Celibate Obs And Ybs

[neila]

Has any members raced both cocks and hens on the celibate system and their ybs to from the same sections cocks in one hens in the other both ybs and obs mixed

I was just wondering reason being is I have very limited time and wanted to try a new system ,early in the year I have about 90 mins with my birds in the morning as I arrive home after 730 pm so letting them out is limited time wise ,plus I wish to race both sexes so allowing 3 sets out is not easy in the time I have

 

I do have a small weaning pen to put the squeakers in, and I was thinking once the ybs were 30-35 days old(cocks and hens ring numbers and sex noted from ringing stage)I could split them into the adult sections cocks in with the old cocks and hens the same to where they would spend the rest of there life while racing this would be done late feb early march so the ybs have 10 days or more in with the obs prior to the obs going out for the first time since September, should the older birds be to strong on the wing of course the ybs could be moved to the spare section for a week or so each time I let the obs out . The reason why I am thinking celibate is that they fly better around home compared to natural pigeons so the older birds should not pull the ybs down , the little bit of celibate I have done and what I have read the birds fly well and do tend to go off more

 

anyone tried this kind of system before or have any advice to help with this rough idea

[andy Burgess]

good question , looking forward to Owen,s reply on this one

[kirky]

young cocks with obs wont work old cocks will run ybs ragged in the loft, would have a problem when obs are flying out u said u can put them in another section but thay would have to go out some time.

[neila]

what about early jan bred ybs Kirky? to allow them time to mature prior to main loft flying late march time

What do you have in mind as the problem when the ob's are flying out? once the ybs have a little age on them the ybs could be trained by may so I do not understand the problem other than when they are first weaned for a couple of weeks? , I prefer the ybs to be in the air early rather than later anyway

thanks for you views so far ,open to any views or advice

[kirky]

what about early jan bred ybs Kirky? to allow them time to mature prior to main loft flying late march time

What do you have in mind as the problem when the ob's are flying out? once the ybs have a little age on them the ybs could be trained by may so I do not understand the problem other than when they are first weaned for a couple of weeks? , I prefer the ybs to be in the air early rather than later anyway

thanks for you views so far ,open to any views or advice

if bred in jan thay are only 12 weeks old by march so not mature young cocks wont be spinning around at that age or defending a box or perch against old cocks, as i have said thay would be run ragged by old cocks trying to tread them, as for flying out old and young fly diferantly ybs range further and need to obs only range localy and when realy fit tend to spilt up and come back in ones and twos from diferant directions,not good for ybs flying with them,

[neila]

thanks Kirky

 

any other views on the idea from members that may have tried it

[tommy2]

Has any members raced both cocks and hens on the celibate system and their ybs to from the same sections cocks in one hens in the other both ybs and obs mixed

I was just wondering reason being is I have very limited time and wanted to try a new system ,early in the year I have about 90 mins with my birds in the morning as I arrive home after 730 pm so letting them out is limited time wise ,plus I wish to race both sexes so allowing 3 sets out is not easy in the time I have

 

I do have a small weaning pen to put the squeakers in, and I was thinking once the ybs were 30-35 days old(cocks and hens ring numbers and sex noted from ringing stage)I could split them into the adult sections cocks in with the old cocks and hens the same to where they would spend the rest of there life while racing this would be done late feb early march so the ybs have 10 days or more in with the obs prior to the obs going out for the first time since September, should the older birds be to strong on the wing of course the ybs could be moved to the spare section for a week or so each time I let the obs out . The reason why I am thinking celibate is that they fly better around home compared to natural pigeons so the older birds should not pull the ybs down , the little bit of celibate I have done and what I have read the birds fly well and do tend to go off more

 

anyone tried this kind of system before or have any advice to help with this rough idea

Neilia,to be honest the southern hemiphere boys fly pretty much what you suggest,but it would be easier,especially time factor wise,to leave all babies at 14 days old in hens sectionon floor in their nestpans,------then start working the cocks each morning starting 20 mins and extending,make sure you get cocks in before you go to work,then leave traps wide open all day,till you get back home ,-----as time goes by young birds will flit about,then flip and after a while will have learnt so much about their surroundings with help from the hens,very effective,if not to say superb,-----as young cocks show up,get them in with old cocks.making sure you have enough extra perches lower level.if you can leave breeding as late as possible so babies are safe from sparrowhawk till 3ed week of april when they start going out

[hawked again]

good question , looking forward to Owen,s reply on this one

 

Aye, and I'll bet it's an answer that works. Good on you Owen............in advance!

[neila]

Neilia,to be honest the southern hemiphere boys fly pretty much what you suggest,but it would be easier,especially time factor wise,to leave all babies at 14 days old in hens sectionon floor in their nestpans,------then start working the cocks each morning starting 20 mins and extending,make sure you get cocks in before you go to work,then leave traps wide open all day,till you get back home ,-----as time goes by young birds will flit about,then flip and after a while will have learnt so much about their surroundings with help from the hens,very effective,if not to say superb,-----as young cocks show up,get them in with old cocks.making sure you have enough extra perches lower level.if you can leave breeding as late as possible so babies are safe from sparrowhawk till 3ed week of april when they start going out

 

Hi Tommy

thank you the positive feed back ,

as you said time wise it would be a big plus point for me and really only any real hassle for a short few weeks when the young cocks are growing

 

Aye, and I'll bet it's an answer that works. Good on you Owen............in advance!

 

yes it would be good to know Owens thoughts on the topic

[tommy2]

Hi Tommy

thank you the positive feed back ,

as you said time wise it would be a big plus point for me and really only any real hassle for a short few weeks when the young cocks are growing

 

 

 

yes it would be good to know Owens thoughts on the topic

thankyou neila,OWEN will give good sound advice.but time is everything mate,backgarden working fanciers got their work cut out to compete against the household names who do not work and have 24/7 avalible,but specialise in 1 discipline,perhaps extreem distance and boy its good when you destroy the big names ,funny how they still get the writeup even thou you have kicked their ass,consistancy is why,and us small boys are up against it,

[neila]

yes Tommy its a real pain with the shift work just to keep to a routine with having the birds out ,feeding etc

[geordie1234]

Owen is the best guy to answer this question

[peter pandy]

I too have only 2 sections and flew a form of celibate this year on roundabout. I paired up end of February and all the hens were removed at 12 day young and put into their own section with V perches. The youngsters were removed when 20-25 days and all put into the hen section. Roundabout was then started with the hens out first and the cocks chased through into the hens section. After 1 hour the hens were brought in and went into the cock section where they were fed. In your position as we are now into April you can put the cocks out in the evening and put the hens back through to their own section where they will feed the youngsters. When the young want to go out they can either go with the cocks or hens as they wont exercise until they are ready but once they start to go out then keep them with the hens. This system will bring rewards but will need tweeking to suit your circumstances.

[neila]

thanks Peter

can i ask why did you keep the ybs with the hens ? and not keep the young cocks with the old cocks once they were flying and a little bit more mature

[peter pandy]

No, I keep all the young birds and old hens together till I am ready to repair and come off roundabout for a round of latebreds in July. What you will observe is the youngsters when confident on the wing will separate from the old hens when exercising and take off themselves.

[neila]

that's a good tip thanks as I was worried about the ybs roaming

[Guest IB]

I only tried celibate once, in 2012. I had plenty room, with Hens, Cocks and YBs in 3 separate sections, but it was the 'time factor' which I found impossible to manage, as I wanted them out in 3 separate groups. The hens would exercise no bother (2 hours at a time) the cocks just wouldn't go out, and I couldn't get the YBs out. I'd always raced natural and was used to popping in and out of the loft at will, I couldn't do that as the OBs came down onto the floor wanting into the other OB end. My youngsters were wild thanks to lack of time spent with them. It was not a happy or content loft of pigeons, and I did not enjoy the system. By the end of that season I'd lost most of them racing.

[neila]

I only tried celibate once, in 2012. I had plenty room, with Hens, Cocks and YBs in 3 separate sections, but it was the 'time factor' which I found impossible to manage, as I wanted them out in 3 separate groups. The hens would exercise no bother (2 hours at a time) the cocks just wouldn't go out, and I couldn't get the YBs out. I'd always raced natural and was used to popping in and out of the loft at will, I couldn't do that as the OBs came down onto the floor wanting into the other OB end. My youngsters were wild thanks to lack of time spent with them. It was not a happy or content loft of pigeons, and I did not enjoy the system. By the end of that season I'd lost most of them racing.

 

thanks Ib I found in the little time i tried the system the cocks flew very well not non stop but up and down in small groups , I understand the time problem you mentioned which is why I posted the topic regardind ybs being split into the ol bird teams

thanks

neil

[neila]

any other views or Advice more than welcome even if not positive

[Guest Owen]

I have found the celibate system the simplest way to win pigeon races. I don't race hens for basically two reasons. The cocks win plenty so there is no need to put the hens on the road and I am not prepared to spend the time it would take to exercise and train them separately. I just give each cock a box and shut any spare boxes so that the cocks know that they must look after the box they have or they could lose it. My cocks are never paired so they are fit and ready from the first race onwards.

My youngsters are separated from early in the season and flown on the sliding door method all through the season and never paired. I select the young hens on the basis of their young bird performances and as each year goes by the quality of my hens gets better and my youngster mature earlier as each year goes by.

My corn bill is about 1/3 of the cost of most people's and I never use medication with the exception of vaccine. I test my birds with my microscope to look for cocci, canker and worms regularly. I have the occasional case of hair worm at very low levels but I don't seem to find anything else. I put this down to the fact that my birds are always very fit and healthy so don't become sick. It is years since I have seen a case of respiratory problems.

To be honest I would not dream of flying any other way.

[neila]

Hi Owen

 

thank you for your reply . would you consider early bred young cocks being allowed to join your old bird cock team once they have shown they are mature to be trained with the ob team in say late march

[Guest Owen]

neila

it is not something I have tried. To be honest I have quite a big team of cocks which includes 12 2013 bred birds. These younger birds will be expected to show me something this coming year because I will not have room for them all and there will be another group of youngsters at the end of the year.

I never leave the young birds untrained after they are 12 weeks old. I think it is important not to leave youngsters untrained because they get into the habit of ranging for miles with other people's birds. The last thing I want from my birds is to be in the habit of charging around the countryside in company with other people's birds. I need them to leave the training crate and make a bee line for home taking the shortest route. At one time I used to think it was good for the youngsters to become educated about the home area and to spend hours on end flying for miles and becoming fit into the bargain. Those were the days when I couldn't win a bladder. I had fit pigeons and no doubt they were well educated but they couldn't do what I kept them for. Win races. My routine is to teach my birds to win races by training them from an early age and rewarding them for trapping.

[neila]

hi Owen

do you think that early bred ybs could work on the system if kept with the older team of the same sex?

[Guest Owen]

neila

I have never tried mixing old and young birds so I can't say that I know my facts on this idea. On the other hand providing you keep the sexes apart I see no reason why it shouldn't work. I mix yearling and older cocks in the same loft every year and that works well.

Owen

[neila]

thanks for your advice Owen