Roland

Samonella / Phar... etc. THESE DONT show up in dopping for instance, often a secondarily illness when birds are down, and ofen a loft has carriers, and too many fanciers don't even know, let alone realise. I suggest that more lofts look into these illnesses Vic.

So in nature just what is wrong with that? In my loft, and many named lofts it is deemed a good thing! The quicker it spreads, and they all have it - whatever it is - the quicker they become immune to it. Sure some things need a little help due to man's silly interferace, but that is no more than give a innoculation! On a sadder not, some may die... But the rest become better stronger for it, and more importantly so do their off spring. Going bed, be up at 5 in morning, but will look straight off.

One thing for sure, mother Nature proves every single time... some time ole Big head the scientist with spout telephone numbers and scenarios and fool us some times for a little while, but then lol and behold Nuture proves correct. Now just when ever has anyone ever seen pigeons not flock together? clam closer to build their' nest? It is their' nature, and try as one might, as soon as one nest is up, others join, and you know what, there may well be stacks of better - in our eyes - places and ledges etc. Stacks of room! And where do they go... you've got it, as close as possible to another nest and on it goes. IT is their nature, their very essence. Droppings, in a dry enviroment serve as the best nesting material there is. IT hardens and gives warm. Lice when need bes clean feathers and keep them spot on... as most parasites have their role... never see larger fish eating or stopping their cleaners... WE do, and try to copy and make out it's better ... more like someone is making money. In Canada the law say that pigeons must has 1 square foot of air to each bird. Nigh every one say, great so they should have, and that is taken as granted to be ample. Now a loft of 12 ft x 9 foot wide, by 8ft high could hous a lot of pigeon ... 72 would be nothing in reality!

Don't understand the question! Where as in Place, from Enviroment? But certainly hasn't anything to do with overcrowding pigeons. now lets see where did the Bird Flue Virus start ? overcrowded bird market !!!!!!!!! one loft race virus struck ? wonder how many birds per foot was in there

Overcrowding as you state is not overcrowding at all. It's down to bad managerment. As long as they have a perch that allows them to breathe easierly, then it's not overcrowding. How many pigeons could roost in a tree till they became over crowded? Indeed three trees?

What I saying is frankly, if the birds are Loft fit, and had a c2/3/4 chucks and came alright, then quite simplely if they have the ability, and want to home, they will, and be up with leaders. I can't see how any one can presume that fanciers chuck in birds when they are unfit / not fit enough. Many are lost after yonks of training, indeed at the first hurdle.

Yep, when I have time to race the y/b's I will normally chuck them in at 112 - 140 milers, depending whether North or South. I work Week - end nights mostly, so can't get to clubs Friday or Saturday. - I am knocking it all on the head hopefully, but having said that I am working this week - end. When I have done as such with the y/b's they come real well.

Well if you have 2 pigeons in a 45foot long x 26 wide with a 100yards x 1000yards avery and the Birds fly out well regularly does that mean that they can't catch Para etc. !!! :-/ :-/? Of course not, likewise they don't catch Avian... carry it eh! So that's that little one sort lol ;D ;D

Jumping birds: A good few fanciers I know , and three are the best in this area, never went / go above 20 miles. Gary Edmunds, as JAK JAK could verify, was one of the best Fed flyers this fed ever had. Never trained any bird past 20 miles. Hes said, home from 20, then a race, can home from any where. Two top flyers , National winners to boot have their 'Articles' for all to see. Not even traned as y/b's. A couple of training tosses, 150 - 250 miles first race! Another, never trained his y/b's, nor as yearlings, 2 races and topping Pau. Seems to me, it is another wagging the dog by the tail. There is only assumptions, like in answers to Blackswans quieries. Alann, a newly married lad has some youngster bred him. 6 in fact. He didn't have time - couldn't afford to train, so never ever tosseed them any where. Decides to pack up. rather than cull he sent them to Berwick, 239 miles 5 in top ten of the fed (Dropped just the one, and beat some good boys in the Kettering club, days of 40 members nigh. The list is endless, but it smacks again of what WE feel is right, and is often related to human terms.

Not wanting to get involved in the politics at all... But to say that folks lose their birds by jumping them into a race is without any logical foundation.

Any more? ! I have few, so if one thinks about the reality I'd bet you all there are a lot more. May from time to time post them afterthey have been put up in a topic eh. ;D

Spit in it's eye... smokers better still. Or just hold a cold tea bag to it. Then look for where the little draft is near it's rest place / perch and put some gripper fill in it or sommat.

Exactly... it kills bateria like it is supposed to ... and like Bleach NOTHING should raly be mixed with it medicence wise. Leave a lid over but allow air to flow over. aPreferable about an inch all around so no creepy crawlies etc. fall in.

know what you mean lol. hated by some, for the truth hurts. Loved by many who like the truth though... I never get into trouble for fibbing ... get loads though for telling the truth lol ;D ;D

This incident happened recently in North Texas. A woman went boating one Sunday taking with her some cans of coke which she put into the refrigerator of the boat. On Monday she was taken to the hospital and placed in ICU. She died on The autopsy concluded she died of Leptospirosis. This was traced to the can of coke she drank from without using a glass. Tests showed that the can was infected by dried rat urine and hence the disease Leptospirosis. Rat urine contains toxic and deathly substances. It is highly recommended to thoroughly wash the upper part of soda cans before drinking out of them. The cans are typically stocked in warehouses and transported straight to the shops without being cleaned. A study at NYCU showed that the tops of soda cans are more contaminated than public toilets I.e. Full of germs and bacteria. So wash them with before putting them to the mouth to avoid any kind of fatal accident. So if you know any friends / youngsters who drink out the can ... people you care about pass this on. I just did.

Myths with no Credence. Let's have a reality check on some silliness often spouted with no substance whatsoever. Indeed, when one puts a little fore thought to many, they are rather stupid. I'll start of with some pet hates I hear often repeated and I just can't believe that anyone can repeat, let alone believe. Sure it is often the norm, so persons take it as read, especially novices and new comers. Strangely also it is most (95%) of the ones doing a 'One Swallow summer' that spout the crap. A wise fancier in canada that grew up with the Jansennes etc. states a very simple truth when he says 'You usually see newcomers shine, win well withn 3 years if they are ever going to be any good as fanciers"! Because they smile and let crap scenarios fall to the ground and pay no attention to them. So lets get real on some of them Liberation usual moans: What time did the transporter set off? Answer: In, plenty of time … unless of course a break down. Did the birds get time for a drink? It was placed before them in plenty of time! Was they Fed watered (Fed) Answer: As above. Was there another Fed nearby? Most likely, there are more than a few close MOST weeks! AND 2/3 from the same site at least every week. Did the birds Clear / Clash? Answer: EER umm er weer… Birds going different directions fly at different heights for starters, if not then they may well join up of course if going Samish way (Drag). But mostly they DO have break every week or there would never be a result! Most Race controllers / liberators have their’ birds, on the transporter and their’ and your, plus and the sport at large interests at heart. So let’s get real here, of course they are doing their humanly utmost to ensure the best for ALL the birds … s**t happens, that’s why there are sewage. I lost my 90% of my race team (Old birds) this season in one race. Only 6 even now in Fed / Amalg… who’s fault? Mine. I knew that it was going to be rough week - end. In fact I made arrangements, in the week, to go out that Saturday night as was certain it would be held over that week – end, indeed to possibly the mid week. They went up at 11 for a nigh 500 miler. Never a moan from me, means another 2 seasons possiblely, to get up to strength again. Was actually giving my new strains their chance as 2 year olds. Certain strains eat more / differently: They won’t eat certain corn. They need feeding heavy and racing hard etc. Answer: Pigeons are flipping pigeons… some individuals vary of course as every creature does. But they like the same feed and water. They like the Freedom, and the safety feeling of their’ loft. They all like their’ own PERCH full stop. Over crowding the biggest lame crutch of all… they thrive on company, and only need pecking room, the more the merrier. OK diseases may spread quickly and rife… But that is a good thing also for the immune system. Needs: Good Air flow, and dryness. Loft needs to combat the varying climate overnight and the seasons. I.e. just look to the droppings at different times of day / night etc. I.e. looser droppings earlier in Morning / day and firmer droppings later. Breaking points: Just a better feeling for the fancier! It does no harm as long as the birds are getting mileage under their’ wings. How much and when is of course up to the manager … Personally I believe the more directions trained the better, and certainly find it better when training opposite direction for coming race. I feel it makes their ‘homing Instincts or whatever that bit sharper. I fly both routes, and find no difference whatsoever when swapping their route / Race points. Y/b I tend to swap their races points regularly as I feel this give them the ‘Honing’ of their ability and gives them greater confidence. Of course this again is a whim, and probably holds no credence. Have many more, but would love others to put some up.

Don't worry about it... they sprout for the sake of spouting. Only thing that may have some bearing, but I think is cods wallop tooo ... is what they might peck up in he gutters. So flush them out with a water hose pipe. Have to start a topic of 'Stupid Myths' or No creedance Myths'. EVERYONES birds go on roofs.. just nip around and see those that have told theirs don't when their birds are out. Yes a strict rutine of tight feeding on a very regular basis (Same Sex) may mean that they trap and seldom hit the roofs.... rarely, but sure as eggs are eggs that mixed sexes won't land on the roofs. It's self ego tripping ...,mmainly by those that are lastr most weeks.

Reckon the loft will be free delivery ... but the cost of them labels phew whizz lol ;D

No need, CASH ONLY ON COLLECTION / ARRIVAL! Now that is the way to go. If asking Amtrax etc. to deliver, then have a post dated cheque. Allow 3 days... time for Amtrax to deliver, and time for the cheque to arrive. If no satisfied, cancel cheque.

Glad they don't race in my Fed lol ;D

I thought we did... just shows how nieve, - Yes Duncan alright then Stupid I can be lol ;D

Unfortunately, as well as most of you know, the simply reality is such. If one feels their nose has been tweek, or put out of joint, Publically, then they feel that they should have every right to re - adress publically. (May be if only to save face, or genuinely believe that thay have been slights, undermined etc. Hence thay could then say simply. 'I've put that post, which I find ... (whatever offencise, etc. etc. in the 'Private sector' with an appropiate answer. So put up there, otherwise we can take t that you admit you are out of order, and as such Wrong!.

A private section, away from the main topic pages? I’ve always said that there should be a topic column for letting of steam at each other. Like the Camanco's. If one was 'Having a go' then a said party would invite the other(s) into that section! This is a private section, where one had to enlist separately to gain access, abeit with another Password. This meant only those wanting to be there entered! By entering they admit that they was acceptable to the contents that may well fly. Anyone and everyone with a point of view, or a beef to get shot of, went into that section and sorted it till it had run its course. If any one - normally trying to drum up others’ support or making bullets for another to fire, etc. etc. tried to bring it onto the 'Public Domain' - whether veiled or not, then they'd be censored and the posts deleted. If they persisted... then they weren't missed! Soon most were friends again and problem sorted. Strange it is o see some at logger heads in the 'Ring' yet still post to each other as normal on the Public Domain as if nothing was going on there. Have bought this up a few times, so I suppose the powers to be feel that it isn't needed or wanted...

LOL ;D ;D ;) So of course one thinks everyone has SEED incase a pigeon comes a calling. Knew a farmer that bought me a pigeon (Flown out) because he was at a loss what to feed it! then said that 'Pigeons were a nuisance and always eating his corn in the shed...

Firstly allow a flow of fresh air ... this should hit the back and then go out up through the cetre of the roof preferably. Clean water and feed only ever available. Then just set a routine that YOU can be regular with. make the birds adapt to YOUR system, and not you to theirs' ... When is in reality someone else's. So you will lose some and the bright spark that knows everything but doesn't very well will soon tell you why. Rubbish! Everyone, regardless of system loses birds... I do believe though that it is because in the main they don't like the system. BUT others will, and the ones bred with. GOOD birds do and Will adapt. But one nevers does any good as a norm swapping and changing all the time. They are creatures of habbit and instincs... by all means nellie to their qualms... but within your SYSTEM.