Massive outbreak of YB Sickness on the continent

[me]

 

i get you ... the white man.(am i allowed to say that.)

 

Thats about the size of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Guest youngzimmy]

ME I  THINK YOU ARE TALKING CRAP TO MANY ANTIBIOTICS RESULT WEAKENING OF THE NATURAL IMUNITY SYSTEM THUS THE BIRDS ARE WIDE OPEN TO ALL THE DISEASES THAT ARE GOIN AS I SAID BEFORE NOT EXACTLY ROCKET SCIENCE

[jimmy white]

 

 

Eh YBS is a virus so the short answer is no.

 

what causes a virus??

[pigeonboyuk]

 

what causes a virus??

there is no known 'cause' to a virus, as far as science knows virus's have been around since the beginning of time.  here is a very good explantion on where they are likely to have come evolved and what the likely causes are...  

 

Viruses are found wherever there is life and have probably existed since living cells first evolved. The origin of viruses is unclear because they do not form fossils, so molecular techniques have been the most useful means of hypothesising how they arose. However, these techniques rely on the availability of ancient viral DNA or RNA but most of the viruses that have been preserved and stored in laboratories are less than 90 years old.   Molecular methods have only been successful in tracing the ancestry of viruses that evolved in the 20th century.

 

There are three main theories of the origins of viruses:

 

Regressive theory: Viruses may have once been small cells that parasitised larger cells. Over time, genes not required by their parasitism were lost. The bacteria rickettsia and chlamydia are living cells that, like viruses, can reproduce only inside host cells. They lend credence to this theory, as their dependence on parasitism is likely to have caused the loss of genes that enabled them to survive outside a cell.

 

Cellular origin theory: Some viruses may have evolved from bits of DNA or RNA that "escaped" from the genes of a larger organism. The escaped DNA could have come from plasmids—pieces of DNA that can move between cells—while others may have evolved from bacteria.

 

Coevolution theory: Viruses may have evolved from complex molecules of protein and DNA at the same time as cells first appeared on earth and would have been dependent on cellular life for many millions of years.

 

there you go jimmy, now you know the probable answer you can start working on ho to beat it     

 

 

[Merlin]

 

 

Again I ask fanciers do they not think its even slightly uncanny that its within approx the last 30/40 years especially,these new sickness began to infect our birds,which is about the time our continental cousins were established with their anti biotics syndrome,a custom a lot of fanciers followed suit with on this side,still do,while the pigeons have been combating these bad bacterias,for countless years,successfully I might add through with what NATURE designed for it,so MAN introduced his chemicals formed in a lab,which does give a boostin the "short term"in the measure of time,but two words spring to mind,bad bacteria,and mutation,do we discover and use this super cocktail of chemicals,that defeats all mutations of bad bacteria,change Nature,don't think so,the very fact that its capable of mutation,says this,so better get in tune with Nature and whats Natural,rather than try to best it,we are creating our problems,surely common sense and hindsight tells us this.

[pigeonboyuk]

it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference whether the pigeon was treated with anti-biotics or the natural way, virii have a nasty habit of mutating regardless, its called evolution.  people who come out with the crap that it has to be antibiotics to blame havent got a clue.  aids came along without there being any reason or explanation or treatment for that matter, its no different for YBS, it was NOT the result of overuse of antibiotics that caused it.    to make it simpler for you to understand so you can stop blaming meds look at it this way.   a virus needs a host cell to even work, it cant work without one simple as and as YBS came BEFORE the antibiotic it rules out the antibiotic as the cause.  

 

for thousands of years (as long as we've had pigeons) the bacteria was probably around but did not find, or perhaps even need to find the right host to make it work.  then as we developed the pigeon into a far more competitive racer and its bloodlines became more and more strained through breeding and the like the more susceptable the bird was going to be for that rogue cell to find a host and attack.  it needed a host and thats where stress comes in.  as the result of greater demands put on the birds to train harder, breed better and race better the more stress that goes with these demands, birds are no different than any other species that has stress put on it.

 

when stress occurs it results in the body and the brain releasing certain chemicals (endorphines) to deal with the stress, adrenaline being a major chemical released as a direct result of stress.   we know that stress is the trigger factor of YBS so the theory i have that it is a chemical within the body produced as a direct result of stress that was perfect for the virus to use as a host to invade the body.   the experienced fancier with a happy loft will tell you that the less stressed their birds are the less YBs occurences they have, its a simple math.  stress = the production of a suitable host cell for the virus to use to become effective.  stress is the common denominator in YBS and the increased pressure put on birds as the more competative the sport becomes the more stress put on the birds.  nothing at all to do with antibiotics, they are just something that temporarily gets in the way of the virus which then mutates to get around that hurdle.  

 

you can be in tune with nature as much as you like but if your birds are still stressed then they are still going to produce the correct host cell that triggers YBS simple as that.   probably the best theory ever to come out on what causes YBS and how to prevent it, and you read it here on PB first.   8)    

[Guest IB]

Wrote a paper published in BHW end of 2004 about stress, and it being the one thing guaranteed to 'undermine' the immune system, lowering our ability to combat even simplest of illnesses.

 

But viral infection does not mean end of civilisation as we know it, for us or our birds. What has happened though is that the evolution of the AIDS virus is possibly the worst type of infection, one that specifically targets the immune system in humans, and circovirus is its equivalent in the pigeon. Without a fully-functioning immune system, we and the birds would be open to infection by even the most harmless of stuff, and as the previous posts infer, we are surrounded by both bacteria and virus. But get it into perspective - we carry countless billions of bacteria in and about our own person - fact - and we cannot exist without them.

 

As something like circovirus evolves to conquer new hosts, so does the host, it evolves new defences. In humans at least, we know that people have been infected by AIDS and subsequently become immune to it; a club mate of mine had pigeon fanciers' lung, the condition damaged his lungs, but he is now one of the few people who have now become immune to it. And not all fanciers get hit by YBS, that suggests to me that some birds are immune to the virus. No virus, then no destruction of YB's immune system, which starts all the bother.

 

[pigeonboyuk]

No virus, then no destruction of YB's immune system, which starts all the bother.

i get where your coming from but the theory on no virus not necessarily true, you can (and most do) still carry the virus but safely, providing you don't give that virus the chance to obtain a host which is what it needs to become effective.   by minimizing the stress factors in the birds it means that the reduction of suitable hosts are also minimized.  this would be called a 'false positve' in a blood test because if you tested for the virus itself it would probably be present but in a dormant state.  does that make sense?

 

the people who recovered from hiv (no-one has ever recovered from full blown aids) was down to the bodies ability to adapt to the virus creating an immunity, the body does this by somehow recognising what host the hiv virus used to start its attack and worked out how to stop producing that host.  simple really.   one day science will figure out what the small amount of humans and birds have in detecting that particular host and we'll conquer it, sadly even then another virus will be lurking waiting for a chance, its the nature of the beast, or the beast in nature.    

 

 

[Guest shadow]

why is this page stretched get fed up of scrolling backwards and forwards

[Roland]

THE TOPIC IS Massive outbreak of YB Sickness on the continent WHY ARE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT LIME  AND CREOSOTE DO YOU GET THE FEELING YOUS YINS ARE A MILE OR TWO OFF THE TOPIC

 

Because PREVENTION is far far better than cure.

Lime can get into the eyes of course if leaft to blow about. I scrape mine into the wood, or dabb on with a damp rag.

Kneew a farmer that cleansed his loft big time every two seasons after race season. Took the birds out for a month. Was in dep litter. Spaded it out, scraped clean etc. then poured on the cresote. When dried, a week later birds were rehoused. Never had any ailments.

[Guest IB]

i get where your coming from but the theory on no virus not necessarily true, you can (and most do) still carry the virus but safely, providing you don't give that virus the chance to obtain a host which is what it needs to become effective.   by minimizing the stress factors in the birds it means that the reduction of suitable hosts are also minimized.  this would be called a 'false positve' in a blood test because if you tested for the virus itself it would probably be present but in a dormant state.  does that make sense?

 

the people who recovered from hiv (no-one has ever recovered from full blown aids) was down to the bodies ability to adapt to the virus creating an immunity, the body does this by somehow recognising what host the hiv virus used to start its attack and worked out how to stop producing that host.  simple really.   one day science will figure out what the small amount of humans and birds have in detecting that particular host and we'll conquer it, sadly even then another virus will be lurking waiting for a chance, its the nature of the beast, or the beast in nature.    

 

 

You raise interesting points.

 

I agree with what you say about HIV AIDS. I think I've maybe confused issues as I know some HIV+ will and others will not develop into full-blown AIDS. The instance I was thinking about was a programme on AIDS where a group of prostitutes were infected by HIV but tests confirmed they had all become immune to AIDS, and they did not pass on the virus to their multiple partners? It was hoped their serum could help develop a vaccine?

 

I agree that to be infectious, the virus is required to invade a cell, any cell. And it does so by 'trickery' and to steal the cell's DNA which it needs to replicate itself. That is why there are so many different viral strains, it cannot reproduce by itself, it needs other cells, and therefore its 'children' are imperfect copies of itself. As are their 'children'.

 

After I last posted, I thought of two more issues of viral attack. I had measles as a youngster. Thought that made me immune to re-infection, till a workmate contracted Shingles, the adult version. Seems the measles virus goes dormant, and its hiding place is the spinal chord, and can 'flare up' in adulthood as Shingles, inflammation of the nerve endings. Pretty sore.

 

I connect that with the paper published in BHW a few years ago, by Swedish-sounding name Nils, or Larrsen? who discovered circovirus 'particles' in various organs of a previously infected youngster, and his theory was that they 'probably' reconstitute to infect a later generation of youngsters. Those Virus particles are probably DNA particles, cos its just a package of DNA and some bits and pieces to help it invade cells. If that is true, 'airborne' infection is proved (yet again) to be a load of tosh, and the virus is passed directly from the hen into the egg, infecting the developing youngster.

 

I had a series of emails years ago with Gordon Chalmers on when the youngster gets infected by circovirus. He didn't know. Given that its the Bursa that is infected, and this organ 'disappears' when the youngster reaches sexual  maturity,  it must be pretty early on.  And if its in the egg, then vaccinating for PMV at 3 weeks old maybe won't help, because the damage is already done.

 

 

 

[Roland]

  pigeonboyuk wrote, Quote '....get where your coming from but the theory on no virus not necessarily true, you can (and most do) still carry the virus but safely, providing you don't give that virus the chance to obtain a host which is what it needs to become effective.   by minimizing the stress factors in the birds it means that the reduction of suitable hosts are also minimized.  this would be called a 'false positve' in a blood test because if you tested for the virus itself it would probably be present but in a dormant state.  does that make sense?

Agree to some extent. Hence provention is better than cure.

Now like he said in a earlier post, 'We have been mucking them about ... etc. for our own wants and desires.

 

One of my strong beliefs is too much inbreeding - especially via those that haven't the foggiest why and how to do it properly. LIKE they say it is the OUTCROSS that is all important. We know that close relationship regards births have catoscropic consequence. Been proved  time after time, indeed in Royalty, etc. from before Roman times... even laws making it unlawful for these very reasons. Yet many do regardless. That's just one thing I believe that has caused dire consequences

[Guest IB]

My last post mentioned measles and shingles. Wrong disease, should have been chickenpox and shingles. Had mumps, measles & chickenpox as a child. Got them muxed-ip, sorry for any confusion.

[alec]

ybs :some men up here in scotland use garden lime in the drinker to prevent it

[mark]

not bothered by it, beleive there are underlying problems if you get it!

 

lets see if you feel like that if your ybs get ill.

[pigeonboyuk]

  We know that close relationship regards births have catoscropic consequence. Been proved  time after time, indeed in Royalty, etc. from before Roman times... even laws making it unlawful for these very reasons. Yet many do regardless. That's just one thing I believe that has caused dire consequences

absolutely right roland, the more you inbreed the weaker the genepool of that breed becomes. virus's are also definately passed down through the egg as i said in one of my earlier posts.  nervous conditions such as predisposition to stress is also hereditary and can be passed on just as easily as the colour of a bird can be. its not easy to discuss topics like this without coming across as a know it all, thats the last thing i want thats for certain but it does make for a refreshing debate.  

[Guest Paulo]

  pigeonboyuk wrote, Quote '....get where your coming from but the theory on no virus not necessarily true, you can (and most do) still carry the virus but safely, providing you don't give that virus the chance to obtain a host which is what it needs to become effective.   by minimizing the stress factors in the birds it means that the reduction of suitable hosts are also minimized.  this would be called a 'false positve' in a blood test because if you tested for the virus itself it would probably be present but in a dormant state.  does that make sense?

Agree to some extent. Hence provention is better than cure.

Now like he said in a earlier post, 'We have been mucking them about ... etc. for our own wants and desires.

 

One of my strong beliefs is too much inbreeding - especially via those that haven't the foggiest why and how to do it properly. LIKE they say it is the OUTCROSS that is all important. We know that close relationship regards births have catoscropic consequence. Been proved  time after time, indeed in Royalty, etc. from before Roman times... even laws making it unlawful for these very reasons. Yet many do regardless. That's just one thing I believe that has caused dire consequences

 

Inbreedings done me no harm I only have 8 fingers and 30 toes ha ha. Cue duelling banjos from deliverence

 

 

[Roland]

Paulo I need there was something amiss when you kept forgetting to send me some Cheques lol.

[Guest youngzimmy]

AND AS FAR AS AIDS GOES IF CERTAIN PEPLE GO AROUND HAVING SEX WITH MONKEYS WHAT HAPPENS WALA  AIDS SO THERE YOU ARE

[pigeonboyuk]

 

Inbreedings done me no harm I only have 8 fingers and 30 toes ha ha. Cue duelling banjos from deliverence

 

lmao;

[Guest youngzimmy]

next question is if that was the case with aids where did youngbird sickness come from

[Guest IB]

AND AS FAR AS AIDS GOES IF CERTAIN PEPLE GO AROUND HAVING SEX WITH MONKEYS WHAT HAPPENS WALA  AIDS SO THERE YOU ARE

 

Don't think you actually need to have sex with them. Thinking is that this was as you say a 'monkey' virus that monkeys were immune to, but was devastating to humans. It's when we started cutting down whole forests and invaded territory we'd never been in before (and didn't need) that we met this virus - and it loved us. Nature biting back, as it were.

[pigeonboyuk]

next question is if that was the case with aids where did youngbird sickness come from

i already mentioned it, YB sickness has probably always been there in the birds makeup but never had a host to make it active.

 

 

[pigeonboyuk]

 

Don't think you actually need to have sex with them. Thinking is that this was as you say a 'monkey' virus that monkeys were immune to, but was devastating to humans. It's when we started cutting down whole forests and invaded territory we'd never been in before (and didn't need) that we met this virus - and it loved us. Nature biting back, as it were.

that's a load of tosh youngzimmy, it was nothing to do with bonking monkeys, old wives tail, the evidence points to the monkey being 98% plus the same as man, having the same virus in them and then being subjected to the same precurser at the same time as each other.  

 

 

[Guest Paulo]

I wish I hadn't interfered with them monkeys