Roland

Brill... but the Gov now say that it is a danger because Kids might write with it, suck it, or their' fingers etc. Most chines shops still unofficially use it. they call it Cochroach Chalk does brill. Bought mine in from Canada. Will be getting some more no doubt, but not many restruants here will admit to you and let you have some of course...

Chriss I honestly wish i wasn't!

Yes heart will... but reality must sooner or later be taken into account. Golly misses moans enough already with out... the same beat goes on. Sort it out, get it up and running and I'll be there... But first things first, LOOK and the bigger picture. Andyes Chris you may well have also travelled 1000's of miles for free, but then again you can obviously afford too. many of us can't, Family commitments etc. etc. That has to be another slant. Sure I'm not down beating, just trying to set out the pitfalls and what is realism. Golly seen fanciers pack up because the subs went up a £1 a year!

Needs to be a national Courier firm like Amtrak or AMdeliveries... Yes a net work of pigeon fanciers in each county would be a great boon. Indeed they could work in conjuction with the national courier. Indeed pass birds over to niebouring counties Counties. Yes a fancier taking birds to adjoining county is great in essence, and theory works well, and should work... except fot two things, One Human elements, and two there will soon only be a few of us left, and getting more crap in the ear every day. Now from Peterbough to Northampton it is 50 miles say, and N to S same with a blumming lot of fanciers... time and place to collect! Yes have a collection piont for each CLUB and then they to another central collection point. Simple, probably would in reality need more than 1 or 2. Who is there that will start and carry it through, never mind the spirited flame glowing for starter, for the long haul. And does one really believe that if any one ceases to be able to do it that there will be another, let alone a queue to take their place?! Yes I have me name down. No I can't do 48 hour weeks driving for nowt. -Sure would at last have time to train me birds again... So that is surely the first stumbling block to sort out!

Done stacks already in many ways Chriss, raised £'000's of pounds, Bought two transporters with money raised Free! etc. etc. as many write ups in the BHW will attest ... and on the latter note of your's had done so yesterday. Apathy and wanting everyone, anyone barr themselves, to do it, and by golly a pat on the back quickly turns to crap if the slightest reason. Now tyat is the 'Core' we need to address, and doing everything for nowt makes you - in their eyes - a Jackass or a fool, and they ... well you will soon be able to finish that line.

Not quite true, yes it works, as many of us that use to ferret will attest to... But ticks - believe it or not, actually bury their head and breathe through their arses. like some talk I suppose... ;D But yes they have to come out to breathe. Creasote is marvelloes stuff... espeacially if allowed two three weeks to set in and dry. Beer mat as Dovescot says are great. I used Chinese chalk, and if any one can get any I'm willing to travel up and get some. Just draw a line undr perches, raound the nest box or bowls and Roberts your Mother's brother.

Rather a PR Firm, a Eagle Owl fund.... But Chris, just a pointer, you relate 'Free' Our selves etc. That is respectfully cockoo, pie in the sky. To fetch costs, then deliver cost fuel, whether a fancier or not. Time and effort for nowt soon becomes a Burden and a pain in the *expletive removed*. Then one will have to put up with the whingers and moaners ... OH Yes they will be there to spout, voice their' so called rights and make no mistake about that... even asking and saying things like 'Well Amtrax etc. cost a little more, or the great halo of 'Well if you didn't want to do it you shouldn't have volunteered... plenty who would have LMAO!...That they'd had rather have pay the little extra than.... crap scenario.... And then the pain reaches then neck! Soon there's jolt into the brain and a little voice saying 'Psst, Pystt, your p***sed off.... aint worth it... just p**s off and leave them to it. But in an ideal situation... and Ideal world, a right to...

Rather a PR Firm, a Eagle Owl fund.... But Chris, just a pointer, you relate 'Free' Our selves etc.

Hello, Knock Knock, any one there!!! Phil you say many things like 'They let me down with boxes, Not turning ... wrong day , late dliveries etc. etc. Knock knock, isn't there a little voice telling you something!!! We are not in a perfect world, system as a quick glance around will tell you. Muggers, Rapist, burgles and arson etc. etc. Getting the message there isn't and can't be a 100% correct functioning operation in this day and age. In any walk of life it seems, Human error, job satifaction exist or don't. They work for a few qyuiddies at week - end and just do their job as THEY se it. Like I say, a cuppa and a pleasant banter in the ear BY all you whingers would have meant that they - the drivers - understood. Be a dam site better service now than the one you love to pull to bits and moan about. For instance picked up a loasd from the 'Cheese Depot' in Worcester. They have been told umpteen times like NIGH every firm, that shrink wrapping HAS to go around the Pallet as well to secure load. 90% still don't do it. So you TELL them and thay say... 'It will be alright'! I say it won't and that after a braking it will be a muddle of squash cheddies at front of van. They offer to sign that they said I won't be held responcible.... Which you can't sign, because that would mean that you KNEW what would happen and still took it... Long story short First braking job and Thump... tIme you get to Dundonald it's a another chore and pain in the *expletive removed* hand balling it out! Then the crap moans and 'You should have refused ... you / thay know better... You know what,when you pick up from THEM it's the same senario... 'It'll will be alright... Struth and you think that in these times where every thing is time and money, and 'Just get it done' Amtrax or any other concern will / are getting it right. Blumming watch loads being load Top heavey by the boss and told 'It will be alright ... Photo it and say it will topple off first braking beand... 'Just this wonce' eh! Now if Amdelieries, or Amtack get Fanciers to Call centres for re - distibution... you may well have a better chance.... But pay is poor, many on basic to £6...

Phil, What I meant is simply that what you said is like still believing in the 'Tooth FAIRIES'. Couldn't even understand a company, any concern saying when you phoned. 'Oh yes, company policies state that ... but to tell the truth we won't even know who will be picking your birds up, doubt very much if they'd be interesed in your delivery / pick up. Most just get there pick up, and onwards to get there and back and then up the pie shop. As for boxes, gordon bennet bring some back from Aldie's. For Pete's sake give us a break here, boxes for Petes sake, haven't tou got oat better to moan about than flipping boxes. Sinmple mate, we do work only with the 'Tools ' Drivers we've got, so if don't like it sorry, I suppose you could laways take them your selve... They are Van drivers working on a thankless road, doing a thankless chore and being taken for granted, and are expected not only to know all the firms rulkes but everyone else's and even your and our fancy's whims and 'W

Future survival is all down to PR and promoting your sport/pastime at every opertunity, the RSPB have got well organised one. As soon as any bird topic is unveiled the media contact them and they are right on the job getting their oar in first "KILLER OWLS ATTACKING DOGS ON A PUBLIC FOOTPATH" Joe public hardly going to cause any fuss it dissapears :-/ Yet still the Fancy as a whole won't cotton on. 50p even each... but no they'll rather moan and expect the shiny white knight to appear... yes even now 700 years after they have disappeared. Talk about head in the sand. Might as well be. The reason yet again why the RPRA won't entertain the idea! Because of the members out cry of wasting THEIR' money! Struth Gordon Bennet, where are we here! Just what is, if any can be found, the down side! NONE,and that's another fact. Never mind the costs inncurred week in and week out, they horrid sight and dispicable sights incurred every week, week in and week out! No they'd rather moan than put their' hand in the pocket for a PR Firm. Just 50 blumming pence each member! Again, never mind the cheaper and effective 'Pour On' that has great hidden treasures... they rather spend a lot more on lesser products to make a 'Name' more wealthy when that NMAME should be promoting 'Pour On' for the better as a whole for the sport! We do wonderful charity works, and on here it is also very true. how about a breeder buyer where all the proceeds, or even 75% say, goes to each club buying an Eagle Owl! No, no blumming way, much rather whinge and moan forever, and see the desolcration instead. Where is the Mouth piece that will bring together every other concern to unite? Where are these marvel men that run companies that have the time, and effect to spare, to fork out THEIR money to combat these purges. Yes in this cuckoo land of ours the members still think thak they will appear and with great vengance put right to rights. Hope it is the bump falling out of bed that wakes the up. mind be to late then, because the Raptors will be sort each other out, for that will be the only food left. I'll donate my services free for such causes, to raise money, if cost petrol is put up! Offered many times, but never took up! rosscoleyevents.co.uk

Great for removing ticks etc. too. But doesn't do much for the feathers. Further it will aggrovat and tends to burn the skin I amj told.

Dovescot I remember it well.. 'You have shares in Amtrax' lol Anyway I see, respectfully, that YOU have set the stool out a mite to help the drivers to help you! I say a cuppa and a chat if ou remember. They are Drivers firstly and foremost, simply just earning a crust. But if time is taken, and again this is where the whining moaners let themselves and ALL fanciers down, They are to be enlightened as to what and why! Last week in a shoe factory, this week taking pigeons up the road... So what! So they are blah blah... and elievate their ignorance! If instead of moaning and finding fault the VERUY SAME members explained the gist, and there are enough whingers out there to whinge for Europe let alone the county, THEN all the drivers would have been only to pleased to be enlightened. Then a better service no doubt. But the cry then is by silly fanciers 'That's not my job... they should KNOW what they are doing ... Bloody heckkers they aren't stupid they know they need feeding and watering etc. etc. NO they don't know, and why should they..... THEY just get paid for taking a carton from A to B. and They quite right sau the onnus IS WITH the sender to enlighten to any need to be none status and quite blumming right too. Never had a problem granted, but alway offer a cuppa, and ALWAYS mention in a round about conversation to unknowing but probably a intelligent being about the needs. AM deliveries will also employ drivers of the same ilk. Never minf the Ooo and ahhhs, and hopefully will get it right. Let's hope so. Still haven't seen many of the 'Better treatment' brigade putting their services, money let alone time forward. No doubt saving energy waiting for the next thing to moan about. As for Phils' post, well too silly to warrent mention let alone an answer, except to say 'Exactly what I am on about. Stupidity in the highest degree. Never yet seen a newbe know everything'. Remember now, in retrospect, why firms really only ever employ 16 year olds and the likes of Phil... they know it all.

Yes a great lot of sense and truth and realism there... Further I say that is why some realistic managerment by a so - called 'Back Garden' flyer will still prevail.... He only breeds what he wants. Doesn't dabble too much with the incest, line breeds of course, and has a few friends like him to introduce new blood with 'Swaps' ... like the money boys do on a different level lol.

Golly give the man a chance. If it was in 1 or 2 of my clubs the results wouldn't out till gone 9 to 10 O'clock even. Now as it is to his own loft, I see why one things it should be uicker, but I'd go along with him having the time and patience to do it within his own time and terms personally.

Yes i remember well the Trains. How BR even built special carriages for air etc. etc. How the Guards took responcibilty to release training birds, and the strays returned. Also how the fancy crapped on them also big time! Admitted the masses will led like gullible sheep by the 'Own Able' and Trust Me' self interested brigade with their cars etc. 'Pie in the Sky' that was too. The first thing the did was manipulate it so the Back Garden fancier couldn't get his birds tossed etc. And a blumming lot more harm they did / are doing now to this sport with their self disregards for the very basic grass roots.

May be the quote was aimed at me… maybe not, but I’ll certain put the cap on. I stuck by them, as everyone knows, because the simple reality is that we couldn't do with out them! Or as one may put it....' You can always do without Tom, Dick or Harry, but how much better can one do with them'! Personally, as some on here can vouch, I travel 100’s of mile to fetch birds… Let's climb of the 'Pie in the Sky; scenario, that won't feed you. Let's be truthfully blunt here. I've seen all the good talk, right words and fight the good fight over the last 25 years and more. Seen anther GOOD courier or two go bust. Seen umpteen not interested yes still heard the constant bleating, whining and moan none stop about the ONLY concern willing and 99% of the time able to do us, and our birds proud. There are, and have been millions transported by Amtrax, and an overwhelming good pass rate achieved. That is a fact! Golly hands up all those that haven't made a mistake at work... have been 100% perfect all your working life’s!!! Seen umpteen calls for Stray centers, seen the Why don't we set up our own relay system, etc. etc. etc. SEEN every time it fall flat on it's *expletive removed* because all of a sudden 'We; become 'YOU' and we / you don't go no further! fact. On here Bewted tried. Great till A. time, Money, effort and 'YOU men ME' syndrome set in. Lets here it once and all for the BOYS - and ladies 'WHY doesn't some one get off their' fat lazy arses and drive around the countries of GB and collect my pigeons for me, and a few other why they are it', safe and soundly, and water and feed them while they are at it'!! AND the encore 'If it's free MORE will want their birds back! Well that makes perfectly good sense to me! Been shouting it for 25 years now... maybe, just maybe some one will if w keep shout long enough in the next 50 years or so ... But in the mean time....

Yep, I think a lot of truth and sense there.Plus they have had their basic instincs etc. bred out of them via Line and incest breeding. Too many haven't a clue, and most too ofen, indeed they believe that if they can keep a line looking like the generations before they will have world beaters.

It was time for Father John's Saturday night bath and the young nun, Sister Magdalene, had prepared the bath water and towels just the way the old nun had instructed. Sister Magdalene was also instructed not to look at Father John's nakedness if she could help it, do whatever he told her to do, and pray. The next morning the old nun asked Sister Magdalene how the Saturday night bath had gone. 'Oh, sister,' said the young nun dreamily, 'I've been saved.' 'Saved? And how did that come about?' asked the old nun. 'Well, when Father John was soaking in the tub, he asked me to wash him, and while I was washing him he guided my hand down between his legs where he said the Lord keeps the Key to Heaven.' 'Did he now?' said the old nun evenly. Sister Magdalene continued, 'And Father John said that if the Key to Heaven fit my lock, the portals of Heaven would be opened to me and I would be assured salvation and eternal peace. And then Father John guided his Key to Heaven into my lock.' 'Is that a fact?' said the old nun even more evenly. 'At first it hurt terribly, but Father John said the pathway to salvation was often painful and that the glory of God would soon swell my heart with ecstasy. And it did, it felt so good being saved.' 'That wicked old b******' said the old nun. 'He told me it was Gabriel's Horn, and I've been blowing it for 40 years!

Feel personally that 'Cost Effective' is best Phil. Why? Well I believe that the first off they are to get the basic raw enjoyment. Secondarily they learn as a better rate, and get to know the ropes and realism. Great flyer, whom I visited and was related, once spent all day telling me nowt! As I left he said 'Disappointed in not learning any thing'! I replied 'True' He replied, 'Go out and enjoy them, make the mistakes, and do as you dream / wish, for you will in any case, then come back in three years and we really get down to the nitty gritty'. He was right, novices tend to listen any and every body and then do their own thing, naturally. But is better cost efective. They learn quick enough to part with their hard earnt cash. Further may I also add here what a'Great' told me....... 'If they 'Have got it' they tend to shine within three years. Yes those with a good tutor early on, doing the tried and tested methods. Sure they change a bit here and there, but............ JMO

Any bird that can't the 500 is best lost. Now it isn't getting the birds to fly the distance, it is getting them back quickish and smart like. So where a blumming good deal fall short is simply not being sent. Too many say stuff like 'Well they are only a middle distance bird at best, or Mine wouldn't be able to do it'! etc. etc. only way to build up a relible and trustworthy 'Distance / hard day' racers is to send them. Then of course only those able - if given the chance in good condition - are there to breed from come next season. Then of course it is the reliable, and trusted imports off another similar fancier or two like yourselves that you swap or buy in from... P.s. Never buy from any sale that doesn't have the actual goodies there... that means that anything any good has already gone. Sure one or two may have been promised FULL STOP!

Know of a teenager that started up and bought big of a world renowned flyer. Everyone but everyone spouts about how great a flyer he is / was. Everyone but everyone also said 'Never buy oat off him....' Well the secretary on the lad's dad's beckoning spent the day there at the extremely good and well maintained lofts in great lawned settings and bought a few quiddies of birds. A few late breds, but mainly stock OFF the proven- or so called. the secretary was a good friend of him, so he also gave him so, as did one or two others. 1984 it was. Any way he started winning few , and in 87 flew very well. Tried to give all the 'Name Birds' away to any one that would have them. None did! Yes the freebie's to help him start did the damage with good free advice. Which unlike most newcomers he took! Got laid low once and all by another bird though, and then Married her... Never flew again.

Even Jan Arden's son after 3 years never had any of his fathers strain... yet was amazed at all those that did... And that was many many years back now. Hienz is the only genuine strain... number 4566233154 I believe!

Just shows how little it seems to be used...

http://www.pigeoncote.com/lancast/lancas6.html http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/8416/NCOC.html http://www.chineseowl.com/ and of course http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Chinese+Owls+pigeons&meta=