Disgusting Letter Back From Defra

[Guest TAMMY_1]

A few weeks back there was a link on here to send a message to an Mp about raptors,do not know how many bothered but I sent one to him and got it pased about a bit but today I got a reply from Defra which I find abhorrent and I have highlighted one particular part which I find disgusting and I intend to reply,the line I mean is where it tells fanciers to have another source of food for the raptors by which I mean they want us to have a loft of lesser useful pigeons to feed to the hawks,I find that totally distasteful,below is a copy of the letter and the line highlighted is truly disgusting.

Dear Mr Garvie,

 

Raptors and racing pigeons

 

Thank you for your letter of 2 June about raptors and racing pigeons. I have been asked to reply.

 

Defra is aware that many pigeon fanciers throughout the UK believe that the increase in raptor numbers is leading to the loss of many of their birds and would like steps to be taken to reduce predation. Defra officials have recently met with representatives from the Royal Pigeon Racing Association and have visited a number of pigeon lofts to talk with fanciers and listen to their experiences.

 

However, across the range of research that has looked in to this issue, the general conclusion has been that there is an over-perception of the impact of raptors on racing pigeons.

 

In 2000, the Defra-led Raptor Working Group published a report (Shawyer, C., Clarke, R. & Dixon, N. 1999, ‘A study into the raptor predation of domestic pigeons Columba livia’) in which it assessed the predation of racing pigeons by raptors, and concluded that failure to return home or straying appeared to be the most significant underlying reason for losses whereas raptor attacks were estimated to account for about 7.5% of the loss of racing pigeon populations in the UK.

 

The report contained some recommendations for steps that pigeon fanciers could take to reduce of predation risk at or near lofts. These recommendations included:

 

• timing and varying release of birds to avoid the regular visits by raptors;

• use of physical, audible and visual deterrents on or near the loft;

• loft design and location;

• use of repellents and behavioural conditioning; and

• provision of alternative prey (additional lofts of less valuable birds).

 

The full conclusions and recommendations of the Raptor Working Group can be found at:

www.rspb.org.uk/Images/raptorworkinggroup_tcm9-188714.pdf

 

Pigeon fanciers across the UK are strongly encouraged to ensure they are aware of and follow these recommendations to help prevent predation of their birds by raptors.

 

A 2004 study funded by Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) and the Scottish Homing Union also suggested that there is no evidence that birds of prey cause major losses of racing pigeons at lofts or during races. The report, ‘Racing Pigeons - Impact of Raptor Predation’, concludes that much more could be done using deterrents and other novel techniques to reduce the small number of successful attacks that do take place. If Mr Jones wishes to obtain a copy, he will need to contact SNH; its website address is:

www.snh.gov.uk/index

 

The Scottish Executive also commissioned a review of an exploratory trial of two management practices designed to reduce sparrowhawk attacks on racing pigeons at pigeon lofts which was inconclusive in its findings due to difficulties in obtaining data. It is available online at:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/01/15105533/16

 

The evidence suggests that birds of prey account for a relatively small proportion of lost birds. To help reduce this number further there are a number of recommendations for pigeon fanciers to follow that will decrease the chances of predation. This research and the recommendations should provide an integrated solution to many of the problems faced by the racing pigeon enthusiast

 

Birds of prey, like all wild birds are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and we have no plans to reduce the protection afforded to them.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

 

Jill Tytherleigh

Defra - Customer Contact Un

 

[greenlands]

Another TIT.

[OLDYELLOW]

Letter from 'stock' nothing saying you can't reply to it and address the comments made keep it up Ask them can they provide housing costs and the additional set up of this loft and cost to feed these second rate birds surely if this is needed funding should be given to enable to keep these birds as out of pocket to keep these birds

[andy Burgess]

quoting reports from 12 and 8 years ago ,from 10 racing old birds left 5 have hawk damage ,thats 50% here or am i an exception ?? not to mention as many again lost racing ?/ were they just no good ??

[Poppy Loft]

Unbelievable! How dare they suggest we actually keep birds just to feed bops! Shocking.

[Guest IB]

I think this is the standard letter used to reply to racing pigeon / bird of prey complaints. I'm sure its been published in BHW before, the 'alternative prey' paragraph was in it and that was the first time I saw it. Feel the same as other replies that statistics from disputed findings continually trotted out which fly in the face of common sense. Straying & Failure to return to their lofts haven't been linked to BoP attacks. And how does a hawk tell which are the most valuable pigeons? The short answer is it can't.

[Delboy]

A bloody disgrace, a quick reply from your good self Tam.

[Guest IB]

Should have added that I think RPRA Press Officer is best for dealing with this one.

[Guest IB]

Removed certain posts likely to bring unwelcome attention on fanciers and the site.

[KMCK]

i think its a paper job for that

[THE FIFER]

also dont think the shu would agree on this bit with them, A 2004 study funded by Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) and the Scottish Homing Union also suggested that there is no evidence that birds of prey cause major losses of racing pigeons at lofts or during races

[Pompey Mick]

The suggestion that we supply the BOP with an alternative food source just serves to reinforce the fact that these raptor support groups realise that the current numbers level of BOP are only sustainable because they are feeding on a non-natural food source, domestic pigeons.

It is all very well to bring Raptors up to pre-war levels if their natural food source sustain the same growth, unfortunately we know and they MUST know that this is not the case. It is a case of Raptors above all with the Racing Pigeon Fraternity having to pick up the tab.

How does 'providing an alternative source of prey' help any fancier, what kind of 'suggestion' is this. Do these groups think that if we let out these 'sacrificial lambs to the slaughter' the BOPs will merrily feast and then when we let out our prize birds they will somehow leave them alone. The word 'ridiculous' doesn't even come into it.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

I received the same letter. This is my return email.

 

Dear Jill

 

Many thanks for your reply. I do feel however that it is rather statuatory in manner.

 

Raptors and racing pigeons

 

In 2000, the Defra-led Raptor Working Group published a report in which it assessed the predation of racing pigeons by raptors, and concluded that failure to return home or straying appeared to be the most significant underlying reason for losses whereas raptor attacks were estimated to account for about 7.5% of the loss of racing pigeon populations in the UK

 

 

The year 2000 was 12 years ago and therefor your statistics are dated and as such are completely mis-leading and of absolutely no value whatsoever. Further to this, the stated numbers of raptors within the population has not changed significantly in any report since these figures were arrived at, whereas in fact these raptor populations have become hugely successful and the groups recording the populations agree that the very nature of the birds are such that accurately recording their numbers is impossible.

 

Large sums of money are spent within the racing pigeon fraternity and losses due to failure to return home or straying have always been part of the nature of keeping and racing pigeons. Are you able to give reasons why nowadays these numbers have increased in line with our perceived increase in raptor activity amongst our injured returning birds and increased home attacks around and WITHIN the lofts?

 

The report contained some recommendations for steps that pigeon fanciers could take to reduce of predation risk at or near lofts. These recommendations included:

 

• timing and varying release of birds to avoid the regular visits by raptors;

 

• use of physical, audible and visual deterrents on or near the loft;

 

• loft design and location;

 

• use of repellents and behavioural conditioning;

 

 

Even the raptor groups agree that these methods are short lived and that the raptors become used to them.

 

 

and

 

• provision of alternative prey (additional lofts of less valuable birds).

 

 

I was under the mis-apprehension that cruelty to animals was frowned upon. You are recommending that I keep less valuable pigeons to sacrifice them to these killers prior to releasing my more valuable birds. I presume you have also informed the raptors that this is the advice you have given and that the naughty birds have now only to eat our less valuable pigeons. Frankly speaking I find this piece of advice contemptuous and unworthy of any government organisation. It sounds to me that the inmates are running the assylum.

 

 

The full conclusions and recommendations of the Raptor Working Group can be found at:

 

https://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/raptorworkinggroup_tcm9-188714.pdf

 

Pigeon fanciers across the UK are strongly encouraged to ensure they are aware of and follow these recommendations to help prevent predation of their birds by raptors.

 

 

Pigeon fanciers are aware of and attempting these methods, but let me assure you, they do not prevent predation, but only delay it for a short period of time.

 

 

A 2004 study funded by Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) and the Scottish Homing Union also suggested that there is no evidence that birds of prey cause major losses of racing pigeons at lofts or during races. The report, ‘Racing Pigeons - Impact of Raptor Predation’, concludes that much more could be done using deterrents and other novel techniques to reduce the small number of successful attacks that do take place. If Mr Jones wishes to obtain a copy, he will need to contact SNH. Its website address is:

 

http://www.snh.gov.uk/index

 

 

Similarly outdated to the earlier reference and also flawed in its finding which were not fully accepted by the SHU.

 

 

The Scottish Executive also commissioned a review of an exploratory trial of two management practices designed to reduce sparrowhawk attacks on racing pigeons at pigeon lofts which was inconclusive in its findings due to difficulties in obtaining data. It is available online at:

 

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/01/15105533/16

 

The evidence suggests that birds of prey account for a relatively small proportion of lost birds. To help reduce this number further there are a number of recommendations for pigeon fanciers to follow that will decrease the chances of predation. This research and the recommendations should provide an integrated solution to many of the problems faced by the racing pigeon enthusiast

 

 

I am afraid it depends on the manner in which you view these reports and evidence on which conclusions you will arrive. I am a newcomer to pigeon racing and as such have no historical knowledge, but ALL the experienced fanciers that I speak with concur that the devastation caused by an attack accounts for large numbers of birds failing to home and subsequently adding to the stray problem. These attacks also cause injury to birds to the extent that some of them fall prey to other predators due to these injuries caused in attempting to escape from the initial attack. The predator may only take 1 pigeon, but it can cause the loss of 100's of pigeons due to secondary means. The danger to racing pigeons caused by peregrines was a fundamental reason why the war office rewarded those who culled these birds during the war. At that time the members of governmeent were well aware of the dangers that peregrines caused and the Germans had falconers training their birds in an attempt to intercept our pigeons when returning with vital information.

 

From a beginner's point of view, I have seen an increase in raptor activity around my own loft in the short time that I have had racing pigeons.

 

 

Sparrowhawks and Peregrine Falcons, like all birds, are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and we have no plans to reduce the protection afforded to this or any other bird of prey.

 

 

To say that I am saddened by this conclusion is perhaps an understatement and I would have been far happier if it had been intimated that the information received from racing pigeon fanciers, gamekeepers, songbird enthusiasts, etc had not been discounted out of hand.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Subject: Response to your Query : - RefWOE000274952 - raptors and racing pigeons

 

Andrew Kyle

[lightning fast]

these studys were done 12 and 8 years ago and have no relevance to todays population, what other organisation would look at evedence that old....

None .The numbers have increased 10 folds since those studys

[Guest Owen]

Tammy 1

you have done a very good job there. I think you should send a copy of this letter to the RPRA so that they can use it to the best advantage. My own opinion is that the Raptor lovers want to rely on domestic pigeons and feral pigeons because they know full well that they will be under huge pressure if this sort of food is taken away. The Public will then see the damage their pets are really doing.

To me Raptor Lovers, Dog Fighters, Badger Baiters and the like are all from the same mould. Nasty cruel morons. They would rather exploit animals and birds for blood lust than behave in a civalised manner.

Before anyone points it out I know that Nature is cruel and flesh eaters must kill to live. However, it can not be right to artificially provide killing fields for the enjoyment of these depraved freaks.

I hope that one of these days we can take steps to remove all feral and stray pigeons from the environment and lock our birds up for many months of the year so that the Raptor must show their true colours and that the General Public can see what all this is really about.

[Pompey Mick]

Tammy 1

you have done a very good job there. I think you should send a copy of this letter to the RPRA so that they can use it to the best advantage. My own opinion is that the Raptor lovers want to rely on domestic pigeons and feral pigeons because they know full well that they will be under huge pressure if this sort of food is taken away. The Public will then see the damage their pets are really doing.

To me Raptor Lovers, Dog Fighters, Badger Baiters and the like are all from the same mould. Nasty cruel morons. They would rather exploit animals and birds for blood lust than behave in a civalised manner.

Before anyone points it out I know that Nature is cruel and flesh eaters must kill to live. However, it can not be right to artificially provide killing fields for the enjoyment of these depraved freaks.

I hope that one of these days we can take steps to remove all feral and stray pigeons from the environment and lock our birds up for many months of the year so that the Raptor must show their true colours and that the General Public can see what all this is really about.

I fully agree that the confinement of our birds during the Winter months (to force the Raptors to decimate all other forms of wild birdlife) is the only way that the raptor population will be controlled.

If you ask Joe Public what he thinks about Raptors eating pigeons he will probably say that its a good thing, having been brain-washed by local councils that all pigeons are no more than 'flying rats'. We will get a different opinion when the only birds left in the skies are raptors and all more popular song birds and finches are no more because of the massive artificial imbalance in the Predator/Prey ratio.

I am going to construct a mobile aviary so that I can allow all my birds an outside bath while they are confined throughout the Winter. I may just breed a few latebreds to give me a bit of interest in the Winter months.

[Guest Owen]

Pompey Mick

I have made myself new lofts over the last couple of years and they have sloping aviaries along the length of both of them. The birds usually spend most of their days lazing about in the fresh air. Bathing is easy and safe because the bath is placed in the aviary and I can walk off without a worry about Raptor attacks. My big problem is when I first let the old birds out in the Spring after a long lay off because the Sparrow Hawk is always ready to take advantage of their lack of fitness. Then if the birds take to the skies too quickly the Peregrine is there waiting to strike.

It is much the same with the youngsters because there is always a Raptor waiting to grab one. I am having a big problem right now because my youngsters will not take to the air and seem to want to hang around the loft. I dare not force them to get up because there are always Peregrines waiting for an easy meal. Most of the Fanciers in this area are in a similar situation.

I had the same thing last year but later when the youngsters finally got going I had a very good season.