Overfly/Underfly

[Diamond dave]

Can anyone answer this question.- Several members in our club are refusing to vote in a new member saying "we would have to give him too much overfly".

I can't see how that makes any sense when they fly in the nationals and have to give hundreds of miles overfly to the Northern most members and some 30 -40 miles to the northern most end of the section.

Is there justification in such a reason at club level or is this a lame excuse.....?

 

D.D.

[geordie1234]

Can anyone answer this question.- Several members in our club are refusing to vote in a new member saying "we would have to give him too much overfly".

I can't see how that makes any sense when they fly in the nationals and have to give hundreds of miles overfly to the Northern most members and some 30 -40 miles to the northern most end of the section.

Is there justification in such a reason at club level or is this a lame excuse.....?

 

D.D.

i think lame excuse

[PIGEON_MAN]

Most clubs have a radius which members wanting to join have to be in,is this guy in the radius although it really doesnt matter if he is because it is up to the majority of the members weather they accept his application or not.

[OLDYELLOW]

Can anyone answer this question.- Several members in our club are refusing to vote in a new member saying "we would have to give him too much overfly".

I can't see how that makes any sense when they fly in the nationals and have to give hundreds of miles overfly to the Northern most members and some 30 -40 miles to the northern most end of the section.

Is there justification in such a reason at club level or is this a lame excuse.....?

 

D.D.

Nationals are different from club racing , I think what your members are saying is that they don't want the competition in there club , as the new member would have greater advantage been at the back , especial on fly overs he'd be first drop at back then they'd have to give him overfly as well I can't think why clubs turn members down , they'll only join another club and help there coffers , are they frightened of the competition ?

[airdrie2]

TRUE DOO MEN ALLWAYS SCARED OF THE COMPETITION I TAKE IT THIS DOO MAN HAS LEFT ANOTHER CLUB TO COME TO YOURS SMALL MINDLESSNESS WILL BE THE DEATH OF PIGEON RACING they allways moaning about something

[boxer]

we give 10 mile over fly every week but the members in our club always moan about it. i personaly think its there advantage

[Guest youngboy]

i hate when i read things like this. Also we always here ppl sayin we do it because we love it will this isint the case just tryin to be greedy i fly shortest in club and have no problem as long as my birds are home safe and in good time thats what really matter im well aware of the competition side of it but the more the merrier i believe will only want you to try harder with more people

[Guest mick bowler]

a lame excuse, good birds win anywhere!

[robbiedoo.]

a lame excuse, good birds win anywhere!

 

not a truer word said

[Guest chad3646]

Can anyone answer this question.- Several members in our club are refusing to vote in a new member saying "we would have to give him too much overfly".

I can't see how that makes any sense when they fly in the nationals and have to give hundreds of miles overfly to the Northern most members and some 30 -40 miles to the northern most end of the section.

Is there justification in such a reason at club level or is this a lame excuse.....?

 

D.D.

 

i would say lame excuse the gentleman must be a good flyer

[Guest JonesyBhoy]

Typical doo men.. SCARED off the challenge..

 

Get out your bed earlier.. get better doos.. be more obeservant.. whatever it takes to win.. some people just dont want to.. and in most cases, the people who are always 'against' change or accepting change and couldn't fly a kite...

 

Thats why our sport is in decline..!!!!

[redpied1967]

every dog has his day short\long flyer deano dullock isnt short or long in fed but is furthest into west by alot to 99% of members, n his birds win on eny wind (first 13 in fed) first 8 in the fed 2011. back dropers hv an advantage if the birds mess abt at lib but on straight forwood day first drop ob back drop yb sprinting my would be choice just my opinion. cos real good birds win ENYWERE.

[Diamond dave]

The guy making the application is about 5 miles outside the current radius and he would fly about 25 miles further than the shortest flyer - he's not an ace and he has been flying in the same fed up to know and most of our club have beaten him in fed positions - I don't see how they can justify such a statement.........

[DJWa]

The guy making the application is about 5 miles outside the current radius and he would fly about 25 miles further than the shortest flyer - he's not an ace and he has been flying in the same fed up to know and most of our club have beaten him in fed positions - I don't see how they can justify such a statement.........

 

 

1st question -is this guy a member of a club at the moment

2nd - is he moveing to try and win in your club because

hes struggling to score in his own one

3rd - radius were put in place for a reason to allow fair raceing in a club/ fed

and were prob put in place 40-50 years ago

 

as hes out of the radius for your club is he in any other clubs radius

there are lots of things you would need to know before you can pass judgement on this matter jmo

[gulkie]

Most clubs have a radius which members wanting to join have to be in,is this guy in the radius although it really doesnt matter if he is because it is up to the majority of the members weather they accept his application or not.

if this be the answer why don't they reduce there radius

and they could kill the sport even more.

[DJWa]

if this be the answer why don't they reduce there radius

and they could kill the sport even more.

 

do clubs not have thier own radiuses within fed boundries

so each area is covered by differant clubs

 

to my thinking boundries are set so that club members are flying against

other members situated close to them hence making for the fairest raceing

 

if your in one area and want to fly in another your looking for an advantage

which defeats the object of clubs just have a fed

 

if your in the boundry of a club and are a suitabe candidate

then you should be flying there

 

otherwise if you open up or have no boundries whare does it stop

25 miles 50 miles 100 miles

[Guest IB]

IMO there is no such thing as underfly / overfly, every member flies his/her own individual race from the club / fed racepoints, and the fastest pigeon to do it wins.

 

IMO we also need to look to and provide for the future good health of the sport in the face of dwindling memberships leading to clubs folding. Radius needs to be pushed out to cater for that as in the long term there looks to be fewer clubs, but bigger ones. On same tack, an interesting idea from the dad of a member on here, these future clubs really need to have better facilities, they need to be turned into social clubs where folk & their families can sit in comfortable surroundings, have a blether over coffee & sandwich or a drink; where younger folk can access internet or watch TV - facilities that will pull in younger people and perhaps introduce them to pigeons for the first time. They ain't going to come in to existing halls with one heater, bare wooden benches and floors.

 

And first principle of game should be : we're here to fly pigeons against anyone, and may the best bird win.

[Guest spin cycle]

anybody who denies the advantage of overfly is deluding themselves, particularly at shorter races. IMO a race is split into stages .....the first is the liberation which in ypm is the slowest as the birds have to orientate.....next is the bulk of the fly home and finally the last few miles and the trap. the disadvantage for the short loft is that they have less distance to recover the time lost in the liberation phase. thus if 2 pigeons appear over the short loft and the first traps but the other flies on to a longer loft then,barring mishap, the second pigeon will allways win despite the fact that it is really only equal to the first.

 

secondly there is alot of rubbish spoken about fanciers being 'scared' of competition and how this is the death of our sport.....BUT clubs are essentially co-ops and if someone is let in that some members don't want....and they pack up as a result.... the club folds and no-one has a club to fly in...thus accelerating the decline. clubs have radius' to ensure that all their members have a geographical chance of winning. in the case quoted, if he is inside the radius, IMO a very good reason is needed for rejection...but if its outside then, the club has no case to answer

[dal2]

Without a shadow of doubt the biggest advantage gained by postion in clubs is dictated by the breaking point! Over fly in a direct line should make little difference in the distances talked about in this thread. JMO

[Guest JonesyBhoy]

IMO there is no such thing as underfly / overfly, every member flies his/her own individual race from the club / fed racepoints, and the fastest pigeon to do it wins.

 

IMO we also need to look to and provide for the future good health of the sport in the face of dwindling memberships leading to clubs folding. Radius needs to be pushed out to cater for that as in the long term there looks to be fewer clubs, but bigger ones. On same tack, an interesting idea from the dad of a member on here, these future clubs really need to have better facilities, they need to be turned into social clubs where folk & their families can sit in comfortable surroundings, have a blether over coffee & sandwich or a drink; where younger folk can access internet or watch TV - facilities that will pull in younger people and perhaps introduce them to pigeons for the first time. They ain't going to come in to existing halls with one heater, bare wooden benches and floors.

 

And first principle of game should be : we're here to fly pigeons against anyone, and may the best bird win.

 

here here..!!!!! 100% correct..need more people thinking like you mate

[Guest Owen]

First of all, if the Club Consitution has defined the boundries, the applicant must be eligible to apply by having his loft inside the boundries. Club Members have every right to decide on matters such as boundries providing it is done legally in a democratic way.

Before you make statements such as "The best pigeons win", you should stop and think, because that is not true. If you live in a valley, as many of us do, and the distance is measured across the valley sides to the race points, you will find that the pigeons will fly up the length of the valley and not over the hills which are each side of it. Lofts at the entry end of the valley will have a very big advantage. In National Races the distances are usually far longer than many of the Club races which can make a big differance because the pigeons will normally be spread out much more. If you live in areas where there are a lot of Falcons you will find that the pigeons will not fly over the hills at the sides of the valley, prefering to fly along it's length because it is safer for them.

I have had personal experience of this when we formed a new Midweek Club. The new Club was formed to fly directly South whereas the Weekend Club flew on a Southeasterly route. The people who had dominated the Weekend Club for years could not do as they had before because the measured route they now had to fly was directly in line with the valley. After two seasons of this, the Midweek Club folded because the people who had dominated in the Weekend Club would not send, because they were used to winning but could not get in any more.

[Guest mick bowler]

First of all, if the Club Consitution has defined the boundries, the applicant must be eligible to apply by having his loft inside the boundries. Club Members have every right to decide on matters such as boundries providing it is done legally in a democratic way.

Before you make statements such as "The best pigeons win", you should stop and think, because that is not true. If you live in a valley, as many of us do, and the distance is measured across the valley sides to the race points, you will find that the pigeons will fly up the length of the valley and not over the hills which are each side of it. Lofts at the entry end of the valley will have a very big advantage. In National Races the distances are usually far longer than many of the Club races which can make a big differance because the pigeons will normally be spread out much more. If you live in areas where there are a lot of Falcons you will find that the pigeons will not fly over the hills at the sides of the valley, prefering to fly along it's length because it is safer for them.

I have had personal experience of this when we formed a new Midweek Club. The new Club was formed to fly directly South whereas the Weekend Club flew on a Southeasterly route. The people who had dominated the Weekend Club for years could not do as they had before because the measured route they now had to fly was directly in line with the valley. After two seasons of this, the Midweek Club folded because the people who had dominated in the Weekend Club would not send, because they were used to winning but could not get in any more.

 

 

Owen i could highlight a few cases where "the best pigeons do win" despite living in a bad position due to valleys/mountains/falcons.

 

The way i look at it, them that break at the racepoint and fly directly for home (the good pigeons) will always stand a chance of winning, despite the weather, terrain and loft position!

[yeboah]

In our fed as in many the length and breadth of the country there are always going to be certain clubs that feature in front of others because of the loft situation ie north south east or west the winners in these clubs should not be knocked as they can only race the pigeons to there home where they have to make a living from ,there will be many others like myself who enjoy racing into not the most favourable of positions ,it gives me great satisfaction when things go to plan and i get a winner or even sometimes a fed winner proving that every dog has his day ,i do feel personally that would be members should be allowed to compete without all this red tape and bickering at the end of the day if things are not going to plan just look in the mirror ,there looking back at you is the answer

[Guest Owen]

Mick

of course you are right in what you say but the fact is that if you are in a disadvantagious position week after week in the shorter Club races, you will soon get fed up with it. In the example I gave you I am lucky because I live up a long valley and I fly due South. The journey from the race points are more or less a direct route straight into the valley. Partly because I have very good birds and partly because I have an unusual method of training I do really well. When I used to fly the South East route I won races but the majority of the shorter races were won by people who lived 4 miles away down at the start of the valley. The problem was that there were Fanciers who never won anything and they got sickened by it. I believe that, for a Club to be successful, everybody needs to feel that they have a chance. I have seen cases where when Clubs tend to be dominated by one or two Fanciers the Club Members come up with weird and wonderful rules like, you can only clock two pigeons and things like that to try to even out the results. To me that is a bunch of crap because if I am 50th I want to be recorded as 50th and not be given a false result. If I win races I want to feel that the birds have earned their positions and if they are not good enough I think I need to know so that I can do something about it.

[Guest mick bowler]

Owen, i am in the most "disadvantagious" in my club by a long way and if i was honest i would say one of the worse on this Isle! I was also always one of the shortest flyers in my England days,and one of the furthest west. Yes i saw a post that said about short flyers always at a disadvantage and agree to a certain degree about when 2 birds come together your always going lose, but my good birds came on their own, i would clock them in and then stand outside and watch them with the overfly go over lol! As we were one of the most westerly clubs in the fed, the first birds would always be around the "line" but then gradually the late comers would start coming off the east and gradually working right around, where they had gone with the drag. The only times this never happened was when we had fast ones where some would come back out the north.

 

It doesnt matter where you live, good birds are good birds, followers are followers, only when there luck is in do the followers win races. Obviously the bigger the overfly/underfly, the harder it becomes in a poor position, but never impossible and should never be used as an excuse by any that cant win!