Radar And Racing Pigeons

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Looking through the BHW this morning and came across on page 24 the question:-

 

"Would you please discuss the effect of radar on pigeons and on Homing"

 

including

No 2

Where a trial was carried out at a radar station that was switched on, were 20 pigeons from 2 lofts were liberated 15km from there home town which was in there visibility at liberation of the Radar site. The birds were there best old and experienced pigeons.

Upon the basket being opened they walked out and did not fly up, staying on the ground. Having being chased they began circling the station very low above the ground. After almost 60 mins four pigeons broke from the group and flew towards their lofts. At this point the radar was switched off and a few birds settled on nearby buildings while the others flew of in the wrong direction! The next morning three homed and by that evening 16 had returned home. The remaining 4 homed three days later in a state of complete exhaustion.

 

On another occasion a release from this site while the radar was switched off, the birds grouped and immediately flew home.

 

 

 

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Personally I have believed for some time that in days of perfect weather and a disaster materialises this has to be the main problem, one such instance is from a Lanarkshire liberation in 2009 from Wetherby were 75% of the convoy were lost in a perfect day.

 

PB members have a look at the full topic of Radar affecting pigeons in the BHW and then please post your opinions.

[tyson]

Hi gareth havent seen this weeks bhw but as you know I have spoken to you about this subject and I still believe that radar especially from airports does affect the pigeons and possibly all the masts for mobile phones just heard that 3G the largest provider for mobile broadband has in the last year doubled the amount of masts in the country so it makes you wonder why we are having all these losses for no apperent reason

[novo10]

gareth the pigeons should have been liberated earlier it was a plane that went over ;)and split the birds ask ur convoyer

[JohnJ]

gareth the pigeons should have been liberated earlier it was a plane that went over ;)and split the birds ask ur convoyer

i think there is somthing in it

[Delboy]

All main airports are scrambling flocks of birds brains with radar signals sent out when the birds get near. This happens frequently in the London area so may contribute to the problems we have flying from the south east corner.

[dal2]

All main airports are scrambling flocks of birds brains with radar signals sent out when the birds get near. This happens frequently in the London area so may contribute to the problems we have flying from the south east corner.

 

Would this also be the black hole in Newcastle area Derek?

[frank-123]

All main airports are scrambling flocks of birds brains with radar signals sent out when the birds get near. This happens frequently in the London area so may contribute to the problems we have flying from the south east corner.

 

would think more the RAF radar than commercial airline's

wonder under freedom of information the RAF would tell us if there was a higher radar signal pumped out in the north east

as we know the north east of england has more than its fair share of RAF bases with a big station at leeming(spelling)

[Delboy]

would think more the RAF radar than commercial airline's

wonder under freedom of information the RAF would tell us if there was a higher radar signal pumped out in the north east

as we know the north east of england has more than its fair share of RAF bases with a big station at leeming(spelling)

 

I agree , RAF but all main airports try and divert flocks of birds from aeroplanes flightpaths.

[tyson]

in that area you have newcastle airport teeside airport r.a.f.boulmer which I beleive interferes with there homing ability what I have noticed if we get east in the wind we dont seem to have the same problem as with west in the wind it tends to push the birds more over into the newcastle area jmo

[Guest IB]

Don't know much about the subject, but wonder if they have super-duper 'scrambling radar' technology, why they use pick & shovel technology like guys flying hawks at airports to keep runways etc clear of birds?

 

Would also like to know how radar affects the birds?

[tyson]

have a look at this site and it will give you an idea of what they are useing to avoid bird strikes www.detect-inc.com

[Guest IB]

have a look at this site and it will give you an idea of what they are useing to avoid bird strikes www.detect-inc.com

 

Thanks. Deterrant still seems to be 'scare' - using a noise we and the birds can hear - rather than Radar which we can't?

 

http://www.detect-inc.com/LRADB.html

[tyson]

if you read more into all the different technology you will find that they can detect flocks of birds 8 mile from airports they are olso using bird strike deterants at wind farms to stop birds striking the blades and damageing them

[robbiedoo.]

Would this also be the black hole in Newcastle area Derek?

there must be something in the air in this area our fed (north of scotland) has had dodgy racing and returns from this area for years no matter where we go whether it be consett,ridsale,hexham its so unpreditical and as a rule our worst area to race from

[cemetary]

there must be something in the air in this area our fed (north of scotland) has had dodgy racing and returns from this area for years no matter where we go whether it be consett,ridsale,hexham its so unpreditical and as a rule our worst area to race from

 

 

The Fife Fed had the same, they didnt have any good racing from there race points either, so there is something oot there this year, as it has been the worst of all the years racing the guys have experienced.

[tyson]

the north east is like the bermuda triangle of britain jmo

[frank-123]

the north east is like the bermuda triangle of britain jmo

 

could this be the problem?

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafboulmer/

 

 

asacs information

http://www.armedforc...ings/l0016.html

 

 

feedom of information request

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/FOIContact/HowToMakeAnOfficialRequestForInformation.htm

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

could this be the problem?

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafboulmer/

 

 

asacs information

http://www.armedforc...ings/l0016.html

 

 

feedom of information request

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/FOIContact/HowToMakeAnOfficialRequestForInformation.htm

A lot of good information from those links Frank, a link also below to the flying times which i was surprised to see as i thought this was suppose to be top secret.

 

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafboulmer/flyinginfo/

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Thanks. Deterrant still seems to be 'scare' - using a noise we and the birds can hear - rather than Radar which we can't?

 

http://www.detect-inc.com/LRADB.html

 

This is a little different from the article by Wim Peters regarding radar, but anyhow with these Bio-acoustic sytems in place at airports in makes you wonder about 2000-7000 doos getting liberated and possibly turned by these acoustic busters

 

 

One of the most effective methods is the use of bio-acoustic systems which broadcast recorded bird distress calls. 'Birds react to signals from other birds that indicate danger, distress or death,' explains Tom Diamond, group commercial manager of UK-based Scarecrow Bio-Acoustic Systems. 'Distress calls are only ever emitted by birds when they are being attacked by a predator. Broadcasting distress calls extracts an inherent physical response. These are most efficient if the distress call is appropriate to the bird species. Operators therefore need a good working knowledge of ornithology to identity what type of birds they are dealing with.'

 

Above taken from http://www.airport-suppliers.com/supplier/Scarecrow_BioAcoustic_Systems_Ltd/press_release/Airport_Bird_Dispersal_Systems/

 

We need not guess as to which distress call they send out to turn away pigeons from heading over an airport

[Guest IB]

This is a little different from the article by Wim Peters regarding radar, but anyhow with these Bio-acoustic sytems in place at airports in makes you wonder about 2000-7000 doos getting liberated and possibly turned by these acoustic busters

 

 

One of the most effective methods is the use of bio-acoustic systems which broadcast recorded bird distress calls. 'Birds react to signals from other birds that indicate danger, distress or death,' explains Tom Diamond, group commercial manager of UK-based Scarecrow Bio-Acoustic Systems. 'Distress calls are only ever emitted by birds when they are being attacked by a predator. Broadcasting distress calls extracts an inherent physical response. These are most efficient if the distress call is appropriate to the bird species. Operators therefore need a good working knowledge of ornithology to identity what type of birds they are dealing with.'

 

Above taken from http://www.airport-suppliers.com/supplier/Scarecrow_BioAcoustic_Systems_Ltd/press_release/Airport_Bird_Dispersal_Systems/

 

We need not guess as to which distress call they send out to turn away pigeons from heading over an airport

 

I am at a disadvantage in that I didn't get my BHW this week, so haven't read the Article.

 

I know that Airports are very concerned about Racing Pigeons crossing runways and increasing risk of birdstrike, and the Confederation of Long Distance Homing Unions had a meeting with them on that earlier this year. For a Racing Pigeon to down a passenger plane would be disastrous for those on board, and for pigeon racing.

 

I suspect these bio-accoustic systems would already be in use in farming throughout the UK, but again I have no definite knowledge that that is the case. I can understand the tie-in with Radar and these systems. Edinburgh Airport has already confirmed to SHU that pigeons show up on Radar, the warning of their approach would be insufficient for human intervention, so detection & automatic deployment of deterrants seems only way to 'scare' birds away.

 

It is also very difficult to pick up any current work on RADAR and PIGEONS on the web, and the different levels of knowledge needed, for example: the range of a pigeon's hearing, to even begin to understand what affect (if any) Radar might have on them. For me it would be an affect on hearing - an unbearable noise that knocks the bird out of the air - but my understanding is its too high frequency - Giga HZ, while the birds and ourselves hear up to Kilo HZ only - so seems improbable.

 

I've also sat at Edinburgh Park railway station watching fanciers liberate birds from Hermiston Gait, well within 8 mile exclusion zone of Edinburgh Airport and I would expect these birds to be within 'influence' of airport Radar. I have not seen any liberation that appeared out of the ordinary, the pigeons seemed to orient well and cleared quickly. So although can't speak for them all, there was no discernable affect on the pigeons.

 

There is one other factor. We can solve only those problems under our Control. Radar installations are way beyond our control and in my opinion, because of that are best discounted, because one thing is for sure. They are not going to switch Radar off so that we can race pigeons.