundabout at the long races as the training of natural birds is pretty terrifying these days due to raptors and there is nothing worse than losing a leading candidate at the last couple of tosses before they go.

 

We prepare the same as we do for all the channel races. Assuming they have plenty experience as in out to 200 miles plus as YBs and flown to the coast as yearlings then every channel race is under consideration. We try and spread them out so that we have a decent entry in terms of quality across all the long races. If they're natural birds they get between 3 and 5 inland races depending on how hard the season is, fingers crossed that they get a bit of time on the wing somewhere to bring them on. We have also had success with birds on roundabout for the early season and then paired up for their chosen national and that is likely to be our method in future as it reduces the amount of training needed during the season and the risks associated with that. Once paired up and sitting for the nest condition we want they get trained hard up to the weekend before basketting then a few days rest before they go. They get increased carbohydrates in the build up to the race and nothing in the water at all although I have tried garlic and aviform etc. Didn't do any harm but clearly not essential - won't turn a plodder into a hero.

 

For our family, we generally set them up to have a 2 day old baby at basketting, certainly for hens and very occasionally try something different for cocks. That is our standard preparation but motivation is different for different birds so its each to their own.

 

Thats about it really but at that distance the bloodlines have to be right and are probably more important than the details of the preparations. You can tweak things and try different ways but no matter what the fancier does its still going to be a big ask for the pigeon. At some point in a typical Tours national it is most likely going to find itself alone and tired and it has to make the choice whether to drop or keep plugging away. If it doesn't have the inbuilt drive/desire to keep going then the extra carbs and the potion in the drinker won't make it.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Apologies for what is likely to be a long post but this race is one of the highlights of my year and has provided some great moments. I hope the race never dies and I think there are things that could be done to revive it. I may be biased as my dad and I have had a lot of success at the race in recent times and I was brought up to think of it as the most important race of the year. I wish it was more competitive and more members would have a go at it. In other national clubs the longest race is the big one i.e. Barcelona in the BICC/BBC, Tarbes in the NFC. The most celebrated pigeons in Europe are still the 600 milers and beyond but for some reason in Scotland, we've got a downer on it. Maybe its the lack of international opportunities that our neighbours have down south.

 

When I was growing up with national racing through the late 80s and early 90s my dad religiously voted for the Nantes race to be the gold cup when they used to have the vote on the Rennes entry sheet. This always puzzled me as at that time we were hopeless at the long race but were banging them in from Sartilly and Rennes as it was then. I couldn’t understand why he was voting for a race that we could hardly get on the result from to be the big one when all our success was in the 500 to 550 races. He stuck to his convictions that the 600 mile race was the ultimate test and has held that view ever since and luckily our results at it have improved.

 

There are some misconceptions about the race which don’t help it’s cause and a better understanding/appreciation of the race is needed. Here are a couple of things that I think a majority of members wrongly believe.

 

1. That it is “always†a hard race, and there are never day pigeons and you’ll be hanging about for 3 days waiting. That is rubbish. As with all racepoints, you do get a hard one every so often and clearly if you get a hard one from 600 miles plus then it’ll be worse than normal. However in recent seasons we’ve seen Dave Pirie win it in Aberdeen timing in fairly early on the day in quite a fast race but even on a steadier day my dad was 2nd open in 2006 and 2011 timing on the day for 612 miles (mother and son). Tours to us is 612 miles and on a 40mph day that is only 15 hours 20 mins. I say only but if you think you’re a good long distance flyer with the right stock then a 15 hour fly won’t scare you unduly. I’m sure plenty on here have tales of 15, 16, even 17 hours on the shift. There is nothing better than that.

 

I can just about remember the 1984 Nantes race, aged 7. My dad, neighbour John Bosworth and John Ellis (Elphinstone, not Wellbank) had all timed on the night into the village and were on a real high. When the race closed and clocks were controlled I was sent off to bed of course but I gather the three of them ended up staying up all night, having a drink and playing pool or snooker in the back garden until it was time for the race to re-open on 2nd day. That doesn’t happen at Clermont. It was the buzz of doing it at the longest race that had so pleased them. Nowadays its all this doom and gloom about it lasting 3 days but it doesn’t have to be like that.

 

2. You need an old warrior that has loads of experience for this race. No you don’t, you need a good pigeon, bred for the job and given enough experience for the task without damaging its willingness to give you everything. I hear a lot of folk saying they’re trying the long race because they have a bird that has done 3 or 4 channel races always on the 2nd day and isn’t fast enough so will be ideal for the long race. That’s the wrong attitude to take, we used to do it ourselves until the penny dropped. If you send a bird that is hours behind at 500 miles then it will be the same hours behind plus a few more at 600 miles, it might scrape a position on a scattered result if the race has run to a 2nd afternoon or 3rd day but its not going to do 600 on the day to win the race or the section. These veterans know what it is to sit out and come home in their own time on 2nd day so it doesn’t worry them. I think you need a fairly unspoiled bird, something that doesn’t want to sit out and will keep going when the wings are tired to get home or as close to home as possible on the first day. Examples of the type of bird we’ve sent in the last 10 years or so, as you can see these were largely fresh pigeons, not scarred by lots of nights out and hard races:-

 

10th open Chenoise – 2nd time over

2nd open Chenoise – 3rd time over

2nd open Tours – 1st time over

5th open Tours – 1st time over

8th open Andrezel – 2nd time over

4th open Bourges – 1st time over

2nd open Tours -2nd time over

 

3. Its too for/ too difficult so I’ll give it a miss. If you are already flying the channel then it’s not that much of a leap. A light tail wind at 600 miles will see the birds home in less hours than a head wind in the gold cup. I don’t understand the reluctance of folk to have a go, just try it. Its only a normal gold cup with 2 hours flying tacked onto it, it’s a challenge but far from impossible.

 

A couple of things I’d like to see happen that would improve the appeal of the race:

 

1. I’d like to see the section, region and overall national averages given a lot more of a push. That should be the main aim of the season for members. Its virtually impossible to win any single national race outright but if you can demonstrate that you can spread your team out to be in the hunt at every race that should mean just as much as someone hitting a home run one week and never being seen for the rest of the year. Too many members just write off the longest race because they don’t try for the national averages but in the club racing the averages are the most prestigious thing. Nobody remembers who won Selby in the club but they all know who won the averages. If you’re not in a location to win the outright averages then go for your region and section averages, still a great achievement. If the averages became important to everyone then automatically more would try the long race as they’d need a time-in to win them. The thought of missing a channel race should be too painful to contemplate. I’d rather have 1 or 2 at each than send 6 to Alencon and skip Tours.

 

2. I think the race would be better supported and attract more attention from the members in general if it was on a different day to Ypres. It loses a bit of the spotlight when the two are on the same day and if it stood alone it might get more members to send who are currently happy to get their race that weekend from Ypres. Pigeon men like a race and if you put a race onto a blank weekend then chances are a few more would send than when they have 2 options on same day.

 

What an excellent post!!!

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Geordie,

 

Nothing radical really and there is more than one way to skin a cat so there will be other equally effective methods. We are fairly old fashioned I guess but down south there are plenty of widowhood birds at the top of the results flying 700 miles whereas we are still pairing up before they go. If I get faither's arm up his back we might experiment with trying widowhood/roundabout at the long races as the training of natural birds is pretty terrifying these days due to raptors and there is nothing worse than losing a leading candidate at the last couple of tosses before they go.

 

We prepare the same as we do for all the channel races. Assuming they have plenty experience as in out to 200 miles plus as YBs and flown to the coast as yearlings then every channel race is under consideration. We try and spread them out so that we have a decent entry in terms of quality across all the long races. If they're natural birds they get between 3 and 5 inland races depending on how hard the season is, fingers crossed that they get a bit of time on the wing somewhere to bring them on. We have also had success with birds on roundabout for the early season and then paired up for their chosen national and that is likely to be our method in future as it reduces the amount of training needed during the season and the risks associated with that. Once paired up and sitting for the nest condition we want they get trained hard up to the weekend before basketting then a few days rest before they go. They get increased carbohydrates in the build up to the race and nothing in the water at all although I have tried garlic and aviform etc. Didn't do any harm but clearly not essential - won't turn a plodder into a hero.

 

For our family, we generally set them up to have a 2 day old baby at basketting, certainly for hens and very occasionally try something different for cocks. That is our standard preparation but motivation is different for different birds so its each to their own.

 

Thats about it really but at that distance the bloodlines have to be right and are probably more important than the details of the preparations. You can tweak things and try different ways but no matter what the fancier does its still going to be a big ask for the pigeon. At some point in a typical Tours national it is most likely going to find itself alone and tired and it has to make the choice whether to drop or keep plugging away. If it doesn't have the inbuilt drive/desire to keep going then the extra carbs and the potion in the drinker won't make it.

 

Another post full of interesting information. Thanks.

[dava]

Geordie,

 

Nothing radical really and there is more than one way to skin a cat so there will be other equally effective methods. We are fairly old fashioned I guess but down south there are plenty of widowhood birds at the top of the results flying 700 miles whereas we are still pairing up before they go. If I get faither's arm up his back we might experiment with trying widowhood/roundabout at the long races as the training of natural birds is pretty terrifying these days due to raptors and there is nothing worse than losing a leading candidate at the last couple of tosses before they go.

 

We prepare the same as we do for all the channel races. Assuming they have plenty experience as in out to 200 miles plus as YBs and flown to the coast as yearlings then every channel race is under consideration. We try and spread them out so that we have a decent entry in terms of quality across all the long races. If they're natural birds they get between 3 and 5 inland races depending on how hard the season is, fingers crossed that they get a bit of time on the wing somewhere to bring them on. We have also had success with birds on roundabout for the early season and then paired up for their chosen national and that is likely to be our method in future as it reduces the amount of training needed during the season and the risks associated with that. Once paired up and sitting for the nest condition we want they get trained hard up to the weekend before basketting then a few days rest before they go. They get increased carbohydrates in the build up to the race and nothing in the water at all although I have tried garlic and aviform etc. Didn't do any harm but clearly not essential - won't turn a plodder into a hero.

 

For our family, we generally set them up to have a 2 day old baby at basketting, certainly for hens and very occasionally try something different for cocks. That is our standard preparation but motivation is different for different birds so its each to their own.

 

Thats about it really but at that distance the bloodlines have to be right and are probably more important than the details of the preparations. You can tweak things and try different ways but no matter what the fancier does its still going to be a big ask for the pigeon. At some point in a typical Tours national it is most likely going to find itself alone and tired and it has to make the choice whether to drop or keep plugging away. If it doesn't have the inbuilt drive/desire to keep going then the extra carbs and the potion in the drinker won't make it.

good post jamie excellent stuff

[geordie1234]

Geordie,

 

Nothing radical really and there is more than one way to skin a cat so there will be other equally effective methods. We are fairly old fashioned I guess but down south there are plenty of widowhood birds at the top of the results flying 700 miles whereas we are still pairing up before they go. If I get faither's arm up his back we might experiment with trying widowhood/roundabout at the long races as the training of natural birds is pretty terrifying these days due to raptors and there is nothing worse than losing a leading candidate at the last couple of tosses before they go.

 

We prepare the same as we do for all the channel races. Assuming they have plenty experience as in out to 200 miles plus as YBs and flown to the coast as yearlings then every channel race is under consideration. We try and spread them out so that we have a decent entry in terms of quality across all the long races. If they're natural birds they get between 3 and 5 inland races depending on how hard the season is, fingers crossed that they get a bit of time on the wing somewhere to bring them on. We have also had success with birds on roundabout for the early season and then paired up for their chosen national and that is likely to be our method in future as it reduces the amount of training needed during the season and the risks associated with that. Once paired up and sitting for the nest condition we want they get trained hard up to the weekend before basketting then a few days rest before they go. They get increased carbohydrates in the build up to the race and nothing in the water at all although I have tried garlic and aviform etc. Didn't do any harm but clearly not essential - won't turn a plodder into a hero.

 

For our family, we generally set them up to have a 2 day old baby at basketting, certainly for hens and very occasionally try something different for cocks. That is our standard preparation but motivation is different for different birds so its each to their own.

 

Thats about it really but at that distance the bloodlines have to be right and are probably more important than the details of the preparations. You can tweak things and try different ways but no matter what the fancier does its still going to be a big ask for the pigeon. At some point in a typical Tours national it is most likely going to find itself alone and tired and it has to make the choice whether to drop or keep plugging away. If it doesn't have the inbuilt drive/desire to keep going then the extra carbs and the potion in the drinker won't make it.

 

 

Thanks really much for the reply it was very informative.

 

Too anyone's knowledge has a yearling ever scored at this race?

[Guest JSD]

Jock Ellis of wellbank timed a dark yearling cock to win eigth open but cant remember what year it was.

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

Jock Ellis of wellbank timed a dark yearling cock to win eigth open but cant remember what year it was.

 

Sure he was 11th open with a bird that had been at Rennes fer a 'pipe opener' before hand

[walterboswell59]

Thanks really much for the reply it was very informative.

 

Too anyone's knowledge has a yearling ever scored at this race?

plenty times george

[geordie1234]

Cheers guys takes a lot of nerve and belief in your pigeon to send them but then again if you have the cattle for the job its a different story I suppose

[franny41]

Remember my first ever attempt at Nantes when i was 18yrs old in 1976 with a blue cheq hen Su73 s 10079 clocked 2nd morning at 6-20 am to be 14th open I was still in bed in the attic room when my dad burst through the door with the hen in one hand and the stb clock in the other f-- sh-- ma sell ,That hen went on to breed the finest pigeon i ever raced 3 times rennes on the shift with 7500 behind her each time best performance 16 1/2 hours on the wing bought ma first car wae nae rust with the winnings While i was at wembley in 77 watching scotland stuff england the nantes hen won 1st cheltenham briefly until the secretary phoned my uncle as he was the only yin with a phone to pass on the news to my dad that we had been relegated to second by a decimal when he and the president re done the result the president got first anyway that will no happen noo cause he's deed :lol:

Oh Happy Days.

 

F@ckin Brilliant am pi@shin masel here :lol:

[jakie]

racing post a bit dull today Jamie ?

[1967]

racing post a bit dull today Jamie ?

don't think you can send yearlings to the longest race . maybe changed .

[walterboswell59]

don't think you can send yearlings to the longest race . maybe changed .

you can send yearlings to any race m8 one of my pals vince hendry was 5th west section nantes years ago with a yearling blue hen that had not even been prepared for the race he sent it because it was right and kean on its nest

[midnight_son]

racing post a bit dull today Jamie ?

 

Aye, I had to forego the Racing Post to chip into this thread. How's The Scotsman or have you gone native and got the Star ?