JohnQuinn Posted September 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Why would liberating the north east of Scotland birds with Solway, Lanarkshire and Ayrshire give them a better chance of making it on the shift. Section G birds had next to no chance of homing on the day on Saturday and were shut out by rain on Sunday morning. There were only 16 birds timed north of the tay in section c on Saturday and most of them were timed in near darkness S/W wind would blow them up the road for the last 100mls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Just checked out the result and a Split Lib would need to be Sec's A,E,F & G up together and Sec's B,C & D together, in that order, to give the Sec G birds the best opportunity to make it home on the shift. Simples. treating all the sections with the same respect and giving all the birds a chance to make it on the same day would be a good start john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnQuinn Posted September 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 treating all the sections with the same respect and giving all the birds a chance to make it on the same day would be a good start john Somethings gotta give or we just keep getting treated with contempt, the choice is ours to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnQuinn Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 treating all the sections with the same respect and giving all the birds a chance to make it on the same day would be a good start john Hi John, Looking at it closer i notice only 2 birds from Sec D didn't get an Open position ( but still beat Sec E, G, A (bar 1 doo) & F, all other Open positions (bar Scott's outstanding doo) are taken up by Sec's B,C & D's birds. That tells us that these birds are experiencing a much different race than the birds in the other 4 sections.....Because when you look at the result from Derek's bird onwards, Sec's E,G,A & F are all mixed in together (in that order), though not surprisingly considering the conditions, the Sec F doos had it toughest in this particular race, but still !! all these section's winning birds are in the mix together, suggesting there may be some parity if they were released together, separately from the other 3 Sections. Remember this is as much, if not More, about getting more birds home than winning Open positions in the race, that imo can only be good for the doos and in the long term good for the sport, and reduced losses wouldn't do our image to outsiders any harm either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scousebilly Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Hi John, Looking at it closer i notice only 2 birds from Sec D didn't get an Open position ( but still beat Sec E, G, A (bar 1 doo) & F, all other Open positions (bar Scott's outstanding doo) are taken up by Sec's B,C & D's birds. That tells us that these birds are experiencing a much different race than the birds in the other 4 sections.....Because when you look at the result from Derek's bird onwards, Sec's E,G,A & F are all mixed in together (in that order), though not surprisingly considering the conditions, the Sec F doos had it toughest in this particular race, but still !! all these section's winning birds are in the mix together, suggesting there may be some parity if they were released together, separately from the other 3 Sections. Remember this is as much, if not More, about getting more birds home than winning Open positions in the race, that imo can only be good for the doos and in the long term good for the sport, and reduced losses wouldn't do our image to outsiders any harm either. John section D first bird flying 249mls section E first bird 261mls and an hour difference, it doesint take a bird an hour to fly 12 mls in any direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 John section D first bird flying 249mls section E first bird 261mls and an hour difference, it doesint take a bird an hour to fly 12 mls in any direction You are showing real ignorance in how the nationals work.1ST SECT D Real distance 272 miles, 1ST SECT E Real distance 304 miles. Measure from Leicester to Ayton (BREAKING POINT) then to each winning loft. Then take into consideration a bird flying into the wind, fatigue and flying alone without drag, I know what bird I would want in my racing team.This is a more accurate measurement and explains everything. Last year, the first bird timed in the west ( Mr Mrs Elliot )was timed 2 and half hours after the Ayton pigeon. This year it is 2 hours 15 minutes into a n.w wind flying 26 miles further than Elliots. 1st section E is flying 80 miles from Ayton , alone and into a head wind, with failing light, it took 2 hours 15 minutes. Now, back to my theory of breaking points and fatigue factors etc making things fairer.Even with these put in place it still would favour the drag BUT, IT WOULD BE FAIRER THAN WHAT WE VE GOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjamie Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 THE GUY THATS WON THE YBN 2 YEAR IN A ROW KNOWS WERE THE ADVANTAGE LIES ITS SHOOTY IN COMPARED TO US GUYS IN THE WEST THATS WHY HE HAS MOVED THERE FROM THE WEST THE GUY DONE HIS HOMEWORK AND GOT FULL MARKS THE BIRDS LIKE BIG DELS AND THE OTHER BIRDS FROM THE WEST AND OTHER PLACES ARE EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS THE WINNING BIRDS THEY WERE VERY GAME ON GETTING HOME IN THAT DARKNESS THATS THE KIND OF BIRDS I WOULD BE WANTING IN MY LOFT FIGHTERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 THE GUY THATS WON THE YBN 2 YEAR IN A ROW KNOWS WERE THE ADVANTAGE LIES ITS SHOOTY IN COMPARED TO US GUYS IN THE WEST THATS WHY HE HAS MOVED THERE FROM THE WEST THE GUY DONE HIS HOMEWORK AND GOT FULL MARKS THE BIRDS LIKE BIG DELS AND THE OTHER BIRDS FROM THE WEST AND OTHER PLACES ARE EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS THE WINNING BIRDS THEY WERE VERY GAME ON GETTING HOME IN THAT DARKNESS THATS THE KIND OF BIRDS I WOULD BE WANTING IN MY LOFT FIGHTERS well said jamie the race tells its own story imo m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whats it called Cumbernauld Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 You are showing real ignorance in how the nationals work.1ST SECT D Real distance 272 miles, 1ST SECT E Real distance 304 miles. Measure from Leicester to Ayton (BREAKING POINT) then to each winning loft. Then take into consideration a bird flying into the wind, fatigue and flying alone without drag, I know what bird I would want in my racing team.This is a more accurate measurement and explains everything. Last year, the first bird timed in the west ( Mr Mrs Elliot )was timed 2 and half hours after the Ayton pigeon. This year it is 2 hours 15 minutes into a n.w wind flying 26 miles further than Elliots. 1st section E is flying 80 miles from Ayton , alone and into a head wind, with failing light, it took 2 hours 15 minutes. Now, back to my theory of breaking points and fatigue factors etc making things fairer.Even with these put in place it still would favour the drag BUT, IT WOULD BE FAIRER THAN WHAT WE VE GOT. Well said that man, such changes are long over due Darkness indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaz Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 John section D first bird flying 249mls section E first bird 261mls and an hour difference, it doesint take a bird an hour to fly 12 mls in any direction we get 15 mile from ayton in most nationals.if we put up 40 birds trainning from their we would be lucky to see them within an hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 This disadvantage is most prevalent in the yb nat but the same rule applies to most national races, location, location, location . Watch the 2 BILLYS tear the azz out the east section in the inland races next year The advantage changes slightly the further ye go, then the shorter fliers have the penalty kick. My statements are factual and based on years of being involved in national racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 get all the scottish birds back down the old route WEST and have the yb nat from cheltenham much more fairer line but wouldna suit the ayton doos probably move the olr to the west Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 get all the scottish birds back down the old route WEST and have the yb nat from cheltenham much more fairer line but wouldna suit the ayton doos probably move the olr to the west Crazy statement Peter, Cheltenham in a s.west wind , Ayton same result as always. Remember Stuart Roberts, he won 5 out of 7 yb nats, including Cheltenham and he couldn't buy a ticket before he moved there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie1234 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Yes Billy Bilsland is in a good position but so is the guys round about him and they are not dominating the race the same .... so billy isnt just doing well becuase he is in a gd position he is flying well aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjamie Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 GEORGE BILLY MOVED THERE TO PROVE A POINT WIN A NATIONAL AND HE HAS WON 2 IN A ROW BILLY IS A TOP CLASS GUY AND FANCIER HE WAS GOOD EVEN THROUGH THIS WAY HE MOVED BECAUSE HE WANTED TO WIN THE BIG RACES AND THATS WHAT HE IS DOING AND BEST OF LUCK TO HIM NEXT YEAR THE WAY HE GETS HIS BIRDS RACING HE COULD GET THREE YBN IN A ROW AS I STATED GEORGE THE GUY DONE HIS HOMEWORK HE KNEW WERE HE WANTED TO FLY BIRDS FROM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie1234 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 GEORGE BILLY MOVED THERE TO PROVE A POINT WIN A NATIONAL AND HE HAS WON 2 IN A ROW BILLY IS A TOP CLASS GUY AND FANCIER HE WAS GOOD EVEN THROUGH THIS WAY HE MOVED BECAUSE HE WANTED TO WIN THE BIG RACES AND THATS WHAT HE IS DOING AND BEST OF LUCK TO HIM NEXT YEAR THE WAY HE GETS HIS BIRDS RACING HE COULD GET THREE YBN IN A ROW AS I STATED GEORGE THE GUY DONE HIS HOMEWORK HE KNEW WERE HE WANTED TO FLY BIRDS FROM Did you here that from him or is it the usual here say? If you have been to his house you will see why he has moved there it's a cracking part of the country besides the point he has dominated it not just won it so what about the other guys in that area are they no in as good as position as billy? Ofcoarse its the best place for a yb nat win but what im saying is Billy is doing more than just win it? Too many people speaking for Billy people forget Billy lives there and flies his doos in a club with other fanciers from that area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Did you here that from him or is it the usual here say? If you have been to his house you will see why he has moved there it's a cracking part of the country besides the point he has dominated it not just won it so what about the other guys in that area are they no in as good as position as billy? Ofcoarse its the best place for a yb nat win but what im saying is Billy is doing more than just win it? Too many people speaking for Billy people forget Billy lives there and flies his doos in a club with other fanciers from that area expletive remove George, look at guys sending 3 doos getting them all in top 60 open. Tell me the good fliers in his club, Andrew Lees then????A young lad aged 13, a few years back, decided to send to the yb nat from down there.He had all his doos in the top 100 open,ALL HIS DOOS. Billy is a good fancier, yes, BUT!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie1234 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 expletive remove George, look at guys sending 3 doos getting them all in top 60 open. Tell me the good fliers in his club, Andrew Lees then????A young lad aged 13, a few years back, decided to send to the yb nat from down there.He had all his doos in the top 100 open,ALL HIS DOOS. Billy is a good fancier, yes, BUT!!!!!I'm not denying that at all it is a good position but Billy has to live there along with the people that other folk not billy are saying it's a canter this reflects on Billy as he was once from the west and people think he is saying these things when infact he isn't saying these words.. Put yourself in Billy's shoes I don't many would be saying the same things about the area if they lived there whether it be true or not My other point was he is not just winning it he is dominating this because he has flown well not because of where he stays if they were all flying aswell has billy he wouldn't be dominating it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkj Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Did you here that from him or is it the usual here say? If you have been to his house you will see why he has moved there it's a cracking part of the country besides the point he has dominated it not just won it so what about the other guys in that area are they no in as good as position as billy? Ofcoarse its the best place for a yb nat win but what im saying is Billy is doing more than just win it? Too many people speaking for Billy people forget Billy lives there and flies his doos in a club with other fanciers from that area as far i can see there are only 22 birds from the eye valley members. away not counting the the 2 billys birds. lets see how they do at rennes/nantes in the next 5 years because eye valley members dont clean up at these races.and remember its only a y/b/n. also inland nat are good 2 win at but there only inland races. its the channel what really count. well done the the 2 billys from the y/b/n. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjamie Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 BILLY MOVED THERE TO PROVE A POINT AND HE HAS DONE IT TWICE FIRST 5 LAST YEAR FIRST 6 THIS YEAR LOCATION GEORGE ASK HIM YOURSELF WHY HE MOVED THERE GEORGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 expletive remove George, look at guys sending 3 doos getting them all in top 60 open. Tell me the good fliers in his club, Andrew Lees then????A young lad aged 13, a few years back, decided to send to the yb nat from down there.He had all his doos in the top 100 open,ALL HIS DOOS. Billy is a good fancier, yes, BUT!!!!!must agree with dell george very different race from that area old and yb nationals no one is saying there not good doo men but the wind and terrain in britain gives them a great advantage imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie1234 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 BILLY MOVED THERE TO PROVE A POINT AND HE HAS DONE IT TWICE FIRST 5 LAST YEAR FIRST 6 THIS YEAR LOCATION GEORGE ASK HIM YOURSELF WHY HE MOVED THERE GEORGE I have been at his house Jamie so I know fine well Have you even asked him? Besides the point what I'm saying is people should stop saying billy has said this because he lives there with these ppl How would you feel if you had to go to a club on a Friday that everyone in another part of the country is basically slagging off? Youz are not getting the point!!!!!!!! stop speaking for Billy he has enough enemies fs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnQuinn Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 we get 15 mile from ayton in most nationals.if we put up 40 birds trainning from their we would be lucky to see them within an hour. Why is that Gary?? I am not that familiar with the geography in that corner of the country (but i am the results) so please excuse my ignorance. This is only a straight forward question i have no motive other than curiosity asking you this. atb John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I have been at his house Jamie so I know fine well Have you even asked him? Besides the point what I'm saying is people should stop saying billy has said this because he lives there with these ppl How would you feel if you had to go to a club on a Friday that everyone in another part of the country is basically slagging off? Youz are not getting the point!!!!!!!! stop speaking for Billy he has enough enemies fs Ive been at his house, ive been his friend for over 30 years and I know why he moved there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie1234 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Ive been at his house, ive been his friend for over 30 years and I know why he moved there.So you'll know how its making things harder saying all this on an open forum is then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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