I know that, but my birds have a plastic on one leg just a stander plane one and on the other the name and address ring, they wouldn't both just shatter would they? thanks, he's settling back to the loft now, and im sure he'll be fine soon enough, and then see how he goes Thank you I'll be sure to say if he's there to race or not, Only a few weeks left! Atb Andy Thank you, I thought the same to be honest, I know it happens alot, and i seem to get it happen with jazzy gay pieds Thanks, I have a close eye on him as we speak if one ring was removed i'd say it was doing me a favour, But as both was taken off i can't help but think they was trying to keep the bird. Thanks, Im just going to see how he goes, i might even lose him again the 1st time he's out