YB LOSSES

[Guest spin cycle]

i only started in pigeons in 2005 but i'd got the impression that yb losses was quite a recent problem ( last 10 yrs?). but i'm reading a book by ken kippax and he mentions it as a major  problem. the book was written in 1982? so when did the losses start or has it always been 'carnage'?

[REDCHEQHEN]

It depends where you fly and what problems you are likely to encounter - some people have few losses, others don't

 

[Guest Silverwings]

young bird losses seem to have gradually increased in the uk since the onset of sprint racing and the introduction of unatural systems such as widowhood and y.b darkness etc , perhaps the strength of the level of homing instinct required by todays pigeons is being eroded ? fingers often point to radio waves telecomunication and even the increasing hawk population but the reason could be closer to home !!!! ......ray

[jimmy white]

young bird losses seem to have gradually increased in the uk since the onset of sprint racing and the introduction of unatural systems such as widowhood and y.b darkness etc , perhaps the strength of the level of homing instinct required by todays pigeons is being eroded ? fingers often point to radio waves telecomunication and even the increasing hawk population but the reason could be closer to home !!!! ......ray

 

i certainly beleive in this post,, but must add have found many fanciers nowadays, not properly basket training yb,s which i think is very important ,they must be stressless, confident and able to drink freely b4 even attempting to train , but apart from this,,,a very good post above

[Roland]

young bird losses seem to have gradually increased in the uk since the onset of sprint racing and the introduction of unatural systems such as widowhood and y.b darkness etc , perhaps the strength of the level of homing instinct required by todays pigeons is being eroded ? fingers often point to radio waves telecomunication and even the increasing hawk population but the reason could be closer to home !!!! ......ray

 

First class annalyst that ... Further the eroding but incest and unnatural breeding I believe also plays a major part.

[Guest spin cycle]

good answers. from what little i've seen i think de-hydration is a big factor (basket training). also as losses increase people run bigger teams= less individal attention=bigger losses=even bigger teams just to survive season.is this fair assesment ?

[johno]

any proof to add to these theories?

[Merlin]

The amount of Young Bird losses is factual in most instsnces,disregarding methods of management,it basically happens to the same fanciers,there appears to be an element of fanciers in most clubs that dont suffer these terrible losses,barring accidents,this leads me to summarize its mostly the methods employed thats chiefly to blame,foremost one being the quality of youngster being produced with fanciers having 100/150/200/rings and sadly using them,in lots of instances breeding from so called superior paper pigeons,sometimes to the detriment of their own tried and tested birds.These are only two reasons,there are too many more to list here to any new novices I would say to them walk before you run,and for a lot of the rest,get back to basics.  

[steve d]

My opinion on young bird losses is they are lost because they are ill and it has gone un-noticed. We have all been to the club and a couple of fanciers have had very poor returns had the rest of us have had 100 % returns.

In the 2005 season my youngsters were roaming for 2 sometimes 3 hours, i had give them several 16 mile training tosses with excellent returns in half decent time. I took 46 of them for their 9th toss from the usual point with a perfect sunny day and a light north west wind, they refused to clear the site I left them after watching them fly around for above 20 minutes.

I had 12 back on the day and only ever had another 4 since, the 12 I had back were vomiting their corn next day and took me another 3 weeks to get them right. I had raced back from work to basket these birds so did not really look at them but im sure that I took them when  they were ill.

[Roland]

Nah, can't agree or see any logic there Steve D. Besides most fanciers have a good inkling of keeping their birds in good nick.

Up until the 'Money' got into the sport, and the able starting fleecing the grass roots, 24 pairs was a 'Mob Flyer'!

Bear me out here, as I continue, that 18 birds or between 9 and say 12 pairs was the norm.

They flew every race between them and most going to 70% / 80% of the races and ALL had to do a 250 odd miler as y/b's 450 or more as yearlings and as far as possible, indeed anywhere as an 2 yearold.

Losses were few, and most birds not  on their perch at night fall were  on loft mostly early morning. If not then during the week. Training was mostly via Bike, Train once or twice a month, or just the club races.

The condition of birds today, as to 30 years ago even let alone 50, are far far better health wise etc. Just look at the show pens. - Not saying too many 'Ills' Aren't covered over though - Better managed, trained and looked after. 1000's of video's, books etc. etc. and like here a great mount of information available.

Would birds live with the birds of yesteryear? Seems not volicty wise. Deffinately not losses wise. If one could cagde 4 pairs when starting up, which invariably they did, the they were set for their first young bird season. And none of this 'Saving them, holding back, and what 150 miles!, nah keeping them in the loft! Malarky. Birds had to prove themselves by being there at seasons end. And the problem was which had to go, not make room for more, add more perches. At seasons end if all birds didn't have a perch... well some had to go!

Too many look for excuses, and too many offer silly ones that suit, like 'Strain, like type, and then crap scenario's like 'Over Crowding' just lame crutches for bad managerment.

Only ever had one fly away... bought in 24 y/b's on the Saturday. Was a mite old granted. Left to walk in and out Sunday. Monday they flew up and down a bit, like wise Tuesday when hawk attacked. Next time out when still on garden Grand daughter thought it fun to chase with a Stick. Up tjhey went, and got hit by the mid week Barnsley way  Fed. Next day one back, over the next few weeks I got another 8 back... Still have them, and only been tossed once and raced once. All the way this season.

If I lose them, it is via Human means and not the birds.

[just ask me]

roland dont agree with ure sprint theroy as i know of sum top class long distance flyers that say u have to put sprint birds into ure familly i tought this was too speed them up a bit but i was wrong they tell me that a top class sprint pigeon has to have good homeing instints as if they go off there line a bit there race is over just sumthing else to think about  i think a lot is down to methods and pigeons not being ttrained right how come in todays age we cant see what happened to these like to see a project set up with sum kind of tracking system to see how many birds end up in falcons nests or where they go beats me nice to see other pll opions

[Roland]

You've lost me there, what sprint theory? Please refresh as I can't see it lol

[Roland]

Just ask me says ' ....i think a lot is down to methods and pigeons not being ttrained right how come in todays age ...' Exactly, 50 years ago only trained on bike, bus or once in a while train for 2/6 - 12p. Yet every loft nigh at seasons end was over stocked  when the y/b's were put into the o/b section.  

[Taylorsloft]

i think we start to train to late. i am going to train my darkness young birds as soon as there kitted this year .and see how much i lose

[Guest cloudview]

a lot  of  yb,s  are  swept up  with training birds going  over  the  birds  flying area . i  know  a few  lads  who keep  yb,s  on atight leash , once  these have gone off with  a batch of trainers  , say  50 miles  away  there,s  nothing  left  in the tank  to get  them  home  again  .    on  a  different   method  another  chap i know  gives  his yb.s aquarter  feed  and  lets  them  out  for  5to6 hours  ,  roaming  , and lear ning   the local  area. he  does,nt   lose  many             food  for  thougt                

[just ask me]

sorry roland was talking about about some one elses reply sorry about that

[Roland]

Fine,

[Lennut Tar]

Fine,

 

Carn't you sleep Roland !!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;) :D

 

 

[THE PRIEST]

I think most of my own problems with young bird losses increased in 1984. This coincided with the introduction of the annual injection for P M V . Not sure weather this was a factor in the losses or weather it was because clashing became more frequent due to a lot of lofts turning to north road racing. In 1983 i started the young bird season with 12 young birds and finnished with 11 all where sent to 9 races as far as 250 mls. Now i am lucky to have 50% left half way through the young bird season. I have noticed that in my area if your young birds get past the first 4 races you usually have very few problems after this.

michael.

[Roland]

 

Carn't you sleep Roland !!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;) :D

 

Just going to work mucker ...

 

 

[blackjack]

I think birds bred from generations of untried birds the amount of birds that are proped up by anti biotics and the amount of birds sent that should have been culled long before they have seen a basket. I also think many people simply cannot spot problems or check for them like crop retention and they will not stop thier birds if this occurs or know what to do.

[Guest j v ward]

I think birds bred from generations of untried birds the amount of birds that are proped up by anti biotics and the amount of birds sent that should have been culled long before they have seen a basket. I also think many people simply cannot spot problems or check for them like crop retention and they will not stop thier birds if this occurs or know what to do.

 

yes i agree to many antibiotics used and incorect dosages given

[matt]

on the first yb race last year we had 30 ybs all we sent back within 30 mins of each other alot of people in the fed had massive losses some with 80 birds a friend of someone in our club sead they were all blown on the coast yet no one in are club had big losses if any at all so i think positioning and weather have a big role in yb losses but personaly i would put it down to people sending birds that are not 100% the person who had massive losses toped the west durham amal with old birds so must know what hes doing so maby im wrong its a mystery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lennut Tar]

Just going to work mucker ...

 

 

 

Gotcha !!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D I'm usually like a *expletive removed* on a rock (No one around) here. Middle of the day for me & I was surprised when I saw you drop in etc. Now I know why   :P .

Enjoy

 

 

[Back garden fancier]

I always lost 50 to 60% young birds, until last year when I started racing with 14 and ended with 12. The only difference was that for the first time ever I treated for Cocci and Canker every 2 weeks. Coincidence? Not sure, but I'll try it again.