Snfc Management

[Delboy]

Wot is it then fellas???? Is it the fog or the westerly position of Messac???There are two threads running on here where a push for change of direction and races from Ypres and Liege on one and weather and controlling on this yin!

 

If the weather was as bad as Rene says then it must have been info problems as NOBODY would want tae let them up in fog!!!!! What possible gratification/pressure could make ANY controller let them up?

 

Other views suggest that the birds had never been on the west side and that somehow got them in a muddle???

I canny believe this, no way, Solway raced west for years and sent to easterly nats( yearlings included)!

 

So I am gan tae plump wae fog and bad info/comms!

 

Was the fog very patchy? Must have been if some seen it and some didny but on the other hand how did it result in MASSIVE losses wae nae stragglers? Did they all hit a fog bank except the low percentage that got thru?

 

My heeds pickled and my loft is decimated :cry-blow:

 

2 months ago I thought I had a crackin team for the water! now I am pig seek and dinny know if I can be bothered way it!!!!!!

 

 

We dont know what happened, thats why we are discussing the possibilities .

[Guest rene]

rene you are retracting your original statement as you said it was thick fog throughout the channel then you agree with our contact ray osbourne that you could see 20mls and it was clear along the french coast right up through cherbourg peninsula so if that is not retracting I dont know what is?

 

 

NO im not retracting my statement simply sayin it how i should of said it in the 1st place yes the french coast was clear from Cherbourg DOWN TOWARDS GUERNSEY i can only see as far as ALDERNY which is 20 miles i cant see into the channel i never surggested i could i was goin from the weather man pigeonman123 is on line and waiting to reply to everyones comments but cant get to reply on site for some reason he is PAUL OSBOURN from Alderney not RAY as you call him he is pissed off with the members as to the weather forcast

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Ye know the *expletive removed* worst thing about all this, fk all will happen to prevent it happening again.People will come to accept this and the national will crumble.Everyone is always on the defensive instead of trying to get to the bottom of the problems. The `us and them' syndrome strikes again instead of everyone putting their heads together to sort it.WE ARE THE SNFC, THE MEMBERS AND THE COMMITTEE, SO LETS WORK TOGETHER.Nobody is pointing the finger here Peter, the race controllers job is a thankless one and im sure everyone would agree with that, so lets get things sorted.

Agree Derek not enough members and doos in Scotland like the old days to turn a blind eye and carry on as if nothing had happened,

 

Some thing has to change,jmo

[eastcoaster]

If as reported it was fog on the channel how did the first dozen birds get through doing what is a good velocity for the gold cup

 

2011 2010

 

 

1st 1195 1237

1193 1203

1191 1200

1190 1186

1173 1177

1162 1164

1130 1158

1110 1156

1094 1141

1085 1135

 

maybe the weather was`nt great but if the first doo`s made good time then they can`t have hit fog !

just maybe there is something else caused this ? who knows ,

1013

[eastcoaster]

If as reported it was fog on the channel how did the first dozen birds get through doing what is a good velocity for the gold cup

 

2011 2010

 

 

1st 1195 1237

1193 1203

1191 1200

1190 1186

1173 1177

1162 1164

1130 1158

1110 1156

1094 1141

1085 1135

 

maybe the weather was`nt great but if the first doo`s made good time then they can`t have hit fog !

just maybe there is something else caused this ? who knows ,

1013

hope you understand it it`s no like that when i sent it

[dal2]

Agree Derek not enough members and doos in Scotland like the old days to turn a blind eye and carry on as if nothing had happened,

 

Some thing has to change,jmo

 

What can change Gareth? Race line? Wots yer ideas for change?

Would you support a combine situation for one inland nat then a later Gold cup?

What about a Clermont/Ypres before the Gold Cup? a return to the old days?

What about a dead centre race point for Gold Cup?

 

Could the Weather info be better collated by a scientific, unattached, profesional? What would this cost? Wouyld they put their heads on the line with sole control of libs?

How do we gather weather info at the present? Can it be improved?

 

Loads of questions and variables!!!!

[Guest bigda]

has there been any doos reported as yet, to see what side of the country they headed, has there been any pigeons washed up at the coast. 1,000 birds, and all the best birds too, thats brutal the returns, there are loads of powerstations along the french coast i think there (4) of them, and wires, and pylons the lot.

[tyson]

I appologise for calling paul ray once again my appoligies peter

[tyson]

too many races and not enough members and birds for all these races get back to the four races from france

[OLDYELLOW]

too many races and not enough members and birds for all these races get back to the four races from france

 

think there's something in that and having them near back to back reduces birds

[frank-123]

1. get a professional weather forecast team to supply us with up to date weather forecast on call 24 hours a day

 

put our faith in the guys who take the job on of race controller and back them with no expense spared to do the job correctly

send them on a course at the met office make contacts with the people who can help us get our pigeons home

 

go for the line of flight of the shortest crossing of the english channel of dover to calais send the race control team over to look at the available good sites on that route

 

two changes i would like to see for next season

[Guest rene]

I appologise for calling paul ray once again my appoligies peter

 

 

 

no worries we all get names wrong mate from time to time paul has joined the site to try and help clear this up from our end but can not reply to any of the posts for some reason like i have said i can only see 20 mile towards Alderney the same as paul can see 20 mile into the channel we can not see what is on the other side this would be for the race controller / convyer to get hold of someone on the south coast to give there reports

[tyson]

rene as I have said previously I am one of the race control team I checked out all the live webcams that I have available to me they were all checked out on the french side also on the english side from eastbourne to west of portsmouth and they showed channel clear if it had been coastal fog farther west and birds did encounter it birds would have tried to go round it my own personal feeling on what happened jmo is something happened before the birds reached the french coast because if it had been coastal fog on the english side I think there would be a lot more pigeons home jmo peter

[Guest rene]

rene as I have said previously I am one of the race control team I checked out all the live webcams that I have available to me they were all checked out on the french side also on the english side from eastbourne to west of portsmouth and they showed channel clear if it had been coastal fog farther west and birds did encounter it birds would have tried to go round it my own personal feeling on what happened jmo is something happened before the birds reached the french coast because if it had been coastal fog on the english side I think there would be a lot more pigeons home jmo peter

 

 

i dont want to put an even bigger spanner into the works but i was informed tonight that there was a big liberation of some 20,000 birds i dont know where from but can soon find out but these were birds going into holland and belgium i belive could there of possably been a clash as i said i dont know where they were being liberated from or at what time but could soon find out

[tyson]

unusual for them to be raceing on a friday is it not

[Guest stb-]

i dont want to put an even bigger spanner into the works but i was informed tonight that there was a big liberation of some 20,000 birds i dont know where from but can soon find out but these were birds going into holland and belgium i belive could there of possably been a clash as i said i dont know where they were being liberated from or at what time but could soon find out

WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW AT WHAT TIME AND FROM WHERE THEY WERE LIBBED

 

AND WAS IT FRIDAY ,, ANY INFO WOULD BE GREAT

[Guest rene]

WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW AT WHAT TIME AND FROM WHERE THEY WERE LIBBED

 

AND WAS IT FRIDAY ,, ANY INFO WOULD BE GREAT

 

 

 

i will try and find out tomo

 

as for the fri lib this is what i got told how unusual that is i realy dont know tbh

[frank-123]

i will try and find out tomo

 

as for the fri lib this is what i got told how unusual that is i realy dont know tbh

 

there was friday liberations due to take place but both races held over maybe there was another that went on friday

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

What can change Gareth? Race line? Wots yer ideas for change?

Would you support a combine situation for one inland nat then a later Gold cup?

What about a Clermont/Ypres before the Gold Cup? a return to the old days?

What about a dead centre race point for Gold Cup?

 

Could the Weather info be better collated by a scientific, unattached, profesional? What would this cost? Wouyld they put their heads on the line with sole control of libs?

How do we gather weather info at the present? Can it be improved?

 

Loads of questions and variables!!!!

 

Hi Steven im finding it hard after Messac to have any enthusiasm to put the thought of what has to change, as individuals though we go about our business like professionals, the time, effort and money etc that we spend is unbelievable. Collectively though we are amateurs.

 

The main subject that really anoys me is the fact that we are now down to sending 1000 from the premier race of the season which is down to declining membership, perhaps someone can tell me?? has there ever been another sport that has gave up on itself so easy, membership has been declining for a couple of decades and what has we the members of the SHU done about it??? 70-80% of the population of this country no nothing about pigeons infact when you tell them that you are racing Eastbourne this week they actually believe that the pigeons leave the loft fly down to Eastbourne and then fly back. We should have had decades ago a full time PRO/ Educational officer to educate the population by what ever means possible, is it too late to do this - probuarly YES which is very sad, depressed like many others at what happened in Messac but for me its not about not getting a doo, its about the future, WHERE ARE WE GOING,

 

HAVE WE ALL COLLECTIVLY KILLED OUR SPORT

 

Remember a new party coming to power in 1997 which ranted EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION. WHOSE RANTING AND PROMISING ANYTHING WITHIN OUR SPORT, Where is the belief.

 

 

There are many other points to talk about Steven such as the ones you raised in your post, but............................................ :cry-blow:

[dal2]

Hi Steven im finding it hard after Messac to have any enthusiasm to put the thought of what has to change, as individuals though we go about our business like professionals, the time, effort and money etc that we spend is unbelievable. Collectively though we are amateurs.

 

The main subject that really anoys me is the fact that we are now down to sending 1000 from the premier race of the season which is down to declining membership, perhaps someone can tell me?? has there ever been another sport that has gave up on itself so easy, membership has been declining for a couple of decades and what has we the members of the SHU done about it??? 70-80% of the population of this country no nothing about pigeons infact when you tell them that you are racing Eastbourne this week they actually believe that the pigeons leave the loft fly down to Eastbourne and then fly back. We should have had decades ago a full time PRO/ Educational officer to educate the population by what ever means possible, is it too late to do this - probuarly YES which is very sad, depressed like many others at what happened in Messac but for me its not about not getting a doo, its about the future, WHERE ARE WE GOING,

 

HAVE WE ALL COLLECTIVLY KILLED OUR SPORT

 

Remember a new party coming to power in 1997 which ranted EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION. WHOSE RANTING AND PROMISING ANYTHING WITHIN OUR SPORT, Where is the belief.

 

 

There are many other points to talk about Steven such as the ones you raised in your post, but............................................ :cry-blow:

 

 

Ye its soul destroying, empty perches just when you thought youd got yer breeding right!!!!!

 

Needs a young person to force this sport on. Somebody who can relate to the past but also link with the modern!

 

If we are serious about being more professional then IMO we must get a meteorologist to be sole advisor/collator and let him find his weather contacts,

One inland nat must go and combine racing with feds helping each other convoy at least until the race before the coast is a must.

We are all racing east now bar a couple of feds I think so that is poss!

 

I also think that the gold cup could afford to be a week or two later but weather is fickle bassa!!!!

[Delboy]

Hi Steven im finding it hard after Messac to have any enthusiasm to put the thought of what has to change, as individuals though we go about our business like professionals, the time, effort and money etc that we spend is unbelievable. Collectively though we are amateurs.

 

The main subject that really anoys me is the fact that we are now down to sending 1000 from the premier race of the season which is down to declining membership, perhaps someone can tell me?? has there ever been another sport that has gave up on itself so easy, membership has been declining for a couple of decades and what has we the members of the SHU done about it??? 70-80% of the population of this country no nothing about pigeons infact when you tell them that you are racing Eastbourne this week they actually believe that the pigeons leave the loft fly down to Eastbourne and then fly back. We should have had decades ago a full time PRO/ Educational officer to educate the population by what ever means possible, is it too late to do this - probuarly YES which is very sad, depressed like many others at what happened in Messac but for me its not about not getting a doo, its about the future, WHERE ARE WE GOING,

 

HAVE WE ALL COLLECTIVLY KILLED OUR SPORT

 

 

Remember a new party coming to power in 1997 which ranted EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION. WHOSE RANTING AND PROMISING ANYTHING WITHIN OUR SPORT, Where is the belief.

 

 

There are many other points to talk about Steven such as the ones you raised in your post, but............................................ :cry-blow:

 

 

Very true Gareth but I fear we are too late.Mind ye, I know someone who fits the bill that can relate to old and modern times and promote the sport to a high standard. STEP UP, Mr Rankin

[Guest IB]

i dont want to put an even bigger spanner into the works but i was informed tonight that there was a big liberation of some 20,000 birds i dont know where from but can soon find out but these were birds going into holland and belgium i belive could there of possably been a clash as i said i dont know where they were being liberated from or at what time but could soon find out

 

I did say when waiting for birds from Messac that the race had the same 'feel' to it as Bourges last year and Alencon the year before.

 

These previous races were bad, but I think the causes were different. At Bourges 2010 - and I think I am right in saying this, the majority of the members did not hear this until AGM at beginning of this year - Belgian, Dutch and French transporters arrived on Site after us and agreement was reached that after the weather cleared, UK birds (smallest convoy) would liberate first, followed by upwards of 20,000 pigeons going east. What was suggested at AGM was the larger convoy caught up with and dragged our birds east, with most of them never crossing the channel.

 

My point in posting this is the probable cause of the 2010 bad race was known by a few at the time, but the management kept it to themselves, or perhaps not, because the 'party line' at the time was it was probably down to changed atmospherics caused by thunderstorms in France for 2/3 days prior to the race. If something did happen at / after Messac 2011, at least let us know what it was - now, not after 7 months.

[Guest stb-]

Hi Steven im finding it hard after Messac to have any enthusiasm to put the thought of what has to change, as individuals though we go about our business like professionals, the time, effort and money etc that we spend is unbelievable. Collectively though we are amateurs.

 

The main subject that really anoys me is the fact that we are now down to sending 1000 from the premier race of the season which is down to declining membership, perhaps someone can tell me?? has there ever been another sport that has gave up on itself so easy, membership has been declining for a couple of decades and what has we the members of the SHU done about it??? 70-80% of the population of this country no nothing about pigeons infact when you tell them that you are racing Eastbourne this week they actually believe that the pigeons leave the loft fly down to Eastbourne and then fly back. We should have had decades ago a full time PRO/ Educational officer to educate the population by what ever means possible, is it too late to do this - probuarly YES which is very sad, depressed like many others at what happened in Messac but for me its not about not getting a doo, its about the future, WHERE ARE WE GOING,

 

HAVE WE ALL COLLECTIVLY KILLED OUR SPORT

 

Remember a new party coming to power in 1997 which ranted EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION. WHOSE RANTING AND PROMISING ANYTHING WITHIN OUR SPORT, Where is the belief.

 

 

There are many other points to talk about Steven such as the ones you raised in your post, but............................................ :cry-blow:

down to 1000 birds is the biggest shock to me ,, i had not raced since 2004 until last year due to buisness commitments but could not beleive the decline in 5 years , also the amount of poor races and the amount of birds getting mutilated bye peregrine falcons , i think pigeon racing as it was once known is finnished now , think its beyond the point of repair JMHO

[JohnQuinn]

I did say when waiting for birds from Messac that the race had the same 'feel' to it as Bourges last year and Alencon the year before.

 

These previous races were bad, but I think the causes were different. At Bourges 2010 - and I think I am right in saying this, the majority of the members did not hear this until AGM at beginning of this year - Belgian, Dutch and French transporters arrived on Site after us and agreement was reached that after the weather cleared, UK birds (smallest convoy) would liberate first, followed by upwards of 20,000 pigeons going east. What was suggested at AGM was the larger convoy caught up with and dragged our birds east, with most of them never crossing the channel.

 

My point in posting this is the probable cause of the 2010 bad race was known by a few at the time, but the management kept it to themselves, or perhaps not, because the 'party line' at the time was it was probably down to changed atmospherics caused by thunderstorms in France for 2/3 days prior to the race. If something did happen at / after Messac 2011, at least let us know what it was - now, not after 7 months.

 

I was on the management committee last year and can assure you of 2 things.

 

Firstly, i am made no more wiser than you and have no more information than you on ANY race good or bad!!!!

 

Secondly, i Don't do Party Line, i say it as i see it or as i know it to be, like it or lump it.

 

So your post is out of order and you aught to give more credit to men who are doing a job 99% of the members wouldn't do.

[tyson]

well said john