Hawks

[celtic]

When is something going to be done about the hawk problem ? and yes i am talking from personal expierience having lost 18/20 well trained yb/s in one toss last week, something has to be done to get the message across, would any other sport take a back seat and accept it as we do ?, gutted about these do-gooders at the rspb and there consistant going on that hawks need protecting !!!

What about our pigeons ?????

Celtic

[markspigeons]

yeah know what you saying buddie. i have in the past taken this up with the rspb and other groups all i got was , well keep your birds locked up in a aviry, they dont care about our pigeons and they call them selfs bird lovers,

[jimmy white]

yes , unfortunately it was me that released these birds and wittnessed nothing but carnage ,,,birds hitting the ground,, flying right into gorse bushes ,trees etc ,,,it really makes me mad that the rspb are releasing these birds to breed, in fact on a notice board at the borders is a fact sheet of all wild life ,, and a picture of the perigrines which are" now breeding freely around this area"    area?????    all over >,,, this was one i wittnessed ,,how many have gone by without anyone seeing it happen ,,,,,,,the odds have to be the latter  

[jimmy white]

   p,s i shall be taking this matter further >

[jimmy white]

can anyone give me the direct addy of mr duncan orr-ewing of the rspb,, me thinks he needs lots of e,mails

[Back garden fancier]

I can't see the problem going away, the protection on all birds is here to stay. Back in the 60's and 70's peregrines and other birds were almost extinct due to pesticide poisoning (DDT etc ) These pesticides are now banned and their numbers have inceased. Even if for some reason the protection on birds of prey was "down graded" to the same status as say pheasants and crows etc. You still wouldn't be able to tramp all over the countryside with a gun, just as you can't now. So who would shoot the peregrines? A few gamekeepers would get rid of some on country estates, but what about all the ones in the City centres? There is a pair of peregrines on our local church steeple, I don't think the vicar would let me shoot them! Sorry to be ngative, but the problem is here to stay.

[markspigeons]

i lost a good bird at the weekend no way has that got lost its been got by a hawk or hit a wire or somthing but i reckon a hawk.

[Jumbo]

I had 2 birds return on saturday which have been hawked from the race from Arniston, the 2nd one i don't know how he has managed to get home, he has a hole in his back and his breast is wide open these birds amaze me sometimes.

[jimmy white]

I can't see the problem going away, the protection on all birds is here to stay. Back in the 60's and 70's peregrines and other birds were almost extinct due to pesticide poisoning (DDT etc ) These pesticides are now banned and their numbers have inceased. Even if for some reason the protection on birds of prey was "down graded" to the same status as say pheasants and crows etc. You still wouldn't be able to tramp all over the countryside with a gun, just as you can't now. So who would shoot the peregrines?"A FEW GAMEKEEPERS WOULD GET RID OF THEM   ON SOME COUNTRY ESTATES"    but what about all the ones in the City centres? There is a pair of peregrines on our local church steeple, I don't think the vicar would let me shoot them! Sorry to be ngative, but the problem is here to stay.

 

with due respect  b,g,l, the few gamekeepers have been fined up to £10,000 for exactly this???  yet for robbing an old ladies handbag,,,community service??????

something far wrong somewhere in the law ,,,,,,which , if you dont look positive ,, this problem of hawks will finish the fancy alltogether in years to come ,, theres allready been a big decline because of this , it can only get worse

[swilcox]

All i will say is we are Pigeon Farmers!!, Cattle Farmers can protect there livestock by law, Defra have labelled pigeons livestock by law so the law says i can protect my livestock which are pigeons!!!!!

 

Fight fire with Fire!!!!

[jimmy white]

could anyone that has been subjected to hawk attacks ,,please post on this topic, as i shall be taking the matter further,, thank you  [pics if poss ]

[jimmy white]

All i will say is we are Pigeon Farmers!!, Cattle Farmers can protect there livestock by law, Defra have labelled pigeons livestock by law so the law says i can protect my livestock which are pigeons!!!!!

 

Fight fire with Fire!!!!

 

entirely agree with you stuart

[jimmy white]

there is a lib at hopetoun house[just on outskirts of Edinburgh] in a race flying to Cardiff this weekend "the Europa classic " this race had originally 2, 500 birds from the best pigeons all over the world ,, with around £200,000 involved from start to finish and a brand new car ,, £30,000 to the winner this weekend ,,,, the 2,500 birds have now been decimated, down to 800  due to hawk attacks in training ,,among these" lost "birds are some very valuable birds ,,,,,,,lets hope that they don't suffer any hawk attacks

[Back garden fancier]

As far as I can see there will never be a legal solution available to fanciers. The only possible saviours are natural ones. Enviromental ones are out, global warming won't effect peregrines as they live everywhere from the Med to the Arctic. One other possible candidate is the eagle owl, which eats peregrines for breakfast! It is all ready breeding here and could spread. Finally how ironic would it be if HN51 turned out to be our saviour?? Peregrines and sparrowhawks are at the top of the food chain and as such would be the first to eat infected birds and die.

[jimmy white]

with the pigeon basics permission ,, these posts will be shown to a newspaper , and possibly more?

[jimmy white]

the rspb ,s answer to the eagle owl,,"is their not native to britain " which has been proved wrong in some circles [see the hawks postings on sticky],,,,the eagle owl would be their only predator ,,,but the rspb are against these ,,, these birds mainly eat rabbit which are abundant , but will not tolerate any perigrine near them [both birds choose the same type nesting place],,,but off course that is true nature ,,not false which the rspb seem to want ???

[celtic]

Although we keep birds, some very valuable we are not on the list as far as the rspb are concerned, the time and all the rest that goes with keeping pigeons means nothing at all to them.

[frank-123]

eagle owl is our only hope to clear some route's of peregrine's

 

why not some money from the blackpool show buy eagle  owl's  release them into the wild and hope they breed not doubt there's plenty tasty peregrines going about that could feed the owls

 

or the last step is keep our birds locked up then the percy and sparrow hawk might starve or eat every small bird in britain

the house sparrow which is on the red list of endangered species might just disappear over night

 

 

[Guest]

Just wondering if a new direction is needed?  Perhaps by tackling the RSPB’s indiscriminate help in the spread of these species as an anti-biodiversity issue? The Nature Conservation [scotland] Act 2004 places emphasis on Minister's responsibility for the development of all living species.

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2004/asp_20040006_en_2

 

We all know of press reports of members of public complaining about hawks attacking birds visiting garden feeders - specifically built to attract wild birds?  Scottish Government's Strategy on Biodiversity was published in 2004 in response to this Act. This is the 1st paragraph from their Vision statement:-

 

 

“Let's start in your garden

 

The garden is a miracle. Every year I let a bit go wild just for the pleasure of seeing the nature struggling away to get itself sorted. The roses look bonny, but it's the thistles that bring the goldfinches."

 

Davy Macdonald, retired postman, Kiltarlity

 

 

Gardens are a haven for wildlife, and their importance has increased as wildlife in the wider countryside has declined. Most gardens can be improved to support greater biodiversity through small changes in design, planting and management, for example by planting a native tree, creating a nectar rich border, a garden pond, or a meadow.

 

One garden may seem trivial, and it may be if seen in isolation, but if many people do the same, and if public spaces are better managed for biodiversity, then networks will spring up, our actions will reinforce each other, and biodiversity will flourish."

 

Strategy document at :-

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2004/05/19366/37243

 

May be worthwhile contacting Scottish Environment LINK as they have an interest in promoting sustainable natural environment, provide a forum for 36 member organizations, and have a  biodiversity taskforce.

 

http://www.scotlink.org/About_LINK/LINK_is.php

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

excellent reading bruno,,also worth joining, or reading is  the" songbird survival" at     www.songbird-survival.org.uk        or any queries to  dawn-chorus@SONGBIRD-SURVIVAL.ORG.UK,,,this is an organisation , very much against the rspb , for their un-natural way of balancing nature,, or just look up songbird survival

[jimmy white]

QUOTED FROM THE SONG BIRD SURVEY ,,,,   " THE WAY FORWARD"

 

"SONGBIRD SURVIVAL BELEIVES THAT THERE MUST BE SENSITIVE CONTROL OF SELECTIVE PREDETOR POPULATIONS TO AID THE RECOVERY OF SONGBIRDS WHILE HABITAT IMPROVEMENTS ARE TAKING PLACE"

 

"THE RSPB HAS BEEN SINGULARLY SUCCESSFULL IN ATTRACTING ONE MILLION MEMBERS, HOWEVER, IT CANNOT CLAIM THAT ITS ACTIONS, HAVE IN ANYWAY BEEN EFFECTIVE, IN RE-INTRODUCING SOME RAPTOR SPECIES, BUT CERTAINLY DOES NOT FIND IT CONVENIENT TO TELL MEMBERS THAT THESE PREDETARY BIRDS WILL ADD TO THE KILLING OF LITERALLY MILLIONS OF SONGBIRDS EVERY YEAR"

 

SONGBIRD SURVIVAL WILL MEASURE ITS SUCCESS BY ITS ABILITY, WITH THE PROPER RESEARCH,TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ABOUT THE NEED TO LIFT THE PROTECTION GIVEN TO THOSE PREDATORS,WHOSE POPULATION HAVE INCREASED TO SUCH LEVELS, THAT THEY ARE PROOVING A THREAT TO SONG AND OTHER BIRDS"     UNQUOTE, WWW.SONGBIRD-SURVIVAL.ORG.UK

[Guest]

can anyone give me the direct addy of mr duncan orr-ewing of the rspb,, me thinks he needs lots of e,mails

 

Couldn't find a direct one Jimmy, but there is a 'contact us' page on the Scottish website that you can use to send comments:-

 

http://www.rspb.org.uk/contactus/

[DJ]

hi all  im only a novice and have only kept racing pigeons for the last year or so      my pigeons were attacked by sparrowhawks in jan - march this year and now the sparrowhawks are back just when i thought that maybe i may be safe until jan - march next year   i havnt started racing yet and dread to think of what my pigeons may have to endure from the hawks when trying to get home from a race in the future?  everyone on pigeonbasics has been great helping me out with advice when i needed it especially when i first got started but when i think of my pigeons being hawked on their way home from a race it makes me wonder whether i would want to put my pigeons through that ordeal  i probably sound soft to some seasoned fanciers but at the end of the day my pigeons safety/welfare comes first as im sure it does with the majority of fanciers       debbie

[Back garden fancier]

Hi Debbie, you're right about it being an ordeal for pigeons being " hawked" they never forget. I'm sure that more pigeons are lost to wires and bad weather. But that doesn't frighten the wits out of them. I've lost 6 young birds on the wires round home this year, and 1 to a sparrowhawk, but the others took weeks to get over the hawk attack. They never even look back when the wires cut one out of the flock.

[Guest]

why dont we all join the rspb every racing,, fancy, all kinds of pigeon fanciers we all pay our fees to the rspb and then we can change anything we want to do with protection as the majority of members will be pigeon fanciers ,if you wont to do something to save our sport then why not give it a go