SNFC/UNC

[rembrant2coo]

.

 

Frank you are right about the west in the wind as i cannot remember any SNFC winning pigeon in the west with a west wind, when looking back the records of the SNFC over the last 25 years you have had 3 or 4 great fanciers win the National into west and these have been vel's of 1900 and above and 600 vel's and below.

 

A great performance which should always be remembered is that of Stuart Mullens pigeon when it won the SNRPC into the west of the country this can only be described as being a miracle that flew well through the hours of darkness to reach it's destination and become a champion.

 

Cheers

Gareth

 

 

 

Hi Gareth read wth interest your post  ,do you not mean vel of 900 and above ,i can,t see

any vel over the 1900 mark, a wee slip with the finger there ,but i agree with you there is not many ,,ones  that come up are , from 1975  j poole newmains vel 985,1980 m white paisley

vel 1092 ,1986 e callaghan fauldhouse vel 1237 these pigeons timed from rennes

 

from nantes 1987 j cosgrove l/gow vel  1129 ,1998  j mcghie son vel 800 ,

 

sartilly  1  there was a good pigeon in to stewarton in ayrshire who was 2nd open in 1992

 

 

there has in the past been some excellent performances put up by west sect fanciers

in the last decades,what a list there is of great fanciers and performances by you guys through their, including yourselves of course i can,t highlight them all , but you know

them ??//all                   getting back to the east  v west  more prevailing west winds i,m afraid

and you sometimes you  can,t help where you decide to set up camp.

[Novice]

.

 

 

Hi Gareth read wth interest your post  ,do you not mean vel of 900 and above ,i can,t see

any vel over the 1900 mark, a wee slip with the finger there ,but i agree with you there is not many ,,ones  that come up are , from 1975  j poole newmains vel 985,1980 m white paisley

vel 1092 ,1986 e callaghan fauldhouse vel 1237 these pigeons timed from rennes

 

from nantes 1987 j cosgrove l/gow vel  1129 ,1998  j mcghie son vel 800 ,

 

sartilly  1  there was a good pigeon in to stewarton in ayrshire who was 2nd open in 1992

 

 

there has in the past been some excellent performances put up by west sect fanciers

in the last decades,what a list there is of great fanciers and performances by you guys through their, including yourselves of course i can,t highlight them all , but you know

them ??//all                   getting back to the east  v west  more prevailing west winds i,m afraid

and you sometimes you  can,t help where you decide to set up camp.

 

Harry----I have never been one for statistics but I think the pigeon in Stewarton belonged to Stuart Divvet. It was second open to Joe Murphy into a westerly wind.  

John Barr was also second open to Eddie Newcombe I am not sure of the wind direction.

 

The performance of Stuart Mullin's pigeon was world class.

 

In the extreme west where I live fanciers appreciate the difficulty of the task and rather than rise to the challenge they concentrate on club and federation racing. Some have even gone North Road weakening an already weak Federation.

While that mentality prevails we are unlikely to improve our National status and the credibility of our pigeons.

[Guest IB]

Stuart Mullen's bird was the best performance in Scotland this year.

 

All the more when you consider that it was in a west wind, and to the west coast on the Clyde.

 

On the opinion that the Leicester YBs were treading water to the Fife Coast: if you look at Leicester, a south or sw wind puts the birds over the north sea between Scarborough & Whitley Bay. It is said the wind is always stronger over sea than land, so those coming west into Central and West Central Scotland had that to fight too; a few years back had a yearling from Leicester end up on an oil rig in the Norwegian Sector of North sea in similar wind conditions.

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

.

 

 

Hi Gareth read wth interest your post  ,do you not mean vel of 900 and above ,i can,t see

any vel over the 1900 mark, a wee slip with the finger there ,but i agree with you there is not many ,,ones  that come up are , from 1975  j poole newmains vel 985,1980 m white paisley

vel 1092 ,1986 e callaghan fauldhouse vel 1237 these pigeons timed from rennes

 

from nantes 1987 j cosgrove l/gow vel  1129 ,1998  j mcghie son vel 800 ,

 

sartilly  1  there was a good pigeon in to stewarton in ayrshire who was 2nd open in 1992

 

 

there has in the past been some excellent performances put up by west sect fanciers

in the last decades,what a list there is of great fanciers and performances by you guys through their, including yourselves of course i can,t highlight them all , but you know

them ??//all                   getting back to the east  v west  more prevailing west winds i,m afraid

and you sometimes you  can,t help where you decide to set up camp.

 

Harry 2 others i was thinking about was:-

 

G Macaloney & Son 1st open in 1987 vel 693 from Sartilly

G Harris of dunipace 1st open in 1997 vel 2095 from Frome

 

Maybe the tide is set to change for the boys in the west.

 

 

[Delboy]

 

Harry----I have never been one for statistics but I think the pigeon in Stewarton belonged to Stuart Divvet. It was second open to Joe Murphy into a westerly wind.  

John Barr was also second open to Eddie Newcombe I am not sure of the wind direction.

 

The performance of Stuart Mullin's pigeon was world class.

 

In the extreme west where I live fanciers appreciate the difficulty of the task and rather than rise to the challenge they concentrate on club and federation racing. Some have even gone North Road weakening an already weak Federation.

While that mentality prevails we are unlikely to improve our National status and the credibility of our pigeons.

 

 

Your wrong m8, the wind was  north when Divett was 2nd Open. I know because I was 7th Open and the race is still vivid in my mind..The rest of your post I totally agree with

 

[jimmy white]

i think there were times when usher vaux were sponsoring nat, races we went with the u,n,c, one race  in particuar springs to mind was the 1965 snfc nantes race , where belgin bros of bo,ness won the snfc,,with" high noon" we had an international result [i still have] printed in the rp. where i was on the international result , but not on the national result [being to late to join "and being skint" the snfc ;D] but do remember a very big liberation

[rembrant2coo]

 

 

 

 

Harry 2 others i was thinking about was:-

 

G Macaloney & Son 1st open in 1987 vel 693 from Sartilly

G Harris of dunipace 1st open in 1997 vel 2095 from Frome

 

Maybe the tide is set to change for the boys in the west.

 

 

 

 

Well its fair to say you give it a good try , and it aint easy or easier to fly anywhere to lofts

at 500-600-700miles it doe,snt matter where you live, on reading the clip for convoying with others ,the W.D.A. as ken said would give the the convoy at least a slight help being with an org that was racing in from the coast a bit but these birds like them all, will have there own line of flight  and at the distance as you said some have to make it on there own for a long time , the weather now does,nt help , along with the hazards of the B.O.P.

I  find there is not many now, of gold awards given out either , but these are exceptional birds and really well earned awards  , in closing i hope you and your family are happily settled in larkhall all the best    harry cheers

[rembrant2coo]

fogot to mention mac,s pigeon , and george his was fro frome though

    

 

Well its fair to say you give it a good try , and it aint easy or easier to fly anywhere to lofts

at 500-600-700miles it doe,snt matter where you live, on reading the clip for convoying with others ,the W.D.A. as ken said would give the the convoy at least a slight help being with an org that was racing in from the coast a bit but these birds like them all, will have there own line of flight  and at the distance as you said some have to make it on there own for a long time , the weather now does,nt help , along with the hazards of the B.O.P.

I  find there is not many now, of gold awards given out either , but these are exceptional birds and really well earned awards  , in closing i hope you and your family are happily settled in larkhall all the best    harry cheers

 

[rembrant2coo]

its easier to race up the east coast because the wind is normally in a westerly direction a tired bird having flown over 500 miles to get to kelso

has a final leg straight into the wind

as for national winners tell me how many have won in the west side of scotland when the wind has been a west wind (gareth will know)

 

 

bart why do you think your birds go up to kelso and then fork left to come to you don,t you think they would come up with the solway birds , idon,t understand that theory at all

 

[Novice]

 

 

Your wrong m8, the wind was  north when Divett was 2nd Open. I know because I was 7th Open and the race is still vivid in my mind..The rest of your post I totally agree with

 

I stand corrected. I only remember it was a super performance. The pigeon was a Blue cock of Stoddart breeding. I know it was still alive this year in the loft of a fancier in Dalry.

I believe the Mc Aloney pigeon---called Janefield Andy was also a Stoddart. I believe bred by Andy Durning.

 

Bobby Kennedy won Rennes in a strong South Easterly wind.

 

 

[rembrant2coo]

 

I stand corrected. I only remember it was a super performance. The pigeon was a Blue cock of Stoddart breeding. I know it was still alive this year in the loft of a fancier in Dalry.

I believe the Mc Aloney pigeon---called Janefield Andy was also a Stoddart. I believe bred by Andy Durning.

 

Bobby Kennedy won Rennes in a strong South Easterly wind.

 

 

all good performances robert , is there still a lot of that breeding around yet STODDART

were going back now who has them

[midnight_son]

I  find there is not many now, of gold awards given out either , but these are exceptional birds and really well earned awards

 

I think the lack of Gold Awards given out now is largely a result of the loss of the Sartilly 1 national which was a very well supported and successful race throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s. That was a race which gave a great balance to the channel season and allowed natural birds an opportunity to fly two channel races in a season and I think it was a backward step to remove it from the program. It disappeared from the program in 1996 or 97 and made a brief comeback when the members voted for it in 2004 (I think) and we had a good race again. The race was flown 2 weeks before the Gold Cup, leaving a perfect 5 week break to the last Sartilly/Falaise so even the birds who are suited by sitting on babies or chipping eggs have a chance to get sat down again in their ideal nest condition. Not only has the demise of that race lessened the likelihood of winning a gold award it has also impacted on the Dewar Trophy with fewer and fewer pigeons contesting 2 x channel races in a single season.

 

For anyone who doubts the value of the race consider the following SNFC legends who made their name via the old Sartilly 1 route:-

 

Fortune Lady (Mr & Mrs Smith, Elphinstone) - there is no chance Fortune Lady would have attained 10 SNFC channel diplomas and a double gold award were it not for Sartilly 1 during her career.

 

Lothian Lass (John Ellis, Elphinstone) - 7 times a channel winner with the SNFC and of course a Gold Award winner. A hen flown natural who needed that gap between races to sort her nest condition, there would be no Lothian Lass in the era since Sartilly 1 was stopped.

 

Auld Reekie (W.Kinnear & son) - Best known for winning the Gold Cup and then being 2nd open Falaise the following season. However, it is often forgotten that en route to winning the gold cup he was, I believe, 11th open Falaise 1 a fortnight beforehand - possibly that race put him spot on for the gold cup.

 

I'm sure there are many others that you can all quote but those 3 sprung to my mind and these are the kind of pigeons and performances that inspire people to really try the distance racing and I think a  framework of races should be there to allow them to fulfill their potential.

 

To bring it back to this thread, I think under the current financial climate it is going to be essential to seek joint convoy opportunities if we want to support a proper long distance program rather than just 3 stand alone races with only a handful of pigeons going to more than 1 channel race. I agree with some of the previous posters that English groups flying a similar route to the current program is the best option.

 

[frank-123]

bart why do you think your birds go up to kelso and then fork left to come to you don,t you think they would come up with the solway birds , idon,t understand that theory at all

 

hi mate

i reckon our birds would stay more easterly as that's the route we unfortunately have to race our birds due to the hawk problems

i reckon the solway birds would come up that route as well then break at berwick/ scottish borders maybe the guys in the solway could answer

what direction do your birds come from the national

east or straight south?

 

[Chris Little]

Bart , I reckon our birds come up the east then attempt to cut across once they get over the border. This is blatantly obvious when birds in the Eyemouth area are timed in before ours on occasions.

 

The First Sartilly race is sorely missed and I remember the attempt to revive it when we had 2 Falaise races in 2004, the first one was a perfect cobweb blower for the other races......

 

[rembrant2coo]

 

hi mate

i reckon our birds would stay more easterly as that's the route we unfortunately have to race our birds due to the hawk problems

i reckon the solway birds would come up that route as well then break at berwick/ scottish borders maybe the guys in the solway could answer

what direction do your birds come from the national

east or straight south?

 

 

if they were to come from the east i would be well beat as i would think my bird would be with another who was going further north , and the south would be my option which has proven to be right as my birds which have won for me have come from the south or

a landmark which was given to me by dennis dall whose loft was on the same site ,

for a wee while now the last 3years maybe they have been coming from the west ,as did champion kingdom boy on 2 occasions to jim benvie who is in the gardens with me

i still don,t get the idea that the solway birds come up the east , in 500 mile races i would hope they would break at the bottom of the pennines and take there own route home

as they are used to that terrain and that route sorry to disagree with you bart  , you can stay through here you have relations don,t you here in THE KINGDOM right on line for

st andrews and the golf as well , e.t.s. can be used when your playing golf

[frank-123]

edinburgh my relations stay but my father was wise and got oot ;D

 

i will repeat myself it is not easy to race into scotland with the nationals but everybody agrees its easier to race to the east than west

i have no desire to move to the east coast

but i still reckon in the interest's of fairness the nfc or north west(cumbria) boys would make it more of a level playing field for the whole of scotland

 

it is still a good idea to have joint convoying the snrpc done it this year with the nfc  so why not with the snfc/snrpc and the nfc

both the empties could still race in there own organizations

 

but what do i know i have never timed from any national

[rembrant2coo]

edinburgh my relations stay but my father was wise and got oot ;D

 

i will repeat myself it is not easy to race into scotland with the nationals but everybody agrees its easier to race to the east than west

i have no desire to move to the east coast

but i still reckon in the interest's of fairness the nfc or north west(cumbria) boys would make it more of a level playing field for the whole of scotland

 

it is still a good idea to have joint convoying the snrpc done it this year with the nfc  so why not with the snfc/snrpc and the nfc

both the empties could still race in there own organizations

 

but what do i know i have never timed from any national

 

 

 

you may as well take your avatar down bart , cause i can,t see that ever happening ,and we are now offtopic so we will be getting deleted shortly ,well i will for certain

[frank-123]

i am still on topic

i would just like to thank all the people who sent private message's who like me would love to see politicians on both sides booted right out the door so we can have one national again because we are fed up with narrowed minded individuals that think they run the doo game in scotland

 

so my aviator will stay just so i can make my point

 

 

anybody else want to comment on the blue tooner post of the unc/snfc joint convoying and hopefully the snrpc as well

[rembrant2coo]

 

i am still on topic

i would just like to thank all the people who sent private message's who like me would love to see politicians on both sides booted right out the door so we can have one national again because we are fed up with narrowed minded individuals that think they run the doo game in scotland

 

so my aviator will stay just so i can make my point

 

 

anybody else want to comment on the blue tooner post of the unc/snfc joint convoying and hopefully the snrpc as well

 

 

i,m certainly no politician i like you would like all people to enjoy ones pigeons

and hopefully see eye to eye on pigeons , and nothing else,, as for the rest  i,ve rested my case a long time ago

[Guest]

As a member of the UNC, i have found this thread very interesting. Have any of you actually spoke to the UNC about this? The UNC transporting Scottish birds has been done in the past, certainly upto at least 2003 as there were Scottish birds at our Young Bird National, (released after the main lib I beleive!!) The transportation of you guys would certainly make our costs cheaper, or at least it should do!

 

Good luck in your efforts lads, it may help in getting a few strays returned north to you aswell!!

 

PS: I'll move it to be put on our AGM for you if we can have our Wembley goalposts back!   ;D ;D

 

All the best!

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

As a member of the UNC, i have found this thread very interesting. Have any of you actually spoke to the UNC about this? The UNC transporting Scottish birds has been done in the past, certainly upto at least 2003 as there were Scottish birds at our Young Bird National, (released after the main lib I beleive!!) The transportation of you guys would certainly make our costs cheaper, or at least it should do!

 

Good luck in your efforts lads, it may help in getting a few strays returned north to you aswell!!

 

PS: I'll move it to be put on our AGM for you if we can have our Wembley goalposts back!

 

;D ;D

 

All the best!

 

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Never as we won them fair and square. ;D ;D

 

 

[naedoos]

 

 

PS: I'll move it to be put on our AGM for you if we can have our Wembley goalposts back!   ;D ;D

 

All the best!

 

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Nae Danger  

 

 

[Novice]

 

all good performances robert , is there still a lot of that breeding around yet STODDART

were going back now who has them

 

Harry----as far as I am aware (and I spoke to the guy about 2 months ago) Charlie Mc Kerrow still has some of the family. I believe his birds originated from Jim Paterson who was our Federation Secretary and SHU President some years ago. JP was also some pigeon fancier. This was the same origin of Stuart Divit's bird.

No doubt we will have lost some of the young whippersnappers with this information.

 

 

[sj irving jnr]

yes bart,i cant see why the snfc,snrpc,cumbria combine couldent all go together  because one day it must happen the way pigeon racing is going and the way the numbers are going down,its going to be a transit van we need to take the birds across the channel.it would be great if we could get them all round the table to sort somthing out.

     and also this year the snrpc went with the nfc,i hope one day the snfc will do the same.

[rednyellow]

i am still on topic

i would just like to thank all the people who sent private message's who like me would love to see politicians on both sides booted right out the door so we can have one national again because we are fed up with narrowed minded individuals that think they run the doo game in scotland

 

so my aviator will stay just so i can make my point

 

 

anybody else want to comment on the blue tooner post of the unc/snfc joint convoying and hopefully the snrpc as well

 

bart had put up a similar thread about a month ago about joint convoying scottish national birds,and although on the hole it was recieved well i felt the scottish national fanciers will not get together with this one due to a few dinosaurs still living in the past, time now i think to move forward. ;) :)ps lanarkshire going with the national is a big step forward for us guys in the west!!!!!