holmsidelofts

Hope you get them back mac. I would never risk a morning fly until they are exercising well as i work to and as you said i wouldnt want to go to work either. hope you get them all back mate. jas

Well said mate i find it very insulting to, but thats how rolland is im afraid.

Sorry rolland its not to do with ignorance, and im certainly am not a cheat what i am saying is everyone interprets things differently, as you obviously did when you read what i wrote. ets doesnt win you races you have to get the bird to the loft in the first place. I was just as quick clocking with a t3 and a super trap as i am with the ets so all this arguments about being fair to manual clockers is a load of bull. its the bird that wins the race not the clocking system. we can argue about this until we are blue in the face, until the rpra releases pictures this will be talked about for years. to the non ets fanciers who against ets its your choice, you have the same options as the rest of us, move into the 21st century and stop moaning about it.

As i have always said if someone gets stopped for using a trap that he thought was legal i cant see what the rpra could do. they never have once released any pictures of whats legal and whats not, never mentioned any commercial traps to say if they are legal or not. Everyone interprets the written word differently, they wouldnt stand a chance in the court of law if they stripped you of results if they felt your trap didnt conform and felt it did. Until they release pictures they will never put this subject to bed. Jas.

Great story bakes, well done to you and the wife for doing what you are doing, Youngsters need all the help they can get these days to get into the sport and i think what you have done for this young lad is fantastic. well done to you both. Jas.

Zero, never show them before just bowl, Have found this works better as the cocks dont get as wound up as if they were shown the hen. Im assuming you are talking about widowhood and not roundabout. Jas.

Thanks for the info IB hopefully i will have info from chevita tomorrow regarding there live vaccine and i will share that with everyone when i get it. Jas

hopefully that information will come tomorrow, i have asked chevita for there test results and a break down of what protection you get from the vaccine. regarding the protection side of things, a bird that has been vaccinated for salmonella can still catch another strain type, but as they are all related the vaccine will reduce the severity of the disease. If they are not vaccinated we now the outcome most of the time.

Hi mate. Sorry to be blunt but just because he wins races does make him an expert on the subject of salmonella in racing pigeons, Im speaking with the experts at the moment, the people who produce these vaccines, If he such an expert as he makes out its about time he started giving this information he says he had, all we have seen in all his arguments are no modern scientific evidence to back up what hes saying. He says he has spoken to the people but he provides none evidence of this, thats why i take nothing he says seriously and others shouldnt to. All the information i have provide comes from the companies themselves and the many world renowned pigeon vets who speak on the subjects themselves. Until he starts providing relevant information to back up what hes saying i have no time for him.

just another update on the chevita chevivac s vaccine regard its licensed use in the uk. this came direct from chevita themselves: Dear Jason, CHEVIVAC-S is licensed in Germany. It has been imported to the U.K. by veterinary practitioners on the basis of Special Import Certificates granted by the competent U.K. Authorities. Yours faithfully Georg Paulus So that answers that argument regarding the vaccine being sold in the uk. As long as it comes from a vet its fine to use and not illegal in the uk. Jas.

Well done richard, good post. The thing with this is to keep publishing this information to facebook once you get a response. Its easy for the rspb to tell you anything on a one to one email, but when its made public they better make sure that they give the right answers as theres only so much that the public will take of being told the wrong info. Well done mate. Jas.

Also i just emailed the university in holland where this study took place and will update you on the response i get once it comes.

I spoke with chevita who make the live vaccine for salmonella yesterday and this is there response to the link that pigeonscout posted: Dear Mr. Edwards, We thank you for your message and the information on discussions regarding vaccination against salmonellosis in pigeons. Our vaccine CHEVIVAC-S was introduced to the market in 1996. Therefor, it was certainly not considered in the study published in 1991. Yours faithfully Georg Paulus CHEVITA GmbH Export Department So as you can see you cant base that article on what is now available I have done the same with columbovac and will post there response once i get a reply from them.

If you stand by this them name the people you have spoken with and we will pout this to rest once and for all by speaking with them again.

Sorry mate never saw your response before posting ;D, im glad others are starting to see that to. My question is why would some of the best flyers in the world swear by vaccinating against salmonella, but to name a few, geoff kirkland, frank tasker, jos thone. Plus the countless number of experienced pigeon vets. Jas

Dont you think the link is wearing a bit thin now pigeon scout. This has been discussed many times before: heres the transcript to the link: The Veterinary Record, Vol 128, Issue 7, 152-153 Copyright © 1991 by British Veterinary Association Papers & Articles Protective effects of vaccines against experimental salmonellosis in racing pigeons E Uyttebroek, LA Devriese, D Gevaert, R Ducatelle, J Nelis, and F Haesebrouck Department of Avian Pathology, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of Ghent, Belgium. Five inactivated and one attenuated vaccine produced for the prevention of salmonellosis in pigeons were compared in an experimental challenge model. The birds were vaccinated according to the recommendations of the manufacturers and they were infected by gavage with a Salmonella typhimurium (var copenhagen) pigeon strain. The challenged control animals showed severe weight loss, excessive water intake over a prolonged period, and excreted large numbers of salmonellae. None of the vaccines fully protected the pigeons, and only an inactivated oil adjuvant vaccine was able to reduce the severity of the clinical signs significantly. Mortality was low and tended to increase with the severity of the clinical signs. These results do not justify the preventive use of salmonella vaccination in pigeons. Nevertheless, the oil adjuvant vaccine may help in the effective cleaning of lofts after an outbreak of salmonellosis. Its an outdated article published in 1991, a lot changes in 20 years mate. stop posting this information as it misleads others.

Very nice birds mate.

thats not true it doesnt work like that. theres plenty of scientific research to back that up also. what you have to remember there are lots of unlicensed products for sale over here, parastop is one of them.

the pencil pied is a direct son of bert hessions champion toyboy x madonna. We were very lucky to get him, it took a lot of persuading bert to let me have him as not many at that time had left berts loft. At berts final sale in blackpool 2009 brothers the same way bred went for over £1000 each. He handles extremely well. Looking forward to finally racing his children this year. Jas.

Its who you know

Heres some of my direct bert hession van reets Jas

The live vaccine as the word suggests is a live form of vaccine that has been weakened with formaldehyde to a point that its safe to inject into the pigeon, the pigeons immune system will responded to this weakened bacteria by producing antibodies to the bacteria thus giving the bird protection. the dead vaccine again as the name suggests is the bacteria that has been killed, the immune system can sometimes be slow to react to the dead vaccine thats why you have to inject them twice within 4 weeks of the first injection this makes sure that the immune system has adequately responded to the dead bacteria. In the uk the only licensed vaccine is the dead columbovac vaccine, you can get the live vaccine ( i have used the chivita s live vaccine, but that had to come from a vet.). There is lots of controversy over salmonella vaccine as the vaccine targets the strain Salmonella spp. ser. Typhimurium variant Copenhagen this is one of many 100's of strains of salmonella, this type is the one seen in pigeons, that doesnt mean pigeons cant contract one of the other strains of salmonella, so the argument is what good is a vaccine that only protects from one type of salmonella? the answer is this all other strains of salmonella are related to each other, this means if the bird contracts another form of salmonella when they are vaccinated the immune system can cope with tackling it as it already has made similar antibodies to the bacteria in the vaccine thus vastly reducing the impact of catching it. Thats the reason why you should vaccinate. treating with antibiotics like baytril or parastop will only clean out whats in the bird it gives them no protection the next time they come into contact with another infected bird. Jas

Hi adam. If you think you've had it you must treat with antibiotics for 10 days prior to vaccinating as you must get rid of it first before vaccinating. As i have said before i have used both live vaccine and the dead vaccine. this year i used the dead vaccine on the old ones this year and did it twice, the birds havent looked better, there was no issues had a fairly successful hatching rate, really looking forward to racing them. Jas

Simply dont let them come into contact with other birds, but unfortunately in our sport we cant do that, if a bird catches an illness it needs medication you can give all the potions you want but in reality medication will be require if they become ill.

No truth in that mate, bird is just resting.