Guest IB Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Baytril was banned in the USA in 2005 from use in poultry. Pigeons are not classified as poultry. Periodically this happens with a number of drugs as they are abused by farmers, ranchers, and food producers i.g., Corid (amprolium, a coccidiostat). But on occasion they come back on the market, as did Corid. Enrofloxacin is readily available and is far cheaper than the brand name Baytril. Recent study shows that Baytril can cause cartilage damage in some classes of young developing animals (dogs, etc), but NOT in pigeons. The treatment of sick pigeons or carrier pigeons for Salmonella is not considered prophylactic but disease erradication. For what it is worth. In a previous post you told us the active ingredient in Parastop. Contrary to what has been pushed from the very beginning, that Parastop is a vaccine, your post reveals that it is nothing of the sort - it is an antibiotic. From the thread, it is clear that Parastop has to be given regularly, every 6 months? It is unclear whether these doses have to be preceded by the other antibiotic mentioned, Baytril. I think that would be called 'prophylactic treatment' in anyone's book. It is also widely recognised that this irresponsible and indiscriminate use of antibiotics to keep healthy animals 'healthy' (without first establishing that the organism being treated for is present, or that it is susceptible to the antibiotic given) is the root cause of drug-resistance in organisms.. Parastop is not licensed for use in the UK, and Baytril is a POM. You are therefore advocating people here break the Law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 In a previous post you told us the active ingredient in Parastop. Contrary to what has been pushed from the very beginning, that Parastop is a vaccine, your post reveals that it is nothing of the sort - it is an antibiotic. From the thread, it is clear that Parastop has to be given regularly, every 6 months? It is unclear whether these doses have to be preceded by the other antibiotic mentioned, Baytril. I think that would be called 'prophylactic treatment' in anyone's book. It is also widely recognised that this irresponsible and indiscriminate use of antibiotics to keep healthy animals 'healthy' (without first establishing that the organism being treated for is present, or that it is susceptible to the antibiotic given) is the root cause of drug-resistance in organisms.. Parastop is not licensed for use in the UK, and Baytril is a POM. You are therefore advocating people here break the Law. WHAT A BLOODY POSTING? I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank1 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Salm-o-bloc A natural resistance enhancement for paratyphoid, to put in water. 1lb NO ANTIBIOTICS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank1 Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 Disease of the Digestive tract: Salmonellosis (Paratyphoid): Pathogen: Given the right conditions, the bacterium can remain infective in the environment for 1 year or more. Salmonellae are spread by: Inhalation of dust containing the pathogen - Contaminated feed (insects, mice, rats) - dirty feed troughs and water bowls - mating - transmission from the hen to the egg - feeding the nestlings with infected crop milk and billing. Chronic Carriers: Pigeons that appear healthy after surviving salmonella infection, but shed the pathogen at irregular intervals and thus pose a risk to the current flock and their progeny. Clinical signs: Acute form: (mainly affects young pigeons) Enteritis with pulpy, mucoid, greenish droppings, once organs (liver, kidneys, spleen) have been infected, there is growth retardation, emaciation and death. Embryos infected with salmonellae frequently die in ovo or during the first few days of life. Chronic form: (mainly affects adult pigeons) Inflammation causes a thickening of the joints, especially the elbow joint, wing or leg lameness, disorders of balance and torsion of the neck. Recognition of the Disease: Bacteriological examination of faecal and/or organ samples. An antibiogram is performed to determine which medication is suitable for treatment purposes. Similar conditions: Paramyxovirus infection, Ornithosis, Coccidiosis, worm infestation, organ form of Trichomoniasis. Treatment: Upon appearance of the symptoms described, treatment with Chloramphenicol-N should be started immediately. In some cases it is necessary to change the treatment to Ampicillin-T when the results of the bacteriological examination and antibiogram become available. You may also treat with Furazolidon Plus capsules which works very well if this is your drug of choice. To treat with Furazolidon Plus capsules, give 1 capsule a day for 7-10 days. At the end of this regiment give liviferm capsules 1 a day for 2 -3 days following the Furazolidon Plus treatment. Most of the time it is better to treat the entire flock rather than individual birds. Cull severely affected pigeons before beginning the treatment since it is unlikely that they can be cured. Treatment plan for Chloramphenicol-N. Treatment plan for Ampicillin T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Lucas Posted September 29, 2008 Report Share Posted September 29, 2008 In a previous post you told us the active ingredient in Parastop. Contrary to what has been pushed from the very beginning, that Parastop is a vaccine, your post reveals that it is nothing of the sort - it is an antibiotic. From the thread, it is clear that Parastop has to be given regularly, every 6 months? It is unclear whether these doses have to be preceded by the other antibiotic mentioned, Baytril. I think that would be called 'prophylactic treatment' in anyone's book. It is also widely recognised that this irresponsible and indiscriminate use of antibiotics to keep healthy animals 'healthy' (without first establishing that the organism being treated for is present, or that it is susceptible to the antibiotic given) is the root cause of drug-resistance in organisms.. Parastop is not licensed for use in the UK, and Baytril is a POM. You are therefore advocating people here break the Law. If you read the posts above you will discover Parastop was never discussed as a vaccine. It is an antibiotic and in one of the posts I noted the "family" of antibiotics to which it belongs. If there is confusion about this, it appears to be your part. You will also note that I am not prescribing, but describing what works and recommending a proven approach that is in the right case in the best interest of the birds -- an entirely different approach, I think you would agree. If you wish to keep pigeons and not race them and practice biohazard protocol, then a non-medical approach such as you advocate is a good way to go. But if one is interested in exchanging birds, buying in new birds to the colony, racing pigeons, transporting them with other pigeons, having fanciers into your loft wearing the shoes they use in their own loft, etc., then it is naive to think occasional medically proven support for the pigeons is unnecessary. You will note a leading veterinarian in this discussion concurs. Antiobiotics properly utilized at the right time and for the right reasons have their place, as do other medicines. Randomly using them on hearsay and uninformed advice is not wise -- but advocating a non-medical "anti-medicine" approach that is not scientifically proven is not merely ill-advised, but often cruel to the birds that we are asking to function in an equally non-natural event: pigeon racing. I have neither the time or intention of getting into a "tit-for-tat" discussion with you about proven and safe medical treatment of racing pigeons. I could be mistaken but it appears you are part of the "anti-antibiotics" brigade. If that is your perspective, I wish you well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 If you read the posts above you will discover Parastop was never discussed as a vaccine. It is an antibiotic and in one of the posts I noted the "family" of antibiotics to which it belongs. If there is confusion about this, it appears to be your part. ..... Apologies for that. I certainly did pick up (wrongly) that Parastop was the vaccination, not Sal-Bac. I have neither the time or intention of getting into a "tit-for-tat" discussion with you about proven and safe medical treatment of racing pigeons. I could be mistaken but it appears you are part of the "anti-antibiotics" brigade. If that is your perspective, I wish you well. Larry, the points I made were relevant to the overall theme of this thread and not aimed at you specifically. It is worth noting that this is an International forum and advice which is right and proper in one country may be less so in another. According to UK Veterinary Medicines Directorate website, neither Parastop nor Sal-bac are mentioned as medicines authorised for use here. Baytril is also prescription only which according to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, means that the animal must be under veterinary care before the vet prescribes it. If I am part of any brigade, it is 'the safe and ethical use of medicines' brigade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 im shocked that this thread has been going for so long lol. everyone has their notion on wot to use and wot not to use. the main area that needs to be mentioned is that....if medication is used for ANY illnesses then do it sparingly . vets advise the countrys legalising athorities to ban/use wot medications they wish too....how else would they know about medications. so if decided that medications should only be prescribed ,then its obvious that u have to visit the vets that advise the medication to be prescribed...thus the vets having their cake and eating it with creme!!! lets be fair how many times have u stuck to the prescriptions and nothing has worked for u ,then to take ur birds back to the vet then for them to prescribe a stronger dose...more money. im not saying all vets are money motivated because i know some good vets but there will be those that are! paratyphoid is more widespread then people beleive and will carry on spreading,its one of those diseases that hides and shows itself when u dont expect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Lucas Posted September 30, 2008 Report Share Posted September 30, 2008 Apologies for that. I certainly did pick up (wrongly) that Parastop was the vaccination, not Sal-Bac. Larry, the points I made were relevant to the overall theme of this thread and not aimed at you specifically. It is worth noting that this is an International forum and advice which is right and proper in one country may be less so in another. According to UK Veterinary Medicines Directorate website, neither Parastop nor Sal-bac are mentioned as medicines authorised for use here. Baytril is also prescription only which according to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, means that the animal must be under veterinary care before the vet prescribes it. If I am part of any brigade, it is 'the safe and ethical use of medicines' brigade. IB, thanks for the apology -- that is big of you and I appreciate it. As people from numerous countries post here, I think you would agree that it is not the responsibility of non-UK people to find out what is, or is not, legally permitted in veterinary care in the UK. It is the responsibility of local fanciers to know their own laws and restrictions and abide by them -- and to seek out proper veterinary care. I would hope you would also agree that what I have posted above is "safe and ethical" as it stems from consultations with avian veterinarians and university research medical professionals. As a pragmatic matter, and not to insult any good veterinarian, it is also true that pigeon fanciers in general know more about the diseases and care of pigeons than the average veterinary practitioner. Unless their vet is an avian specialist or a pigeon fancier, more often than not they must inform the dog or horse vet as to what should be done and which tests should be ordered. A forum such as this one; Pigeon Chat, and Alberta Classic provides valuable information on such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Hi, There Guys! I would like to keep the interested parties in touch with present happenings. After just over half the course of Baytril treatment, they were innoculated today with Salmo PT (Dr van der Sluis). paratyphoid vaccine. Everything going well. Nothing dropped dead yet! Vic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Lucas Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Good job, Vic. When they are finished with the treatment four or five days of probiotics will be an immense help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Glad to hear things seem to be going well with the treatment and thanks for keeping us updated good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDYELLOW Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 hi read an article a few days ago stating that the loft in question vaccinated prior to breeding with Parastop for paratyphoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDYELLOW Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 parastop by BELGICA DE WEERD http://www.regencylofts.com/acatalog/form5.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 hi read an article a few days ago stating that the loft in question vaccinated prior to breeding with Parastop for paratyphoid I see confused.com applies to others as well as me. According to the info given earlier in this thread, parastop isn't a vaccine, its an antibiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDYELLOW Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 might be only a tablet / powder form here but may be a vaccine in Belguim or author has it wrong , intresting thread tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy white Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Cards on the table time surely! There are far too many phonies in this game of ours, that will never reveal, anything within their lofts , be it good or bad. Who ever would reveal any infections whatsoever in their loft, if like some, have a ludicrous return on the selling of pigeons. Shooting oneself in the foot comes to mind! They also reveal themselves by the way, with numereous videos and dvd's with only 50% of truthness. More to come. never a truer word spoken ,,[someone at my door answer shortly ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Don't open it Jim! It maybe one of the big fat greedy wolves. that thrive on PIGEON CHAT. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 and.....................................they can blow. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 The main treatment has finished, now on the pro-biotics for 10 days continually. one or two droppings not up to standard. will keep all informed to the end , good or bad. Vic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Lucas Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Good luck, Vic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry mccarthy Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 parastop is a antibiotic nothing else and in my opinion a poor substute to fural para injections do nothing im afraid i used the pmv and youngbird sickness vaccine annd did it stop yb sickness no best treatment for paratythoid is fural baytrill colitrine enroxill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Bit late, mate. Don.t you think, Vic has taken the bulls by their horns this time. I do honestly believe, that I am heliping others out . Oh! For the good old days. When we had a bit of canker etc, now and then. Since, we have needled them, our problems have increased, and some wallets have gone fatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 All birds looking immaculate presently.Two wet perches. Loose droppings! Why? Maybe because of the the treatment. I'll sort it, one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMaidment08 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 scotch mist methinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy rogers Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 CAN IT BE STOPPED? WELL UNFORTUNATELY IT CANNOT! But what can be done is for us all to take a look at trying to understand it, how it and when it comes about and what we can do to try to reduce its chances of ruining a family of racing pigeons.The DVD by Henk de Weerdt goes a long way in allowing us to see how, why and when this severe bacterial infection strikes within a loft.Its not about laziness or the feeding of cheap foods.On the DVD he shows us a pigeon suffering from paratyphoid and what happens when a fancier allows it to infiltrate a loft of pigeons and go untreated. One word gentlemen DEATH. There is time now to get ready for the 2009 season, listen to this knowledgeable vets advice and soon after the moult is finished get them treat and then vaccinate against it, yes I hear your cry's of what another injection? but in my opinion this is more important than paramyxo. Q.When you started racing this season where you 20-25minutes behind? and as the races got longer your birds went even further behind, yes you treat them with everything under the kitchen sink? yeah! they were still behind were'nt they?Why did they not respond to treatment? simply because they were carrying parathyphus in their bloodstream.Listen lads do it right get the DVD (thanks to Dave Allen for a wonderful, factual promotion) get the products and get back on the winners table.RR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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