Yes you are right, I've always had 30/40 on open loft for over 20yrs. and lost a few every year but this year is completely different, I've had to shut them up, 9 killed in the last few weeks, hen spar., gos and percy, and one stitched with corn spilling from crop, No chance of young birds going out, the mob on open loft are very streetwise so if they can't cope what chance would they have, It's becoming impossible