Probiotics

[Tony C]

does chlorine in tap water kill off all these so called 'good bugs' rendering it useless?

[Wiley]

Supposedly

[eastcoaster]

Just read a book by a vet fancier who said probiotics are useless but in his summary at the end he gives probiotic sat and Sunday !!! . I use it but no got a clue if it works but I do fill water bucket the night before.

[greenlands]

Apparently the water companies don't use chlorine any more ?

If whatever they do use kills the good bacteria in the probiotics,does it also kill the good bugs in your stomach,I don't think so ?

[Guest Owen]

The whole purpose of adding chemicals to the drinking water is to sterilise it which means that all the bugs have to be killed off. There is no question that the chemicals can tell the difference between good and bad bugs so the water becomes sterile and the chemicals remain in the water. Obviously these chemicals will kill everything they come into contact with which includes the contents of your pigeon's gut. That's the bad news. The good news is that after time the chemicals will evaporate leaving the water clean and harmless. So to be safe you can always allow the tap water to stand before you use it. The test of the health of water is to leave it stand to see if algae forms. If algae forms the water will be fine. I know people who have collected water from water sources in this area thinking that it will be natural and uncontaminated without realising that pigeons need water that is either neutral of slightly alkaline. The result has been that the acidic water has been extremely bad for the birds.

[greenlands]

Owen,what's your opinion on the different types of water in different areas of the Country,some areas obviously very hard water and such as my area very soft water,one running on limestone and the other granite.?

Also what's their different effect on antibiotic/treatments we use ?

Do you think one has an advantage over the other ?

 

Lindsay

[jimmy_bulger]

Owen,what's your opinion on the different types of water in different areas of the Country,some areas obviously very hard water and such as my area very soft water,one running on limestone and the other granite.?

Also what's their different effect on antibiotic/treatments we use ?

Do you think one has an advantage over the other ?

Lindsay

 

try flight path

[MIK]

The whole purpose of adding chemicals to the drinking water is to sterilise it which means that all the bugs have to be killed off. There is no question that the chemicals can tell the difference between good and bad bugs so the water becomes sterile and the chemicals remain in the water. Obviously these chemicals will kill everything they come into contact with which includes the contents of your pigeon's gut. That's the bad news. The good news is that after time the chemicals will evaporate leaving the water clean and harmless. So to be safe you can always allow the tap water to stand before you use it. The test of the health of water is to leave it stand to see if algae forms. If algae forms the water will be fine. I know people who have collected water from water sources in this area thinking that it will be natural and uncontaminated without realising that pigeons need water that is either neutral of slightly alkaline. The result has been that the acidic water has been extremely bad for the birds.

 

 

owen, if acidic water is "extremely" bad for our birds ...why do alot of fanciers use ACV and equivalent to upset the Ph of the gut so our common bugs dont settle??

 

Mick

[Guest IB]

It's quite a few years since I posted on chloramination replacing chlorination in Britain's drinking water supply, so I did a web search to find reliable, up-to-date information on it. Scottish Water use it, but I don't know in what areas.

 

Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia and unlike chlorine, it does NOT dissipate from drinking water. According to this source, in humans, stomach acid neutralises it; but in animal studies (rats) it does reach the gut. The studies were mainly on cell death / cancer causing qualities and say nothing about gut friendly bacteria. But the chemical isn't stable and changes composition depending on ph. As far as I know, different parts of the gut have different ph's.

 

http://www.chloramine.org/articles_pdf/Chemicals_in_Drinking_Water_Chloramines.pdf

[greenlands]

There are talks in my area as whether to add Fluoride to the water over the coming months.

 

Correct Ian in what you say.

[Guest Owen]

greenlands

I believe that pigeons function best on an alkaline water because they need strong bones and feathers. Pigeons need vitamin "D" as an important part of their daily intake. They manufacture this vitamin on their feathers by combining the oil from the oil gland, sunlight and calcium which they get from their food and water. These days grain is produced by using chemical fertilizers based on sulphate of ammonia which makes the soil acidic. Years ago fertility was maintained by dressing the soil with Dung, Basic Slag and Lime which produced a ph of about 7. The crops grown in these conditions were far healthier because they were not forced and there was a good supply of calcium in the food that the birds ate. Also the diet of racing pigeons in those days was dominated by legumes which are naturally richer in calcium the corn. Modern people do not use legumes nearly as much in the birds' diet due to reasons I will not go into here. These days due to the lower calcium levels in the food we have to be more concerned about ensuring that the birds get their requirements of calcium to achieve top condition. We have to make sure that we supply fresh grit and where possible what you refer to as hard water containing a richer supply of minerals.

In regard to your point about antibiotics. I never use them at all these days. Respiratory problems ended when I sorted out the ventilation in my lofts and I see no good reason to use them for anything else. Antibiotics do not help with viruses so they are a waste of time to try to use them for that. If you have a case of salmonella they are very unlikely to work because salmonella mutates and the only effective treatment requires a sensitivity test to identify which antibiotic actually works. If you try to treat salmonella with say Baytril you are very likely to do serious damage to your birds because Baytril may not be the right medication at that time. Probably the worst two things that you can do is to use a weak Baytril from abroad or to use a short dose which does not kill all the microbes present. Either way you will end up with bacteria that will have developed immunity to antibiotics. I suppose you could argue that what you do is your business but if you decide to put you birds with their super bugs into crates with mine you will have passed your folly and irresponsibility on to mine.

[greenlands]

Thank you for your answer Owen,more than I asked for but has I asked,have you an opinion on:

 

very hard water and such as my area very soft water,one running on limestone and the other granite.?

Also what's their different effect on antibiotic/treatments we use ?

Do you think one has an advantage over the other ?

 

PS. Never used Baytril before and don't expect to in the near future.

 

Lindsay

[philg50]

To evaporate the chlorine fill a couple of watering cans the night before and fill up their drinkers next day ,I also use from time to time in water Potasium Permagnate ,I think if you see signs of any bird being of, it saves the infection spreading just enough permagnate to tinge water pale purple ,just my thoughts.