Roland

And your solutions? Nowt you have stated hasn't been stated countless times. Costwise, realism, etc. etc. means CHANGE within. What I have a job to come to terms with are two main things. A. if members have allowed this to happen, why won't it happen to the other NEW concern? It will be run vis people. It will quickly have 'Leaders & Followers' Those that take advantage, feather own nests and swell chest for photo's, cliques etc. etc. Indeed every thing that we already have. When not in office, or starting up Moon Cheese' is often readily available. Secondarily, WHO is going to get folks off bums, subscribe names, post monetarily guarantees. Indeed where is and will the money come from. Most will without doubt 'Wait and See' and certain won't put their hand in their pockets for a promise, especially with a bird in the hand. Further without doubt having satalite concerns only ever weakens each concern. History proves everytime anything is lessen it get disgarded and / or quickly runs into some kind of hassle... and too many fold.

Behave Chris, your got brown all around your mouth with spouting crap like that. Only time one is envious is when they can't up house and move to the East etc. Agreed many also don't wish to, or would. But very few indeed are jealous... get a life and put that ole chestnut away. Saying that one has Location / Position is Fact, not jealousy. struth ...

meetings that haven't much in the past? Who always has, and will continue to do so? Who goes to Fed mettings - like me - though not the Rep? Who goes to regional meeting though not the rep? The last one I have to say I have as of late... But fully intend to again as of now.

Regards them listening. Simple discuss before attending Club meeting. All go to the RPRA regional meeting and see that your elected representive votes as instructed. Go to the higher meeting and see that the REGION votes as instructed. Too many just smile and agree, knowing full well when they get there they will follow 'Names / Leaders wishes and lick *expletive removed* why voting their way. Come back and spill crap as to why it was / is better to have done so. So basically I say GET to meeting, put up or shut up! if any one has a better way, quicker, smarter way please post as such, for let me assure one and all, I am deffinately interested. Like I missed to replying to Merlins saying yesterday.' ... to bring in P.R people at this stage would only paper over the cracks, P.R is essential for our sport, but its important we get our own house in order first, and its nigh on impossible to do this from within, those in authority and our outdated administration makes this impossible. Firstly i wasn't implying a PR Firm in regards Karen, but that it should have been put into place 20 years ago! Further it would have been if not for the members out cry of THEIR money, and surely some buiesness men could do it free! And the reason that those in authority with out dated regimes still do so is three parts. A. Because they can. B. Because they are voted in. C they shift via their Clique any genuine person that wants better ALL round. Couldn't have done so though if members had backed decent reps, those genuine ones instead of the Names' that are purely there for own interests. Mind they still do a lot of work for the concern.... they have to, because when skinning someone, you must leave a little skin.... so it can grow back to be skinned again. TAIL lickers have a lot to answer for. Their 'I'm in the in crowd' scenario' has cost us dear granted.

Very good point Merlin regards the back door entry of E.T.'s ... Answer: Well where have the members been the last 30 years or more! Where and when have they been there to voice an opinion. Bet your bottom dollar that, IF in the past, the members did as they should and attended, had been heard and hence taken notice of, it would have been possibly a very different outcome. Not to say that IF the Law were as such that it wouldn't have still been past, though personally have never even dreamed that to be correct. But they would have know that there would have been out cry and Members strength, because so much would have been different in the past! Most committees do, as they like because they CAN and Have! They have known, without a shadow of doubt, that only a lonesome voice in the wilderness would be heard... The rest would whinge over a pint or from an armchair. Remember a COUPLE of private court cases, as many will recall, from a wealthy man that could afford to and DID so to win his case. If the whiners etc. had been at meetings and HAD their’ say, who knows how much better the RPRA would be today? Don't know that, but I do know a darn site better and more even across the board.

Great Super Star, and everything is just hot air. First thing to be critical of is MEMEBERS 'Not attending meeting, any meetings. Second is members have waiting years for 'SOMEONE else to do it. Thirdly critical is licking up to names and playing 'follow the leader' many others but then place at top 'Whinges in Arm Chairs. First constructive thing is 'Attend meeting! Second constructive issue is 'what is best for ALL and Not the favoured few! Then the REALISMS put forward and not silly Dreams! So now we should ask every one who WILL attend meetings whenever possible to put their' names UP on the list pronto! Ok now let's NAME and Shame these ole fossils stating why? Who needs to be removed and WHY! Who lines their own pockets and how and why! etc. etc. Remember there is only one answer to why! Karen may be whatever one wishes, or believes, or wants to believe... Is the building let? Last I heard was it was being demolished! Best spend money there first then eh! I don't think so. I don't know how hard she worked... she got paid I know that much! You, others, and I have worked hard for years. I've worked blood hard from the age of 10 or so picking potatoes etc. Baling, Back of the Sledge at 12 stacking the bales for 16 - 17 hours a day from 12 years old. I've raised £1000's for charity and many 'Good Causes' for nowt... many times not even a thank you! Raised 1000's of £#s with out even being thanked. Run Boxing Clubs, Youth F.C.'s leagues etc. President / Chairmen of pigeon clubs etc for Free. But Karen, regardless what one wishes to believe committed the cardinal sin 'Betraying a Trust'! Never mind whether one wishes to believe it was for the right reasons, never mind if one wishes to believe it was for the best, never mind if one wishes to defend saying 'It had to be said' or wish to defend and force her re - instatement. Very few on here could do the same where they held a position of trust and keep their job'! Yes I admire Karen, but she knew all the rules. Indeed has quoted one to me that put ME RIGHT ONCE! So let's not keep confusing these issues between one then the others. RPRA was slated for say the Avian Flu, many of us wanted action -I know I did, I wrote to many MP.'s and E MP's Found one that was a son of a great fancier.... no one wanted to know. RPRA did the deeds whether you slagged Peter of or not! What were the many funds being set up.... where did they go? F & M RPRA did that right too. PMV jabs, regardless what we want, it turned out they did that WERE right too... ALL in opposition to the members thoughts and dreams - Perhaps they believed that the members wishes could or wouldn't be carried through ... well certainly wouldn't have been by the members and that the SAD fact. So start a heading ‘Changes the RPRA need to make, would be a start. Then another one ‘I promise to attend meetings from now on! Another, ‘Realism of progress’. P.S this is also on the wrong site, so will start another thread. RPRA FOSSILS WITH THIS POSTING.

Great Super Star, and everything is just hot air. First thing to be critical of is MEMEBERS 'Not attending meeting, any meetings. Second is members have waiting years for 'SOMEONE else to do it. Thirdly critical is licking up to names and playing 'follow the leader' many others but then place at top 'Whinges in Arm Chairs. First constructive thing is 'Attend meeting! Second constructive issue is 'what is best for ALL and Not the favoured few! Then the REALISMS put forward and not silly Dreams! So now we should ask every one who WILL attend meetings whenever possible to put their' names UP on the list pronto! Ok now let's NAME and Shame these ole fossils stating why? Who needs to be removed and WHY! Who lines their own pockets and how and why! etc. etc. Remember there is only one answer to why! Karen may be whatever one wishes, or believes, or wants to believe... Is the building let? Last I heard was it was being demolished! Best spend money there first then eh! I don't think so. I don't know how hard she worked... she got paid I know that much! You, others, and I have worked hard for years. I've worked blood hard from the age of 10 or so picking potatoes etc. Baling, Back of the Sledge at 12 stacking the bales for 16 - 17 hours a day from 12 years old. I've raised £1000's for charity and many 'Good Causes' for nowt... many times not even a thank you! Raised 1000's of £#s with out even being thanked. Run Boxing Clubs, Youth F.C.'s leagues etc. President / Chairmen of pigeon clubs etc for Free. But Karen, regardless what one wishes to believe committed the cardinal sin 'Betraying a Trust'! Never mind whether one wishes to believe it was for the right reasons, never mind if one wishes to believe it was for the best, never mind if one wishes to defend saying 'It had to be said' or wish to defend and force her re - instatement. Very few on here could do the same where they held a position of trust and keep their job'! Yes I admire Karen, but she knew all the rules. Indeed has quoted one to me that put ME RIGHT ONCE! So let's not keep confusing these issues between one then the others. RPRA was slated for say the Avian Flu, many of us wanted action -I know I did, I wrote to many MP.'s and E MP's Found one that was a son of a great fancier.... no one wanted to know. RPRA did the deeds whether you slagged Peter of or not! What were the many funds being set up.... where did they go? F & M RPRA did that right too. PMV jabs, regardless what we want, it turned out they did that WERE right too... ALL in opposition to the members thoughts and dreams - Perhaps they believed that the members wishes could or wouldn't be carried through ... well certainly wouldn't have been by the members and that the SAD fact. So start a heading ‘Changes the RPRA need to make, would be a start. Then another one ‘I promise to attend meetings from now on! Another, ‘Realism of progress’. P.S this is also on the wrong site, so will start another thread. RPRA FOSSILS WITH THIS POSTING.

http://pack.google.com/intl/en/pack_installer.html?ciNum=13&hl=en These have them all ... free too. Very impressive.

Turner Newark is suppling many with great winners.

Management and systems

Where does this crap come from that the RPRA are short of money!!! It's not and well most should know. As for sinking obviously far from it. Further MUCH the reason the RPRA don't invest, spend, is because of the members out cry every time they spend a penny. and that's not for a crap lol. Some folks it seems draw notions out of thin air and quickly convince themselves it's true, (Mostly because it suits their purpose) whilst others just take anything derogative as gospel and run wit it. Geez give us strength. There is surely enough that wants looking into that's constructive, of use and worthwhile without these mindless quims and day dreams!

Nah Kirkpatrick still. ;D

Coolemans

Saw a post yesterday of a pigeon born 1975! Some age that I feel.

Roland you are correct on certain things and yes it will fade into the woodwork next week, but the bigger point made is that until we start to attend those meetings and vote to change things the sport wont move forwards...and by the way my own name would be up there as well as it was with the ‘bewted post’.... So would mine! Though I’d be outvoted lol for any position voted on lol But I believe that rather start again etc. sure it is better to utilise the 'Ship' we have now! Yes great to throw ideas around here, constructive and no so much will, I'm sure, put a lot of good ideas to the fore front of what is, Needed, wanted and above all a standard that is acceptable to the members in general. Sadly I fear though, that after all the good effort, ideas, discussions would all be useless until members start attending meetings and putting them forward. Moaning, whinging solitary voice in the wilderness are useless, and soon become a pain and a No No situation straight off after a short spell. So, come on lads, voice on, and let's hear it said at meeting too. No! They won't do just as they like - as they always do - NOT if you are there to promote and vote! Might take a few sittings, but first off the club will straight away be a lot healthier, a good club spirit abounding again, and that means success! Not just for the club, and the better standard of racing (for that will certainly happen) but for you!

Go on then, I go a fiver with delivery lol :P

Never liked eating Rabbits lol. and My kids and grand children quickly grew out of them. Though their mum still has a few - my first wife like.

;DWell Lerwick is in England, and the Scots still want Berwick on tee. The Scots own Northampton till the 'Northampton Agreement' back in 1300 odd. Yeah I think the Scots would love to see some good pigeons.... even if they were English lol ;D

Hi Grasshopper, I took to your posts, and generousity... maybe a little of 'Can't get shot of' lol. But pm me after Xmas and I will breed you a pair of youngsters. May well be April or so till you get them, but they are your's for the asking. Good luck young mucker

Merlin, the P. R. factor, likes the other few mention - of which there is unfortunately vastly many - is what has been advocated for yonks. Indeed it is the very much fear of the members out cry that has prevented it. Like so much more. The main point here is surely 'Put up or Shut up'. If every one feels as they actually say, and acted as such, of course the MEETINGS of every level would be swamped. Those elected to place our votes would for instance HAVE to vote as the club says / Fed etc. said and democratically voted. But they don't, as most must realise. Would if meeting were attended. Liken it to an Animal Right activist that was collecting money for the fight against Labourites using animals. -Whether one agrees or not in this instance is irrelevant - I went over and said that I totally agreed, that WE should make a stand! That to show how strongly we felt on this matter and to make a real stand. He agreed of course. I then went on and stated that as such, to prove a point and to really get it across, acts of proper significance should be the order of the day, ones that the media covered with praise for our efforts, instead of attacking homes and buildings etc. He warmed, but was starting to feel uneasy by the look of his posture and agitated movements. Like, I said, our refuse to use ANY product that had been used upon animals for the so - called benefit of mankind. That regardless of pain, detrimental aspects of our senses we should refuse them. Indeed when in hospital, what better chance to shun any and all such medicine that were formulated with the help of experiments upon animals. He said that was ridiculous idea, that we'd suffer great pains and what not, and shortly packed up his stool and left. Similar here I feel all too many times, the out cry, and so heartened are we by them… The very things that are proposed, the very way forward is no more than what is already in place, and being done. The only reason that certain ones seem to get away with it is no more that the members not attending and having their say. Staying also with the very way of which they intended to vote when getting there. IF we attended, and VOTED things would have never been allowed to get this way in the first place. Further every decade is to blame, and mark my words, this decade, and the next will go the very same way UNTILL we all attend. That is the simple truth and reality I’m afraid.

Realism please, just who are they, and how does one replace them? By exactly the same method as is already in place. Forget all the ardour and response here... Be real and look back at just that last short time. Bewted got a great plan for strays... everyone rooting... died a death through Apathy when names were asked to be put forward. Avian Flu.... What an outcry! What a mess, and apathy set in..... talk nowt done... still ent. Hawks / Raptures, Corridor flying, Strays etc. etc. forget it, APATHY will have set in and few names will be put forward. RPRA regards the Flu did more than all the rants and raves and bickering than all those members put together ... indeed what in reality did, or has the members ever done! YES great fundraisers for noble and charity. Thankless via the public ... becuase they never know, hear about it! Every year we give... but we can't / couldn't even manage a good pee up in the pub if the beer was free... No one would serve, and soon be forgotten. RPRA wanted one little £'ddy A YEAR to promote a PR. Firm Members outrage stops them. What and how for instance does one really expect to fight organised concerns like the RSPB etc with the rolling well organised machinery of mass publicity! Moan in the local I guess. They laugh at us and every other concern that is affected by Raptures / falcons etc. Not a shred of help via the members, just moans that the Government, the RPRA etc. etc. should do this and that... and then take the rug away because you can't get a brainy businessman to give up his livelihood to work full time and above for NOTHING as he keeps pigeons. PR Firms mean THINK TANKS, MEANS how Joe public see it. Has means to the 'People' that matter, leeway in the corridors of power.... But a £! coin! Forget it, lets moan instead and sooner - if any left - that Knight in white armour will be here. Let me say this, this time tomorrow, next week, next year decade etc. everything will be the same ... if there is such a thing as pigeon racing as we know it today. Should have gone down the road of 'One loft races for Corporate concerns, ten years ago. They would have pave the way for club / Fed / Alma / Combine and National races every WEEK for a lot less money... But that don't suit too many... Mostly of course the members that rather moan. So tel just whose names are we looking for? Further just who's names are putting themselves forward. Be great to stat a thread called 'Put my name up'!

I believe that j.bamling spits out the realistic truth there when say ... 'he is in a great spot heshould top it more from his spot But what's best good fed winning birds into a bad spot or Good winning birds into a good one for me I always look For the first one !! That is, and must surely be the critieria of any one buying in birds. Learnt yonks ago, with regards of say 'Open races' - seldom took note lol - 'It is better buying a bag of corn, or a toss or two that try and beat a Location'. As true now as it has ever been, and is one of the utmost proven part of racing!

Time is all I have, and very little of it lol. But hopefully in 3/4/5 years with your's, Albear's and the load I bought in of Frank Bristow I may well do well. I know I had good pigeons of off you and Albear. As for Bristow, I had the pick of anything I wanted within reason. Further I had Franks help regards his birds. No obligations, just straight forward talk as to what he thought and believed. Kipps, Thas, Cessearts and Coolemans all off their' directs. No pension left lol. Have some old stock of King's Delbar's, Pickering Jansens. Blues and Red Shallie's. But these are being fazed out.

You know, comments here more than substantiate the 'Close Silly Season Stupidity'. Golly, whatever way you look at it, Karen was wrong, further was out of order. Regardless of what one wants / needs or desires. Not many would keep a job ANYWHERE for such a breach of trust. And here we are - well not me - crying out for heads to roll etc. Get real! I feel Frank and IB have summed it up correctly. And forget about headless nameless people being voted in to look after your’ / our interests... That is what is suppose to be happening NOW! This has been the case for yonks. Now do you know who those are that are really to blame? !!! Yes those that don't attend meetings, AGM’'s and regional meetings etc. and even CLUB meetings!. Yes I know, it is simpler to cry to a Mag / Rag or spout out futilely on a site. Yet too many have tried to alter things, most very genuine, indeed the very genuine ones pack up altogether, finding it a waste of time and effort! and WHY... Because the MEMEBERS don't back them! Yes that is the pure and simple fact! Maybe, just maybe some on here and other sites might (who don't now) will attend and go to meetings! Will be a very minority I'd lay money on it! Who knows Karens plight may just kick start a sensible realistic worthwhile re - action Old pals act I hear cry? Of course! Yes granted, and who's interests do they really rally for... Friends yes again. Those that are in a better position and who BOTHER to go and attend meetings. The rest moan, they spout 'Waste of time they will do as they want'! Well yes, because most don't bother to go and be heard! So yes Karen may have spoken out for the members! Out of order as it was, but don't rally willy - nilly to her cause, rather feel ashamed that the members apathy and not attending important meetings and voicing concerns, opinions etc. Guilt complex should rankle some! Yes the members have allowed this for far to long to be the case, sleeping lemons!

On the site here, the Grain chart is higher.