Antibiotics Use

[Roland]

I see in another topic - Y/b's sickness and others, the clamour and so called uses of Antibiotics.

Now the fact nigh every body hasn't an inkling what, why and how this is, but are happy to grab at baytril etc. etc.

 

Antibiotics are poisons that work by building up to a certain concentration in the blood and once they reach the correct concentration, they become toxic to the bacteria (and other things) that they are intended to treat. They do not address the problem until they reach the required toxic level of concentration in the blood stream and this takes time. That is why the doctor / Vets always insists that patients take the full prescription at the time prescribed. The correct concentration of the drug in the blood has to be reached and then maintained to eliminate the disease causing bacteria.

How many vets do we know that specialize in Pigeons? Indeed this goes too to most Avian vets.

 

Antibiotics such as tylan, doxicycline and most of the other antibiotics used by pigeon fanciers are designed to reach the target level of concentration in the blood only after several doses and after two or three days of scheduled use. Giving them one day, say Sunday, after returning from a race is useless. The treatment adds nothing of value because one dose is inadequate to reach blood concentrations anywhere near what would be lethal to any disease-causing organism. The only benefit of abusing antibiotics in this way is purely psychological on the part of the fancier. It makes the fancier feel good, not the bird. What it does is build the resistance of the disease causing organisms by chronic under dosing and encourages the government food and drug watchdogs to push for bans on the sale of these antibiotics without medical supervision.

 

Abusing antibiotics is more serious than most of the other silly things that we pigeon fanciers constantly do to make us feel like we are increasing our chances of winning. This is because this type of abuse can actually pose a threat to human health. The good effective drugs get banned or become less effective as a result and we only have ourselves to blame.

 

Likewise and moreso with animals etc. the Willy - Nilly use, and the lame excuse 'So and So uses it --- probably has a lot more savvy than him that says that as it shows again treating blind.

 

Ok here is a good well thought out remedies by chemists etc.

 

As a thumb rule, regular strength tetracycline antibiotics like Terramycin are used for pigeons at 4 level teaspoons per 4 litres of water for 7-14 days, and Terramycin concentrate powder is used at 2 teaspoons per 4 litres for the same treatment period - so it's important to read the label to know the strength of product you've bought. As Hal says, the use of a small amount of citric acid (from lemons) - or apple cider vinegar - added to these solutions aids immensely in the absorption of this class of antibiotic across the intestinal wall and into blood vessels for distribution throughout the body. In chickens, erythromycin (commercial name: Gallimycin) is very useful in dealing with Mycoplasma species that are part of a respiratory problem. It is much less useful in pigeons since their crop bacteria destroy it readily (they destroy chloramphenicol too) so it is hard to get a good treatment level of either of these drugs into the bloodstream. Injection of chloramphenicol by needle and syringe gets around this problem. Gord.

 

Oxfendazole is a member of the benz-i-mi-da-zole family which is a large chemical family used to treat worm and fluke infections. However, there is widespread development of resistance and their use is decreasing. They have broad activity against roundworms and a wide safety margin. There are several: mebendazole, flubendazole, fenbendazole, oxfendazole, oxibendazole, albendazole, etc.. The most effective of the group are those with the longest life in the body - such as oxfendazole, fenbendazole, albendazole, because they are not rapidly metabolized to inactive products. Effective concentrations are maintained for an extended period in the plasma and gut. Mebendazole, flubendazole, and fenbendazole are effective against worms in the digestive and respiratory tracts of birds. Fenbendazole (commercial name: Panacur) is about 80-100% effective against roundworms but should be avoided because it can easily cause feather abnormalities in overdose.

Other wormers:

Ivermectin (Ivomec, Eqvalen): Broad spectrum wormer, a member of the avermectin family. Effective against roundworms, hairworms and stomach wall worms.

Dose: 500 -1000 mg per bird. Can be dosed in the drinking water, but the efficacy of this method is debatable. The surest way is to treat the pigeons individually. 1-2 drops by mouth of Ivomec is the correct dose. The higher dosage is needed to treat roundworms and, for some reason, even this is occasionally ineffective.

New generation avermectins such as Abamectin may be more effective. Abamectin is a relatively new product and is applied as drops to the skin; it is highly effective against hairworms and roundworms as well as external parasites such as lice and mites. It is currently available in Europe.

 

Moxidectin: A member of the Milbemycin family, Moxidectin is a highly effective product that provides prolonged protection against re-infestation, effective against hairworms, roundworms and external parasites. It seems to be a relatively safe product that is used in the water and can be given during the breeding, moulting and racing seasons.

 

Levamisole (Tramisol, Levasol, Ripercol): Good against roundworms (70-90% effective), but usually fails when used to treat threadworms or stomach wall worms.

Dose: 1 to 1.5 grams per gallon for 1-2 days. NOTE: This dosage often causes some pigeons to vomit. This drug is an immune stimulant even at lower dosages.

 

Piperazine: Effective against roundworms only, and only 60-80% effective here.

Dose: 15 mg per bird (300 mg per gallon) for 2 days. It is best to avoid using piperazine.

 

Praziquantel (Droncit): Excellent against tapeworms and flukes.

Dose: 6 mg per pigeon once (1/4 of a cat-size Droncit tablet).

 

Pyrantel Pamoate: Excellent against roundworms - 80 to 100% effective.

Dose: 1-2 mg per pigeon – 75 mg per gallon for 1-2 days. Repeat in 3 weeks.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

But are we chemists?

[Novice]

Even though I haven't read the article fully ( I need several readings to understand it fully) it seems very interesting.

I note that oral dosage of Ivomectin is recommended for worm treatment while most fanciers seem to think that 2 drops on the back of the neck does the job.

Now there's another myth exploded which agrees with which I have been taught.

 

First reading seems to indicate that an acidic medium increases the adsorption of tetracycline. I never knew that!

[buster151]

A very good informative post have learnt a couple things from that,

[THE FIFER]

Antibiotics , should they be given as a single take or like humans taken as a course ,

[Wiley]

its a very good post and i must highlight something from it that also in my opinion many fancier make the mistake and think they are gaining a benefit from doing so "Giving them one day, say Sunday, after returning from a race is useless. The treatment adds nothing of value because one dose is inadequate to reach blood concentrations anywhere near what would be lethal to any disease-causing organism. The only benefit of abusing antibiotics in this way is purely psychological on the part of the fancier. It makes the fancier feel good, not the bird."

[yeboah]

My workshops are directly opposite the doctors surgery

Dozen upon dozens of people make a daily pilgrimage through the doors then most proceed to the chemist for their antibiotics

Also directly opposite the workshop is St andrews church which has more often than not a hearse parked at the main entrance door

I have often wondered are these the ones that frequented the doctors or the ones that didn't ?

[Roland]

Well I visit two doctor surgeries and READ the Posters scattered about trying to show / educate those feeling a need of antibiotics. Plus same around the hospitals notice boards. They have lists now saying where they don't, or can't help... like viruses' / Colds etc.

Indeed the medical professions have for a decade or more been trying to cut down on their use.

A 'Feel good factor' as stated above is often the reality No more than a Placebo.

Not to say of course in a given case antibiotics are of use of course and obviously have their place. Best if a Doc / vet prescribes surely.

[tommy2]

Well I visit two doctor surgeries and READ the Posters scattered about trying to show / educate those feeling a need of antibiotics. Plus same around the hospitals notice boards. They have lists now saying where they don't, or can't help... like viruses' / Colds etc.

Indeed the medical professions have for a decade or more been trying to cut down on their use.

A 'Feel good factor' as stated above is often the reality No more than a Placebo.

Not to say of course in a given case antibiotics are of use of course and obviously have their place. Best if a Doc / vet prescribes surely.

Indeed the medical professions have for a decade or more been trying to cut down on their use

.Shame the very same medical "so called" professionals were they ones giving antibiotics out like sweets for 50 years before...i s**t on them!!!!...

[dal2]

Does anybody use antibiotics to win?.....or jst try to make sick birds better? I cant understand why anybody would use it to win

[Roland]

Have posted before, but still feel it is of an interest.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120319094520.htm

Pigeons need to breathe too.

[KIDDON]

I would not treat birds unless they were actually ill giving so called preventative treatments in my opinion weakens the birds own immune system

[dal2]

I would not treat birds unless they were actually ill giving so called preventative treatments in my opinion weakens the birds own immune system

Would you give antibiotics to an unwell pigeon?

[dal2]

Have posted before, but still feel it is of an interest.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120319094520.htm

Pigeons need to breathe too.

Is ybs a resp prob?

[eastcoaster]

Is ybs a resp prob?

I was told something very similar just yesterday .

[Roland]

Would you give antibiotics to an unwell pigeon?

 

A very good post Da12.

We - normally try to strengthen an ailing body.

 

There again one - or some- give electrolytes to pigeons returning from a race.- I'd never entertain the idea. Gosh what pigeons go through in spite of us should be enough surely.