Gutted

[Guest chad3646]

Well i'm a bit late with this feedback but my doos have not looked back since putting the vaccinated late breds in beside them. I took these pics on Monday of this week.

The late bred birds are pictured on the loft floor with the others in the veranda of the loft. The late breds have been out in the garden and had a wee flutter from loft to loft, all are looking very well within themselves. Cheers John.

 

 

birds are looking well john,its along while fae a heard that word VERANDA

[JohnQuinn]

Am as auld in the heed as yer sel Jimmy, still describe things as costin 30 bob etc, just ignore the state o the garden, i'll get tae it wan day

[Guest chad3646]

Am as auld in the heed as yer sel Jimmy, still describe things as costin 30 bob etc, just ignore the state o the garden, i'll get tae it wan day

 

 

i never noticed it but now u mention, a thought i was watching HEARTBEAT greengrasses garden

 

:emoticon-0140-rofl:

[JohnQuinn]

i never noticed it but now u mention, a thought i was watching HEARTBEAT greengrasses garden

 

:emoticon-0140-rofl:

 

Am no that familiar way that program but am sure greengrass would even be embarrassed way ma garden, ave tried bribery and all sorts tae get ma bruv intae it but he's no bitin, YET!! Al need tae raise it fae 15 bob tae 25 bob i think.

[Guest chad3646]

Am no that familiar way that program but am sure greengrass would even be embarrassed way ma garden, ave tried bribery and all sorts tae get ma bruv intae it but he's no bitin, YET!! Al need tae raise it fae 15 bob tae 25 bob i think.

 

 

cemetary will be able to tell you about it he watches all that s..te lol

[walterboswell59]

Well i'm a bit late with this feedback but my doos have not looked back since putting the vaccinated late breds in beside them. I took these pics on Monday of this week.

The late bred birds are pictured on the loft floor with the others in the veranda of the loft. The late breds have been out in the garden and had a wee flutter from loft to loft, all are looking very well within themselves. Cheers John.

bet you jagged them with a bottle that had been opened john

[walterboswell59]

should have explained better to johns post and i may be wrong because i dont pretend i fully understand myself whats going on with the vaccine situ but i tried the same thing when i jagged with a bottle that had been opened and kept in the fridge for 3 weeks then used it the birds were ok no reaction but when i jagged with a new unopened bottle the birds react to it this leeds me to think that the air had made the opened bottle inactive and thats why they dont react to it in any way because its not kick starting the parramixo antibodies in the birds allso there is no cross contamintion when your birds are not mixing with other peoples birds and the vaccine manufacturers are telling us it must be used when opened like i said i dont fully understand what is going on with the vaccine but i will keep trying different things till i learn more about it and i will get to the bottom of it

[peter pandy]

Think you are clutching at straws Walter with the theory of air entering a used vaccine bottle. Have we not all watched a programme on telly where mass vaccination takes place and the Doctors/Nurses use the same needle from the same bottle to jag everyone ! no cross contamination there and just to add a little extra I have watched cattle being jagged for T.B. from previously used large bottle by vets. Worst thing I did this year was jagging ALL my Y/B together instead of my usual couple at a time coming out the nest and I never throw half a bottle of vaccine away as I will use it the following year out of date or not..

[just ask me]

an opened bottle makes no difference at all you can jab as many as you want from the same loft with one needle its nearly impossible to spread anything that way

 

the bigger problem is storage of the product many people may buy these products on a weekend away at a show store them in there bag in conditions that there not to be kept in for a weekend then come home and dont keep at the temp required

 

or else there vaccinating process leaves a lot to be desired

 

but i wouldnt use a out of date product apart from it been against union rules these sorts of practises will have us back paying the vet the fortune for getting our birds jabbed

[Guest IB]

Can’t see how air would get into the bottle, I believe the rubber stopper allows the needle through but maintains an airtight seal around it, and the rubber stopper then reseals when the needle is withdrawn. I’ve used a gun too, and the part that pierces the rubber stopper is a lot wider than a needle, but the same resealing process seems to take place when the bottle is removed.

 

I’m sure the needle has to be changed every 20 birds, but what you do with it between birds may have a bearing on whether infection or contamination is passed between birds. Nobilis provide a needle sterilisation kit with their vaccine. It’s a small plastic cup, a sponge and a bottle of surgical spirits. You pour a little surgical spirit in the cup then push the sponge into the cup. The sponge soaks up the surgical spirit. You are advised first to sterilise the bottle top before opening, rubbing the top into the sponge. You then sterilise the needle by pushing it into the sponge before pushing it through the stopper and loading up with 1ml of vaccine, enough to do 5 birds. After you jag the first bird, you again sterilise the needle by pushing it into the sponge before jagging the 2nd bird and so on.

 

While I’ve never used out-of-date vaccine (never would) I have resealed the tin foil over the rubber stopper, first sterilising the bottle stopper then the bottle top before popping the bottle back in the fridge for the few months between the OBs and doing the YBs. I’ve practiced that for years and never had any bother, but I’ll take advice on what causes the vaccine to deteriorate after the bottle is open.

[just ask me]

ian im a bit lost do you put you needle for injecting straight into the bottle

[yeboah]

Can’t see how air would get into the bottle, I believe the rubber stopper allows the needle through but maintains an airtight seal around it, and the rubber stopper then reseals when the needle is withdrawn. I’ve used a gun too, and the part that pierces the rubber stopper is a lot wider than a needle, but the same resealing process seems to take place when the bottle is removed.

 

I’m sure the needle has to be changed every 20 birds, but what you do with it between birds may have a bearing on whether infection or contamination is passed between birds. Nobilis provide a needle sterilisation kit with their vaccine. It’s a small plastic cup, a sponge and a bottle of surgical spirits. You pour a little surgical spirit in the cup then push the sponge into the cup. The sponge soaks up the surgical spirit. You are advised first to sterilise the bottle top before opening, rubbing the top into the sponge. You then sterilise the needle by pushing it into the sponge before pushing it through the stopper and loading up with 1ml of vaccine, enough to do 5 birds. After you jag the first bird, you again sterilise the needle by pushing it into the sponge before jagging the 2nd bird and so on.

 

While I’ve never used out-of-date vaccine (never would) I have resealed the tin foil over the rubber stopper, first sterilising the bottle stopper then the bottle top before popping the bottle back in the fridge for the few months between the OBs and doing the YBs. I’ve practiced that for years and never had any bother, but I’ll take advice on what causes the vaccine to deteriorate after the bottle is open.

Correct ,When using a proper vaccination gun the bottle fits on top into the factory fitted needle ,you change the front needle every 25 birds max every thing you state regarding sterilising is spot on . But how many follow this procedure ?

The gun is easy sterilised the very good quality one costs £100

[billt]

Nobilis clearly states, Once broached use immediately, I will only keep it until the next day in case any have an oily area on them where it has clearly leaked and I would re-do them but that's all, I do wonder with the lads that say they vaccinate youngsters prior to leaving the nest, they've either got their breeding spot on or they are kidding themselves, we must be doing something wrong as by now we should have eradicated PMV

[sammy]

go to a vets and get yir dog vaccinated they take it out the fridge use it then put it back and they do this until the bottle is finished ,but ,they tell us not to do it my a----

[just ask me]

go to a vets and get yir dog vaccinated they take it out the fridge use it then put it back and they do this until the bottle is finished ,but ,they tell us not to do it my a----

 

 

the reason is why they dont trust fanciers to store the vaccine properly storage is everything with vaccines

[sammy]

the reason is why they dont trust fanciers to store the vaccine properly storage is everything with vaccines

learned to do that when we started to vaccinate in 82/83 and been doing it every year since to expensive to throw away

[billt]

go to a vets and get yir dog vaccinated they take it out the fridge use it then put it back and they do this until the bottle is finished ,but ,they tell us not to do it my a----

 

I don't think so, We have been pro.dog breeders for years and all dog vaccines are a one off dose

[billt]

learned to do that when we started to vaccinate in 82/83 and been doing it every year since to expensive to throw away

 

I've been vaccinating from the beginning myself and if you don't follow manufacturers instructions we will be doing it for the next 30yrs.

[Guest chad3646]

I don't think so, We have been pro.dog breeders for years and all dog vaccines are a one off dose

 

 

correct, but i did not want to jump in

[JohnQuinn]

15 years in nursing taught me more about storage of medicines than anyone on the forum can tell me. Arrogant??? Definitely NOT its just a fact.

[Guest IB]

ian im a bit lost do you put you needle for injecting straight into the bottle

 

If using a syringe, the advice is to use one needle to load the syringe from the bottle; and use a separate one to jag the birds. I think it is a bit cumbersome to do that, and I use one needle(per 20 birds)which is always sterilised before it either goes into the next bird, or goes into the bottle for a reload. The other thing about this 'advice' is that Colombovac only give you one needle with each 50-bird pack, so you don't have enough needles to follow their previous 'advice' - you would need a minimum of 3 needles with a 50-bird pack to do that = 1 for bottle, 1 for first 25 birds, and 1 for last 25 birds - which finishes that bottle.

 

If using a gun, the gun is sterilised twice - before and after use. The one I had I sterilised by immersion in boiling water, then allowed it to dry and cool before attaching the bottle of vaccine. You remove the tinfoil cover from the top of the bottle, turn it upside down and 'spear' it onto the top part of the gun, which pierces the rubber stopper. The gun measures the dose and the only reload needed is when the bottle is empty. Again, sterilise the needle before jagging each bird, and change needles every 25 birds.

[JohnQuinn]

If using a syringe, the advice is to use one needle to load the syringe from the bottle; and use a separate one to jag the birds. I think it is a bit cumbersome to do that, and I use one needle(per 20 birds)which is always sterilised before it either goes into the next bird, or goes into the bottle for a reload. The other thing about this 'advice' is that Colombovac only give you one needle with each 50-bird pack, so you don't have enough needles to follow their previous 'advice' - you would need a minimum of 3 needles with a 50-bird pack to do that = 1 for bottle, 1 for first 25 birds, and 1 for last 25 birds - which finishes that bottle.

 

If using a gun, the gun is sterilised twice - before and after use. The one I had I sterilised by immersion in boiling water, then allowed it to dry and cool before attaching the bottle of vaccine. You remove the tinfoil cover from the top of the bottle, turn it upside down and 'spear' it onto the top part of the gun, which pierces the rubber stopper. The gun measures the dose and the only reload needed is when the bottle is empty. Again, sterilise the needle before jagging each bird, and change needles every 25 birds.

 

You get more than one needle with the 100 dose bottle Ian, it is my practice to sterilise and keep needles/syringes after use.

The manufacturers instructions are correct, only ONE needle should pierce the rubber seal and remain there until all birds needing vaccinated are done. (cumbersome or not) My advice is to soak the sponge with the surgical spirit, every syringe does 5 birds, when you have done 5 put the injection needle into the sponge and separate it from the syringe, then draw another syringe full through the needle in the bottle, remove the syringe and connect the injection needle from the sponge back onto the syringe and carry on vaccinating with that needle. Your needle will be sterile from being put into the sponge after every 5 birds are vaccinated.

If you repeatedly pierce the rubber seal between filling your syringe you are in danger of leaving a hole in the rubber which would ruin all of the vaccine in the bottle. I understand you only keep a small team of birds but others on here have VERY large teams and this is when complications can arise from repeatedly breaching the rubber cap.

Also, vaccination fluids are affected more by being exposed to High temperatures for long periods, less so when stored in something other than a fridge, a cool dark place for example will not harm the fluid in the least.

[walterboswell59]

Think you are clutching at straws Walter with the theory of air entering a used vaccine bottle. Have we not all watched a programme on telly where mass vaccination takes place and the Doctors/Nurses use the same needle from the same bottle to jag everyone ! no cross contamination there and just to add a little extra I have watched cattle being jagged for T.B. from previously used large bottle by vets. Worst thing I did this year was jagging ALL my Y/B together instead of my usual couple at a time coming out the nest and I never throw half a bottle of vaccine away as I will use it the following year out of date or not..

peter its there for all to see the manufacturers instrucktions are in the box with your vaccine cant understand why people are even arguing about this these are the people testing this stuff not the vet not the nurse next door not doctor van want yer money the people who make it say use contents when opened not can be put back in fridge f f k sake i give up

[Guest chad3646]

walter you have got some patience trying to get through to that lot

 

:emoticon-0140-rofl:

[JohnQuinn]

peter its there for all to see the manufacturers instrucktions are in the box with your vaccine cant understand why people are even arguing about this these are the people testing this stuff not the vet not the nurse next door not doctor van want yer money the people who make it say use contents when opened not can be put back in fridge f f k sake i give up

 

Am no wan for contradicting ye Watty, but the Manufacturers are the ones with most to gain!! Hence their instructions, that Can and Do, put uncertainty into fanciers heads !!

The medical reps who go to your Doctor/ Vet/Hospitals are well versed in selling their products in a fashion that generates most income for the Manufacturer they are employed by, if they don't they're soon out of work. Its the very same in all producers practices, whether it be Meds or fruit and Veg. Ambiguous descriptive selling pitches are their forte.

The government even knows it's going on and choose not to pull the reigns in, because they also benefit from every sale made, via taxes and generous funding donations from these same manufacturers.