Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped?

[ALF]

 

It would help -- unless you burn down your loft! ;D

 

I've been using the burner for a few years now Larry and it's a great help during the damp winter days

[REDCHEQHEN]

this has been put on before:

Laundry bleach is commonly diluted about 10 to 25-fold with tap water to about 2000 to 5000 parts per million of free available chlorine for use as an environmental surface disinfectant, without regard to the pH value of the diluted bleach. However, the pH value is very important for the antimicrobial effectiveness of bleach," says Norman Miner, a researcher on the study.

 

At alkaline pH values of about 8.5 or higher, more than 90 percent of the bleach is in the form of the chlorite ion (OCl-), which is relatively ineffective antimicrobially. At acidic pH values of about 6.8 or lower, more than 80 percent of the bleach is in the form of hypochlorite (HOCl). HOCl is about 80 to 200 times more antimicrobial than OCl-.

 

"Bleach is a much more effective antimicrobial chemical at an acidic pH value than at the alkaline Ph value at which bleach is manufactured and stored. A small amount of household vinegar is sufficient to lower the pH of bleach to an acidic range," says Miner.

 

Miner and his colleagues compared the ability of alkaline (pH 11) and acidified (pH 6) bleach dilutions to disinfect surfaces contaminated with dried bacterial spores, considered the most resistant to disinfectants of all microbes. The alkaline dilution was practically ineffective, killing all of the spores on only 2.5 percent of the surfaces after 20 minutes. During the same time period the acidified solution killed all of the spores on all of the surfaces.

 

"Diluted bleach at an alkaline pH is a relatively poor disinfectant, but acidified diluted bleach will virtually kill anything in 10 to 20 minutes," says Miner. "In the event of an emergency involving Bacillus anthracis spores contaminating such environmental surfaces as counter tops, desk and table tops, and floors, for example, virtually every household has a sporicidal sterilant available in the form of diluted, acidified bleach."

 

Miner recommends first diluting one cup of household bleach in one gallon of water and then adding one cup of white vinegar.

 

You need to wear a mask and keep loft well ventilated - as the fumes are awful !!

[jimmy_bulger]

vic,a large percentage of liverpool lofts have been vacinating against paratyphoid for a number of years now,those that have not seen its full affect on the birds probly think a bit of scaremongering goes on i think .

its not a nice thing to see.

hope your birds get back to full health soon mate.

jimmy

[Guest IB]

I found Redcheqhen's post on bleach interesting though puzzling as mixing chemicals isn't normally recommended.

 

Back in my Railway days, our Scientist actually tested cleaning agents used inside and outside trains - the solutions were given numbers rather than names - and labels of those accepted as safe for use by railway carraige cleaners would instruct 'not to be used with any other agent'.

 

However the post prompted me to check out the bleach I've been using outside the loft, 'Domestos' - the one that claims it kills all known germs - big big surprise, found its Sodium Hypochlorite (of Milton fame) 5% solution which makes it ph11 (alkaline).

 

Label also warns that it too is not to be mixed with any other substances as it will (could?) give off dangerous fumes - chlorine gas.

 

As a teenager I used to scrub the loft wooden floor with Domestos: sure does give off fumes on its own.  

 

 

 

 

[ALF]

DONT EVER EVER MIX CHEMICALS I WORK WITH THEM EVERY DAY AND I KNOW SOMEONE WHO LOST HIS EYES AFTER HE MIXED 2 TOGETHER AND THEY REACTED SO TAKE CARE AND DONT DO IT!!!

[Guest Vic]

vic,a large percentage of liverpool lofts have been vacinating against paratyphoid for a number of years now,those that have not seen its full affect on the birds probly think a bit of scaremongering goes on i think .

its not a nice thing to see.

hope your birds get back to full health soon mate.

jimmy

Thanks Jim for your remarks on the issue at hand. But I honestly do not think that the Paratyphoid vaccination was not as prevalent as you may think. I would venture to say, that perhaps only 2% of Merseyside  fliers injected, and these were only, because that they bought the dual purpose two Para solutions in the one phial. Where  and how did my birds become infected? Simply from the remaining 98% who hadn't used the combi solution. Vic.    

 

 

[Guest Vic]

Hi you guys. As regarding which probiotic I decided to use! Throughout the last few years I have been buying some additives from the USA, including what is called  a Vita pro Combi  mix of pro biotics. This is now being sold in the Uk @ £6.50 per sachet  which should, normally last half a season at least.  Does Dr. Larry think that by using this, I am still on the right lines. Incidentally the water turns yelow on application, as most "cures" do.  

[johnny11]

Hi guys

 

sorry not been keeping on this thread. My guy at the Uni who is working on Chicken Salmonella said the best way is to use Virkon s as a disinfectant on th eloft and then burn it dry. Keep all utensils as clean as possible. He says there is no way of eradicating this as there are so many carriers, he says that it is best to cull any showing signs. Vaccination will only cover that variant of salmonella so what is the point of vaccinating when we dont know what strain we get.

 

On another note has anyone or does anyone use colostrum or beastings???  probably best probiotic known to the animal kingdom

[ALF]

Hi guys

 

sorry not been keeping on this thread. My guy at the Uni who is working on Chicken Salmonella said the best way is to use Virkon s as a disinfectant on th eloft and then burn it dry. Keep all utensils as clean as possible. He says there is no way of eradicating this as there are so many carriers, he says that it is best to cull any showing signs. Vaccination will only cover that variant of salmonella so what is the point of vaccinating when we dont know what strain we get.

 

On another note has anyone or does anyone use colostrum or beastings???  probably best probiotic known to the animal kingdom

 

TELL US MORE JOHN I'M REALLY INTERESTED MATE

 

ALAN

 

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

or go to farmers and buy it in powder form mix youerself   like colour

[johnny11]

Basically Alf its the first milk that comes from animals when they have just had their offspring it provides the young with all the nutrients and immunity needed in early life.

 

Frank Tasker uses it

 

I get it freeze it into cubes and place one in a drinker once a week

 

John

[jimmy_bulger]

http://mrtylelofts.com/vet9.htm

[jimmy_bulger]

sorry;   http://myrtlelofts.com/vet9.htm

[Guest IB]

Surely we have our own pigeon colostrum? Pigeon milk. Does exactly the same thing except better, made by pigeons, for pigeons.

 

Research papers on it suggest that it's the most nutritious feed on the planet, and recommend it be fed to poultry?

 

On a more specific note: the pigeons have this from birth. If their immune system cannot cope after their own seeding with their own colostrum, then as Johny11's Uni guy suggests, and other sources I've already quoted also suggest, its not cow's colostrum etc that sick birds should be given, they should be culled - that is a proven way to stamp out disease.

 

 

[frank1]

By John Kazmierczak, DVM

PrimaLac is a probiotic that has been in commercial and private use for several years. It has

proved useful in control and prevention of several diseases in poultry, among which are E.coli

and Salmonella infections. Other benefits are enhanced growth, better feed digestion and

utilization, along with better feather quality.

PrimaLac stands out from other probiotics because universities and other qualified research

facilities have tested, documented, and demonstrated its usefulness and health benefits. Also, it

has been shown to withstand extremes in temperature and humidity and remains stable up to a

year after its container is opened. Its unique formulation ensures that a large portion of what is

ingested actually gets into the bowel or GI tract and is not destroyed in the crop or stomach.

Therefore, its desired effect is achieved.

It is worthwhile to mention what a “probiotic†is. Probiotic is a term which means “for lifeâ€.

Probiotics such as PrimaLac are live sources of friendly bacteria that are ingested as a

supplemental aid to promote health, growth, and disease resistance. PrimaLac’s desired effect is

achieved through adding it to the drinking water. The mechanism of action is to crowd out the

bad bacteria, i.e., E. coli or Salmonella and occupy the lining of the intestinal tract (bowel). It

also enhances bowel function by promoting a healthy bowel lining to promote absorption of

nutrients, produce immunoglobulins (proteins used to fight disease) and make the bowel slightly

more acid. Bad bacteria such as E. coli and Salmonella don’t thrive in acid environments. It’s

little wonder the use of probiotics is found to be beneficial to help our pigeons ward off disease.

In choosing a probiotic, be sure to check the label for the type and amount of organisms present

to insure stability of the product, especially in extreme temperatures or extreme environmental

conditions. Also, it should have been tested by a university or qualified researcher to document

its usefulness. There are many probiotics for sale and one should carefully look for background

data before purchasing for efficacy.

In my own loft of several hundred pigeons, I have noticed many definite, beneficial effects from

using PrimaLac for over a year:

• Young bird mortality after weaning is almost “zeroâ€. This has not happened in the past.

• Fertility improved, there were less clear eggs, and the young birds grew and developed

well.

• No young birds developed Adeno, Circo, Pox, or Herpes viral infections for the first time

ever. In the past, despite Pox vaccination, some birds always developed “Pox sores†or

lesions.

• There were fewer young bird losses in training and racing.

• Fewer pigeons developed E. coli or Salmonella infections.

• Overall feather quality improved.

• Droppings are round and firm.

• PrimaLac can be used with vitamins and most other supplements.

• PrimaLac can be put in the bath water.

• PrimaLac can be used with canker and coccidia medicines.

• Antibiotic usage decreased, thus reducing the development of resistant strains of bacteria

and lowering the cost of antibiotic use.

• Feed consumption decreased.

I have found it an especially useful disease preventative in damp, cold and hot, humid weather,

where bacterial and yeast infections thrive. In-depth discussions with several fanciers have

indicated that they too felt it was quite beneficial as a health aid for their pigeons.

Overall, I have observed no negative side effects from its use, and feel it is a real benefit to help

keep our pigeons healthy.

[DOVEScot]

By John Kazmierczak, DVM

PrimaLac is a probiotic that has been in commercial and private use for several years. It has

proved useful in control and prevention of several diseases in poultry, among which are E.coli

and Salmonella infections. Other benefits are enhanced growth, better feed digestion and

utilization, along with better feather quality.

PrimaLac stands out from other probiotics because universities and other qualified research

facilities have tested, documented, and demonstrated its usefulness and health benefits. Also, it

has been shown to withstand extremes in temperature and humidity and remains stable up to a

year after its container is opened. Its unique formulation ensures that a large portion of what is

ingested actually gets into the bowel or GI tract and is not destroyed in the crop or stomach.

Therefore, its desired effect is achieved.

It is worthwhile to mention what a “probiotic†is. Probiotic is a term which means “for lifeâ€.

Probiotics such as PrimaLac are live sources of friendly bacteria that are ingested as a

supplemental aid to promote health, growth, and disease resistance. PrimaLac’s desired effect is

achieved through adding it to the drinking water. The mechanism of action is to crowd out the

bad bacteria, i.e., E. coli or Salmonella and occupy the lining of the intestinal tract (bowel). It

also enhances bowel function by promoting a healthy bowel lining to promote absorption of

nutrients, produce immunoglobulins (proteins used to fight disease) and make the bowel slightly

more acid. Bad bacteria such as E. coli and Salmonella don’t thrive in acid environments. It’s

little wonder the use of probiotics is found to be beneficial to help our pigeons ward off disease.

In choosing a probiotic, be sure to check the label for the type and amount of organisms present

to insure stability of the product, especially in extreme temperatures or extreme environmental

conditions. Also, it should have been tested by a university or qualified researcher to document

its usefulness. There are many probiotics for sale and one should carefully look for background

data before purchasing for efficacy.

In my own loft of several hundred pigeons, I have noticed many definite, beneficial effects from

using PrimaLac for over a year:

• Young bird mortality after weaning is almost “zeroâ€. This has not happened in the past.

• Fertility improved, there were less clear eggs, and the young birds grew and developed

well.

• No young birds developed Adeno, Circo, Pox, or Herpes viral infections for the first time

ever. In the past, despite Pox vaccination, some birds always developed “Pox sores†or

lesions.

• There were fewer young bird losses in training and racing.

• Fewer pigeons developed E. coli or Salmonella infections.

• Overall feather quality improved.

• Droppings are round and firm.

• PrimaLac can be used with vitamins and most other supplements.

• PrimaLac can be put in the bath water.

• PrimaLac can be used with canker and coccidia medicines.

• Antibiotic usage decreased, thus reducing the development of resistant strains of bacteria

and lowering the cost of antibiotic use.

• Feed consumption decreased.

I have found it an especially useful disease preventative in damp, cold and hot, humid weather,

where bacterial and yeast infections thrive. In-depth discussions with several fanciers have

indicated that they too felt it was quite beneficial as a health aid for their pigeons.

Overall, I have observed no negative side effects from its use, and feel it is a real benefit to help

keep our pigeons healthy.

 

I found this after reading your post

 

http://dclofts.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1220550749/

[Larry Lucas]

Hi you guys. As regarding which probiotic I decided to use! Throughout the last few years I have been buying some additives from the USA, including what is called  a Vita pro Combi  mix of pro biotics. This is now being sold in the Uk @ £6.50 per sachet  which should, normally last half a season at least.  Does Dr. Larry think that by using this, I am still on the right lines. Incidentally the water turns yelow on application, as most "cures" do.  

 

Vic, with Vita Pro Combo Mike Ganus has produced a combination of probiotics, electrolytes, vitamins and amino acids. It will be helpful for your birds, but I cannot say whether or not the probiotics are avian specific as is PrimaLac. It will probably do the job for you.

[Larry Lucas]

 

I've been using the burner for a few years now Larry and it's a great help during the damp winter days

 

Just joking, Alf. I think using a torch is one of the best things that can be done to kill off the bad beasties.

[johnny11]

Hi Larry

 

You are correct in your statement but as evidence has proved you cannot get everything with the torch. The best way is wet the area then dry it and then you have  better idea on the areas you have missed.

 

John

[sammy]

slightly dampen the floor with cheap bleach and use a scrubber to work it in leave it for about 5/10 minutes then use a blow torch on it and see how clean your floor comes up ,use it on wooden floor grills as well the bleach draws out all stains etc and kills lots of nasties and the bleqach only costs pennies ,being doing thisfor years with no problems in loft ,onlything is wear a mask  

[Guest IB]

Vaccination will only cover that variant of salmonella so what is the point of vaccinating when we dont know what strain we get.

 

I replied to your views on eradication (culling) and colostrum earlier. I'd like to pick-up on this bit of your post.

 

At first glance, what is said appears true, but if it was, it would completely rubbish our current understanding of how vaccination actually works.

 

Vaccination was first discovered after one village doctor noticed while folk all around them in the same village died of smallpox, certain milk maids never even got sick with it. What they did get sick with was cowpox, and it was meeting that version of the disease

that had 'programmed their immune system' to meet and beat the greater challenge of smallpox, which was a deadly disease in Britain in those days, while nowadays its ... unknown?

 

We also have veterinary advice on maintaining background levels of cocci and trichomonas in our pigeons, based on the same understanding. There are numerous strains of each parasite, some more deadly than others. But 'programming their immune system' by constant exposure to low levels of these weaker strains, ensures immunity against any of the deadlier ones, should they ever meet them.

 

What I would add, is that vaccination effect does depend on the size of the challenge, and I think this is maybe what your Uni contact is saying. If a vaccinated bird became heavily infected then I believe it would fall ill with the disease, (but recover, rather than die?) I think you will find that warning on the leaflet accompanying these vaccines?

 

Vaccination is another way of 'eradicating' disease from groups of animals. The pathogens are still with us, but they cannot infect due to immunity.

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

this thread is goldmine of info to novices well done you all

[Larry Lucas]

How are they doing, Vic? Recovered?

[Guest Vic]

How are they doing, Vic? Recovered?

Sorry Larry, I haven't looked in on the Health slot lately. It seems the treatment has done a great job on them, and they are now really looking the part. I had a feeling there was something wrong with them during the racing season, as I could not get them on form, whatever I tried. They looked well, but there was something not quite there, if you know what I mean.  I am indeed grateful  to yourself and Gord for your assistance on the issue. Thanks again. Vic.  

 

 

[Tony C]

Any noticeable frets show up in their flights Vic as I've heard it can knock a pigeon back for a day or two.

 

Hope you've got it sorted, many can learn through your experience.