LATEST FROM PETER BRYANT

[Derbys Lad]

Quote from Me

"If a club is set up to preserve traditional  "clock and thimble" pigeon racing end of story no problem what is big deal. NONE.

 

A seriously disabled person would not be able to look after his birds properly anyway so we then enter the realms of thwe"Animal Welfare" brigade. If it comes in fine the disabled person can join a local club using ETS.Traditional flyers can be members of club promoting traditional  pigeon racing what is the problem????????????"

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree.

The sport of pigeon racing has a proud history built on the foundations of prinicple, democracy and openness. We are all equal in the eyes of the pigeon!

We do not, and should not, discriminate against members on the basis of colour, gender, ability or geopgraphical position. To segregate, divide and exlclude from our clubs those who want or need to use ETS from those who do not or do not need to is inexcusable.

I for one do not want to change my loft set up for ETS as I race open door. But I would rather do this than join a club of "Traditional Racers" as this does not live up to the inclusive ideals that I beleive pigeon racing still has, albeit much diminised.

Moreover, 'disabled' people are not an 'excuse'. The law is the law and we live in a democracy. I suggest you set up a camapign to repeal this law if you have a problem with it.

I shall say no more on this thread.

[me]

"like it or not its got to get passed so lets get on with it" - Slatey

 

nonsense, most pigeon clubs you and I know Slatey have no disabled access whatsoever are you seriously suggesting any club that does not try to rectify that  situation will be closed, of course your not.

 

THINK ABOUT IT.

[Roland]

Well I still see countless  'Public Places' and 'Transports' that are supposedly be made to accomandate Wheel Chairs, Blind Dogs, etc. etc. and Sufferers of M/S etc. etc. and they are by law technicoly discriminated, and in that same scenario, I am afraid Peter is coming the old 'Codswallop' big time. Who enforce these acts...!

Nah a new lawyer needs to be challendging his 'Ole Mucker' of gabbabe!

[REDCHEQHEN]

"like it or not its got to get passed so lets get on with it" - Slatey

 

nonsense, most pigeon clubs you and I know Slatey have no disabled access whatsoever are you seriously suggesting any club that does not try to rectify that  situation will be closed, of course your not.

 

THINK ABOUT IT.

 

Think you got out of the wrong side of the bed today ( and yesterday and the day before............)

are you always argumentative ?

 

The disability discrimination act is not going to go away. Derbys Lad's post was a good one,

I once timed my husband, how long it took him to time a bird in on open door, it was more than 20 seconds - he was very surprised how slow he was, he thought it would be 10 seconds tops, and we have lost a few races by less than 5 seconds -  he wouldn't however want to use ETS, but that is his choice - and thats what its all about - having the option.

[me]

"I'm sorry but I have to disagree." - Derby's Lad

 

"derby lad"  just because you say you disagree means absolutely nothing. The bottom line is this will be forced on people who want to enjoy there hobby in a certain way (traditional clock and thimble pigeon racing) who are you or me for that matter to impose that on anybody,is that not discrimination? The genuinely disadvantaged fanciers, old lads for instance are the guys that "doomen" go and pick up to take to the club on a friday night and believe me these lads still like to time in there doos. The only pigeon fanciers I know with disabled car badges are less ailing than I am, although I must admit I am getting on a bit. One of them actually works as a labourer, you could'nt make it up could you!

[THE FIFER]

ALL THIS SOUNDS VERY FAMILIAR TO ME! HEARD IT ALL BEFORE, ??) ??) ??) ??)

[me]

"are you always argumentative ?" - Red cheq hen

 

let me explain red cheq just because I don't agree with your point of view does not mean i am wrong. THIS IS A DISCUSSION FORUM so people of with different opinions post their points of view. nobody and that includes you, slatey and derby lad has even tried to contradict anything i have said. you say having a choice is what it is all about! why is the choice of someone who wants to enjoy what is a traditional past time less valid than anyone elses?

 

 

[john robo]

I quite like the clock and thimble for me its part of the fun, getting the rubber off the bird trying to get it in the thimble. the heart pounding hands shakin, popping it in the clock for the strike. ets just does not sound the same, bird through trap thats it job done.

[THE FIFER]

ALL THIS SOUNDS VERY FAMILIAR

[me]

"ALL THIS SOUNDS VERY FAMILIAR TO ME! HEARD IT ALL BEFORE" - fifer

 

I'M sure you have fifer but now we are getting "its ok we can apply for grants everybody can get it, level playing field"

 

soon it will be "everybody but you has an ets you will have to change its too much bother"

 

Which funnily enough i agree with if 99% of a club has ets who wants the bother of manual clock. If 99% want to continue racing and timimg in their birds the way they alwas have that does not make them bad people. they may just be traditionalists. If someone wants to use Ets in Scotland for instance he has plenty of oppotunities . if a person wants to race in a club using traditional clock and thimble methods in scotland he is liable to be banned - is that not discrimination? What an amazing amount of people fail to realise is discrimination is alwas positive, what else could it be. As Redcheqhen said  its all about choice!!!

[mealybar]

"The bottom line is this will be forced on people who want to enjoy there hobby in a certain way (traditional clock and thimble pigeon racing)"

 

1. There will never be a rule 'you must have ETS'.

2. People who would like to use ETS currently cannot enjoy their hobby in 'a certain way'.

 

"why is the choice of someone who wants to enjoy what is a traditional past time less valid than anyone elses?"

 

I'd rather pigeon racing didnt become a traditional pastime I'd like us to be racing in the 21st century, and into the 22nd century for that matter! How much longer can we lose 10% of our membership year on year, and keep things status quo?

 

"This is nonsense who "helps" the guy catch his birds to take them to the club to have them race marked at the moment Peter? Who helps scrape them out to ensure the disabled fanciers birds are not less healthy than the able bodied fanciers Peter?  Explain why timing in (IN THE TERMS OF THE ACT)is so very much more important then?"

 

The competitative sport is about the race; it is a fact that ETS is a benefit to disabled fanciers; re-read Fact 5:

 

"FACT 5 - it will be illegal to discriminate against a disabled person ‘in the way it affords him access to a benefit, facility or service’ and ‘by refusing or deliberately omitting to afford him access to a benefit, facility or service.’"

 

There is a product there to help the disabled fancier, and if ETS or an equal alternative is not implemented, I cant see how we wouldnt be breaking it.

 

Are disabled fanciers banned from buying an automated scraping system? Are they limited so that they couldnt modify their loft to enable them to basket the birds easily? I think not.

[john robo]

can you use ETS and others clocks together like stb an t3 get used now

[me]

"How much longer can we lose 10% of our membership year on year, and keep things status quo?"

 

There is nothing you or i can do to stop the decline in membership Mealy bar our hobby has no long term future if you think ets is going to have any impact on that you are delusional in the exteme.

 

most of the rest of your post is i'm sad to say similar to some of the other nonsense posted on this thread.

 

Stall traps have been in use for a very long time and would allow anyone, disabled or otherwise to time in on an equal basis if they excercised their "choice" to install them but of course that would involve traditional clock and thimble racing and some people don't seem to keen on that on this site!

[mealybar]

"How much longer can we lose 10% of our membership year on year, and keep things status quo?"

 

There is nothing you or i can do to stop the decline in membership Mealy bar our hobby has no long term future if you think ets is going to have any impact on that you are delusional in the exteme.

 

most of the rest of your post is i'm sad to say similar to some of the other nonsense posted on this thread.

 

Stall traps have been in use for a very long time and would allow anyone, disabled or otherwise to time in on an equal basis if they excercised their "choice" to install them but of course that would involve traditional clock and thimble racing and some people don't seem to keen on that on this site!

 

I'm sorry you feel that way about our sport, but some of us are doing things to try and stop the rot, we're not all defeatist.

 

Dont think I need comment on your other remarks :X

[REDCHEQHEN]

Quote from me :

 

Stall traps have been in use for a very long time and would allow anyone, disabled or otherwise to time in on an equal basis if they excercised their "choice" to install them

 

that is not true, you don't have to be in a wheelchair to be disabled - there are plenty of other disabilities that are a handicap - believe you me I know, and I for one was only able to see the arrivals from two or three races this season as I was otherwise incapacitated - so anyone with a similar disability would have no chance of timing in manually. A disability is and I quote from Peter Bryant:

 

Under the Act a person has a disability “if he has a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities”. So, you don’t just have to be in a wheelchair, or be an orange badge holder etc.  Disability is as broad as it is long.

 

and that covers a hell of a lot of chronic illnesses that impact on day to day living

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Paulo]

Can I just remind people that 'cost' and 'advantage with / disadvantage without' are no longer relevant issues?

 

Fit the whole club out with the ETS system of your choice: get a deal from your chosen supplier, and get a grant from the Lottery 'Awards for All' scheme.

 

 

our club got one for clocks just recently so don't think we would get another one!

[Guest]

People go on about, members taking 10 positions etc, if someone has 10 , 15 even birds before me fair play. But rules can be brought in at club level where only 3 birds can be timed etc, it happens today with the conventional clocks that we use! in my local club we have a 16 bird club limit, any birds above that compete for fed only honours, and you have to take your hat of to the fanciers it is very rare for a fed only bird to be first in the clock.

We should be given the choice wether we use it or not, no-one will force you to use it, but lets be given the option.

[Guest]

can you use ETS and others clocks together like stb an t3 get used now

 

I think i am right in saying that in certain types of races on the continent, (sprint races etc) rubbers have to be timed also. I amnot sure where this stops.

 

I have been to germany, 3 years ago now, where 99.99% of fanciers have ets. In the early stages before it was introduced everyone over there were having disagreements regarding it, but now it is the best thing since sliced bread. 3 years ago they were all laughing at me! You would never belive how many spare 'rubber ring' clocks are over there! lying on the shelves, offering them for less than £20!!!

 

 

[Guest Paulo]

we are all human beings we don't like change lol its human nature. I just think catching the pigeon is an intregal part of the sport that requires great skill. Ets takes all the fun out of it like dropping the rubber and scambling around for it.

[Guest Paulo]

Lol it will take all those great tale stories away that old man tell you at pigeon sales like I should have topped the fed, UNC etc but I dropped the rubber, put it in the timble the wrong why so it jammed etc lol

[Guest Paulo]

Nevermind when the young uns of the future pigeons just have to fly over the house to win and you can track them on GPS I will be the old bloke with my whippet and pint in the pub saying "things were much harder in the old days, you had to catch the pigeon and everything lol.''

 

Still better than Ushaw Moor circa 1960's when you had to get the rubber off the bird and sprint down to the post office. Apparently if you saw someone coming from the bottom or top allotments you had to up your pace and there was a few squabble outside the post office door lol.

[Pompey Mick]

Whilst fully agreeing with Peter Bryant on his reasoning behind the propsed restructuring of RPRA fees I feel that the RPRA should look at their sums.

Dont forget that RPRA fees are levied per RPRA member  i.e. partnerships will pay £10.00 per partner.

Knowing what some fanciers are like I think we will see a big reduction in family and historical partnerships such as Mr & Mrs   and  Sons or Daughters no longer showing an interest in the sport. If this happens then the expected rise in revenue will not materialise.

Perhaps a further restructuring could be envisaged such as paying a realistic fee through the RPRA code No. with a  surcharge for each partners if applicable.

[Guest]

I think I'm the only one that has mentioned the bird's welfare in this thread.

 

And nobody has mentioned training. ETS times your birds home from training too.

 

And I think I'm the only one that has mentioned the difference on marking nights, speaking from direct experience, been at both tables:

 

(1) Sitting at the ETS table with birds ring number being called, bird swiped thro in milliseconds the numbers there on screen in front of you; a simple Aye! and its in the basket. And your whole race entry is printed off, in consecutive number order.

 

(2) Sitting at the ringer table, struggling to read folk's writing; ring nos on the race sheet, often wrong, and written down in the order the birds came oot the loft, struggling to get rubbers over ancient ringers and get the birds feet into them; then maybe straightening the rubber - before the bird even gets near the basket.

 

And I 'm probably the only person that doesn't like catching the bird to time it in, because thats the last thing it wants. And the last thing I want is to do something it doesn't want done, because it'll remember that the very next race it comes home.....

 

 

[me]

"I think I'm the only one that has mentioned the difference on marking nights" - Bruno

 

Thats great Bruno glad your happy but the point is some people like to take part in traditional "clock and thimble" pigeon racing what is wrong with that? Freedom of choice is what it is all about nothing in the new act amending the original legislation makes a criminal out of those who wish to take part in their traditional pastime those who want to do something else good luck to them as well. As I say freedom of choice is what its all about , not people who say I demand to use ETS and I demand you race you pigeons with me as well or I,ll get you banned and threaten you with legal action, that is just nonsense.  

[ALF]

I think I'm the only one that has mentioned the bird's welfare in this thread.

 

And nobody has mentioned training. ETS times your birds home from training too.

 

And I think I'm the only one that has mentioned the difference on marking nights, speaking from direct experience, been at both tables:

 

(1) Sitting at the ETS table with birds ring number being called, bird swiped thro in milliseconds the numbers there on screen in front of you; a simple Aye! and its in the basket. And your whole race entry is printed off, in consecutive number order.

 

(2) Sitting at the ringer table, struggling to read folk's writing; ring nos on the race sheet, often wrong, and written down in the order the birds came oot the loft, struggling to get rubbers over ancient ringers and get the birds feet into them; then maybe straightening the rubber - before the bird even gets near the basket.

 

And I 'm probably the only person that doesn't like catching the bird to time it in, because thats the last thing it wants. And the last thing I want is to do something it doesn't want done, because it'll remember that the very next race it comes home.....

 

 

BRUNO COULD'NT AGREE WITH YOU MORE AS I HAVE SEEN IT BEING USED IN 2 CLUBS NOW AND IT SURE IS A LOT EASIER AND A LOT BETTER IF YOU HAVE A PIGEON THAT IS RACING TO YOU EVERY WEEK AND DONT WANT TO CATCH IT ALL THE TIME ;D ;D

 

PS....NO I DONT USE ETS MYSELF.......YET ;D ;D ;D