Vaccinate Dead Or Live

[budgie]

How do we know that the vaccine we are using is an effective product and why use a dead vaccine which requires a booster whereas a live vaccine only requires one shot.

Edited October 19, 2010 by budgie

[ovy1255]

found dead vaccine did not down my young birds when done for paratyphus year ago but this year used live and it seemed to make them hangy for a couple of days.pays your money and try it.

[David_vet]

1. Re paratyphus the only licenced vaccine in the UK is the dead Colombovac. I did at the beginning of the year to import Chevivac S as I had been the previous 2 years when Colombovac was not available and our Veterinary Medicines Directorate (VMD) refused it because there was a licenced product.

 

2. I got on alright with the Chevivac S with no noticeable problems after vaccination.

 

3. Re dead versus live the will they work - if both have gone through the VMD then there will documentation to confirm that it will do what it says on the label.

 

4. I would prefer one vaccination. However you still have to vaccinate each year.

 

However, I am not prepared to be struck off

 

David

[Fair Play]

I checked out with Defra a few years ago and was warned against Chevita as it was not on the approved list this for pmv landed up with Nobilis.

[Delboy]

The correct way to vaccinate for pmv is firstly with a live vaccine and then 3 weeks later with a dead one. ps, I wouldnt use Chevita vaccinations

[Guest IB]

How do we know that the vaccine we are using is an effective product and why use a dead vaccine which requires a booster whereas a live vaccine only requires one shot.

 

I think there are 2 questions in there. (1) your vaccine product is effective if it prevents an outbreak of that particular disease amongst your birds. On the other hand, vaccination is also a method of eradicating a disease. 30? years have passed, yet PMV is still around?

 

(2) I think its no co-incidence that the only 2 PMV vaccines licensed by VMD for use here are dead vaccines. There must be a reason for that and it is said dead vaccine is safer to use than live vaccine.

[REDCHEQHEN]

The correct way to vaccinate for pmv is firstly with a live vaccine and then 3 weeks later with a dead one. ps, I wouldnt use Chevita vaccinations

 

 

I think that is the wrong answer LOL !!

 

(DON'T THINK THERE ARE ANY APPROVED LIVE pmv vACCINES IN uk)

 

b*llocks re capitals

[REDCHEQHEN]

I think there are 2 questions in there. (1) your vaccine product is effective if it prevents an outbreak of that particular disease amongst your birds. On the other hand, vaccination is also a method of eradicating a disease. 30? years have passed, yet PMV is still around?

 

(2) I think its no co-incidence that the only 2 PMV vaccines licensed by VMD for use here are dead vaccines. There must be a reason for that and it is said dead vaccine is safer to use than live vaccine.

 

 

PMV will only be eradicated when 90 - 100% of fanciers vaccinate their birds

 

if fanciers can get away with signing their own forms and forging signatures - they're not going to vaccinate - it happens a lot - must do - as a fancier from Essex said to me at Blackpool 'who vaccinates these days anyway'

 

so I guess not many in Essex do !!

 

I think he was quite shocked when I said I did......

 

But then we can't vaccinate our own birds in our club

[Delboy]

I think that is the wrong answer LOL !!

 

(DON'T THINK THERE ARE ANY APPROVED LIVE pmv vACCINES IN uk)

 

b*llocks re capitals

 

 

It may be the Wrong answer , but it is the only way to 100% avoid pmv Thats a fact Redcheqhen So , yes, what im saying is that you can still get it after vaccination. The vaccine doesnt 100% stop your pigeons from getting it but it 100% stops them from passing it onto poultry

[holmsidelofts]

1. Re paratyphus the only licenced vaccine in the UK is the dead Colombovac. I did at the beginning of the year to import Chevivac S as I had been the previous 2 years when Colombovac was not available and our Veterinary Medicines Directorate (VMD) refused it because there was a licenced product.

 

2. I got on alright with the Chevivac S with no noticeable problems after vaccination.

 

3. Re dead versus live the will they work - if both have gone through the VMD then there will documentation to confirm that it will do what it says on the label.

 

4. I would prefer one vaccination. However you still have to vaccinate each year.

 

However, I am not prepared to be struck off

 

David

 

Hi All.

I have used both and personally preferred the chevivac S live vaccine as i dont like having to inject the birds twice which you have to do with dead vaccine. I never had any side effects issues with either vaccine.

[David_vet]

Seem to have drifted from Paratyphus to PMV and back again.

 

At this time the only licensed products for both PMV and Paratyphus in pigeons are dead vaccines.

 

The poultry producer has access to live and dead vaccines for both PMV and Salmonella. There are advantages to using both either or both depending on your circumstances. Regrettably, no one size fits all.

 

However, as far as I am aware there is only one disease that has been eradicated, well not found for a very long time anyway, and that is small pox.

 

Otherwise in general terms vaccines will not eradicate disease but enable you to live in an environment where the disease is present without being clinically ill. You may still become infected and you may still shed infection but at a much lower rate than a fully susceptible bird.

 

I am saddened but not surprised to read some of the comments.

 

David

[Guest strapper]

hi david....dont matter how much advice you give on some forums , there will be doubters which have their own opinion..which they are entitled too.

what makes it more annoying at times is that when they ask for advice and you spend time giving them some , they turn around and do something else...then wonder why the birds have got ill .

 

welcome to the site by the way.

[Guest bakes]

hi david....dont matter how much advice you give on some forums , there will be doubters which have their own opinion..which they are entitled too.

what makes it more annoying at times is that when they ask for advice and you spend time giving them some , they turn around and do something else...then wonder why the birds have got ill .

 

welcome to the site by the way.

 

agree with you paul

 

and welcome to site david

 

all the best k.baker

[Guest IB]

PMV will only be eradicated when 90 - 100% of fanciers vaccinate their birds

 

if fanciers can get away with signing their own forms and forging signatures - they're not going to vaccinate - it happens a lot - must do - as a fancier from Essex said to me at Blackpool 'who vaccinates these days anyway'

 

so I guess not many in Essex do !!

 

I think he was quite shocked when I said I did......

 

But then we can't vaccinate our own birds in our club

 

Sad that such practices are allowed to go unchallenged. If a club is lax in making sure its members birds are vaccinated as per rules, then what other rules is the club lax on?

 

Said in another thread its a two-person job and that surely lends itself to two authentic signatures on the vaccination sheet, the person who vaccinated the birds, and the 'helping hands' who witnessed it.

[Guest IB]

Hi All.

I have used both and personally preferred the chevivac S live vaccine as i dont like having to inject the birds twice which you have to do with dead vaccine. I never had any side effects issues with either vaccine.

 

David Parsons raises the issue that only 2 vaccines are authorised by VMD - both dead - and in Scotland our race sheets clearly state 'all birds entered are vaccinated in accordance with 'MAFF' instructions'. MAFF is DEFRA's former title, and DEFRA's instructions state (1) use one of the authorised vaccines and (2) 'vaccinate in accordance with Manufacture's instructions' - both of whom state a single injection, 'annually'.

 

I do not understand the need to alter that?

[REDCHEQHEN]

David Parsons raises the issue that only 2 vaccines are authorised by VMD - both dead - and in Scotland our race sheets clearly state 'all birds entered are vaccinated in accordance with 'MAFF' instructions'. MAFF is DEFRA's former title, and DEFRA's instructions state (1) use one of the authorised vaccines and (2) 'vaccinate in accordance with Manufacture's instructions' - both of whom state a single injection, 'annually'.

 

I do not understand the need to alter that?

 

Holmside lofts is referring to paratyphoid vaccine

[Guest IB]

Holmside lofts is referring to paratyphoid vaccine

 

Thanks, missed that. Thought we were still on PMV.

[david]

Can i ask if individual members treat their birds for a period of time before giving a Paratyphus vaccination(Baytril,Para stop etc")

I hope i'm not jumping of thread topic?

 

Excellant news to have a vet onboard the site.(Welcome David)

 

DAVID

[Roland]

First question I'll ask is Can ST. Bovine be treated? . And better still protected against? After all it is a serious and often not even known about'Big' problem. One that too many have, or had, and treated for something similar.

[OLDYELLOW]

Can i ask if individual members treat their birds for a period of time before giving a Paratyphus vaccination(Baytril,Para stop etc")

I hope i'm not jumping of thread topic?

 

Excellant news to have a vet onboard the site.(Welcome David)

 

DAVID

I'll certainly answer , i only treat my birds when instructed to do so by a vet , i dont see any reason to treat unless a bird or birds are ailing , i believe birds have a great constitution and there first line of defense is there natural immune system and been strong and robust enough to fight infection via there immune system , medications should only be used when ailments are found , the greatest thing about vets they'll test to see which treatment has the best response to fight the ailments , treating blind can only do more damage and in some cases give the infection bacteria or parrasite a more favorable enviroment to take further hold of , also we must think over use of any medication can result in much stronger strains that are harder to erradicate . On that note i test my birds regulary with my vet and up to now never had Paratyphus , the only ailment i get is around may time which is canker in ybs this has been the case for the last two years and been tested and treated for by the vet , i feel that this is down to my management of my ybs and my management will differ slightly to compensate . I find my yearings and 2 years upwards hardly ever ail due to my managemnt and i don't treat on a 3 week cycle , i use more a prevenative measures than treatments hope this helps Mark

[REDCHEQHEN]

First question I'll ask is Can ST. Bovine be treated? . And better still protected against? After all it is a serious and often not even known about'Big' problem. One that too many have, or had, and treated for something similar.

 

 

streptoccocus bovis (now called Streptococcus gallolyticus )has similar symptoms to paratyphoid, but treatment is different - penicillin works on strep.

 

I don't think there is any protection - as it is a normal inhabitant of the gut

[Guest mick bowler]

streptoccocus bovis (now called Streptococcus gallolyticus )has similar symptoms to paratyphoid, but treatment is different - penicillin works on strep.

 

I don't think there is any protection - as it is a normal inhabitant of the gut

 

Ampicillin and amoxycillin best, but Baytril will NOT treat this!

Edited October 20, 2010 by mick bowler

[David_vet]

Interesting how these posts go

 

1. Comments on Streptococcus, I would agree with. Amoxycillin Yes, Baytril No. Emphasises the importance of making a diagnosis.

2. Eradication of PMV - I think this is a little optimistic. Pigeon PMV is out in wood pigeons, doves and on the continent (could be unwittingly brought back with purchases).

What could be achieved is absence of disease in your loft. All I can say is that, in those lofts I have been involved with, where every bird gets vaccinated each year we have not had a problem. All fingers, toes well and truly crossed.

Could be just luck but I would hope not.

3. More than one vaccination a year. Many of you probably already do vaccinate some birds twice in a year, namely this years youngsters.

However, if I had had a problem in a loft or flew in a problem area. I might think about vaccinating twice especially young birds that are vaccinated young.