Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped?

[Tony C]

http://www.internationalmodenaclub.com/The%20Doctors%20Corner/diagnosis.htm#Salmonellosis%20(paratyphoid)

 

Worth a look. Check out Streptococcus Infection which is doing the rounds.

[Larry Lucas]

http://www.internationalmodenaclub.com/The%20Doctors%20Corner/diagnosis.htm#Salmonellosis%20(paratyphoid)

 

Worth a look. Check out Streptococcus Infection which is doing the rounds.

 

Tony, dead right! Streptococcus Bovis can give exactly the same symptoms as Paratyphoid, and Baytril is not the drug of choice. It takes a antibiotic like Tetracycline (or others) to do the job -- although there is about a 40% resistance to Tetracycline. Lab tests and antibiotic screening is suggested.

[ch pied]

Now, C'mon youse Guys. Is Vic the only one who puts his cards on the table? Mark my words, if nightmares are happening to me, Keep your cards close to your chest, because I could never, ever,ever,  imagine or even dream of a worse pigeon scenario.  

vic , my bird's have never had the old sam & ella and with a bit of luck i will try to keep it that way , i know preventive is a bad word in this day & age in regard to med's , but i have found this a necessary evil , i use FURALTADONE 98% PURE at 1gm-1gallon water for 10 day's , the  water is boiled and left to cool , to this i add rondisole 10% at 5gm-1ltr , yes a double bumper , 1 to supress verious strain's of para , e, coli , the other for canker & the hanger's on that feed of it , this treatment is given 1 month before pair up and after last race for young & old , no other med's are given in between , unless the microscope indicates that a treatment for some ailment is required , the only stuff added to water is iodine or acv , multi-vits , i have vaccine for paratypoid , but have never had cause to use it ,

 

[Guest Vic]

Davy, thanks for the info, very interesting indeed. But as I stated prevously, I am going for Dr Larrys solution, do or die.  Cheers Vic.

[superstar]

Told you Vic, Parastop and Belgafox. Never mind all this hero worship, mail that vet and have a chat with him he will sort you out and stop deaths that could and should be stopped

[Larry Lucas]

Told you Vic, . . . Never mind all this hero worship, . . .

 

Odd that, from someone who calls themself "Superstar"! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Vic is on a good path with good advice from Dr. Gord. Hang in there, Vic, good days are ahead.

 

[ch pied]

 

Your scenario certainly presents like Paratyphoid. Fortunately, culling our proven breeders is no longer necessary as the first resort. If the bacteria screening shows its effectiveness, we can treat with an Enrofloxacin class of drugs (Baytril, Cipro), cure the bird and nip the potential carrier state in the bud. The only time I would cull a good breeder these days is if the ST strain it carried was not sensitive to Baytril -- and even then if it was an outstanding breeder I would treat with Parastop prior to breeding and let it breed a round or two. If its youngsters from the first nest died, I would cull it then. Just another opinion and another way of doing things. By the way, I would only experiment with this in a separate breeding pen away from my breeder loft.

PARASTOP , larry can you inform me on the make-up of parastop , as iam at at a loss to find any info on the contents of this product , not being a fancier to blind treat

 

[Simeon Turner]

PARASTOP , larry can you inform me on the make-up of parastop , as iam at at a loss to find any info on the contents of this product , not being a fancier to blind treat

 

From memory I think that  PARASTOP   is made up of Sulfamethazole and Trimethoprin.

 

Hope this helps

 

[superstar]

 

Odd that, from someone who calls themself "Superstar"! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Vic is on a good path with good advice from Dr. Gord. Hang in there, Vic, good days are ahead.

 

Not odd at all Larry, it has nothing to do with hero worship or the like it stems back to the good old CB radio days here in England and my old "CB handle" which was same as the radio I used at the time, a superstar 360. My son John actually sugested I use it for other sites on the computer long before this one and if I'm a hero to him that will do for me! So you see it is possible that you can bark up the wrong tree isnt it. Oh and the Vet I sugested Vic contact is one of the worlds finest on the subject of pigeons, a shame he didnt as it seems very good pigeons have died. I'm sure you know Henk anyway Larry or at least of his reputation towards pigeon treatments so wouldn't of been a bad idea would it? Lets hope he gets it sorted for the sake of the birds that I'm sure you will agree on

 

 

 

                                                                                                               Mark.

[Larry Lucas]

PARASTOP , larry can you inform me on the make-up of parastop , as iam at at a loss to find any info on the contents of this product , not being a fancier to blind treat

 

Norfloxacin is the active ingredient in Parastop. It is in the same "family" of drugs as ciprofloxacin hydrochloride (Cipro) and enrofloxacin (Baytril).

[Larry Lucas]

 

Not odd at all Larry, it has nothing to do with hero worship or the like it stems back to the good old CB radio days here in England and my old "CB handle" which was same as the radio I used at the time, a superstar 360. My son John actually sugested I use it for other sites on the computer long before this one and if I'm a hero to him that will do for me! So you see it is possible that you can bark up the wrong tree isnt it. Oh and the Vet I sugested Vic contact is one of the worlds finest on the subject of pigeons, a shame he didnt as it seems very good pigeons have died. I'm sure you know Henk anyway Larry or at least of his reputation towards pigeon treatments so wouldn't of been a bad idea would it? Lets hope he gets it sorted for the sake of the birds that I'm sure you will agree on

 

                                                                                                               Mark.

 

Mark, sorry if I offended. It was an attempt at a good-natured ribbing. CB radio -- now there is a blast from the past. Also, I didn't read where you recommended Henk to Vic, but I agree he is a good choice. Your suggestion in another of Parastop is also a good one -- it is used quite a bit in Europe for Paratyphoid.

 

 

[Larry Lucas]

PARASTOP , larry can you inform me on the make-up of parastop , as iam at at a loss to find any info on the contents of this product , not being a fancier to blind treat

 

Norfloxacin is the active ingredient in Parastop. It is in the same "family" of drugs as ciprofloxacin hydrochloride (Cipro) and enrofloxacin (Baytril).

[Larry Lucas]

Vic asked that the email from Dr. Gordon Chalmers, DVM be posted here. Gord would like to preface this by saying the advice is directed to Vic's situation only and may not apply to your own loft. Also, he asked that it be noted some recent changes have been made to SalBac to make it safer and some of the cautions below may not apply.

 

Hello Vic:  The sudden death of a few Old birds + the need to kill so many YBs does suggest the possibility of paratyphoid in all of these birds.  I hope you understand that this is a guesstimate based on your findings and the fact that I haven't examined your birds myself.  If you have the 10% Baytril solution, use a teaspoon to a teaspoon and a half for 4 liters of water for 10 days, possibly 14 days as suggested by Larry.  It is the best drug so far in dealing with paratyphoid and by far the best in clearing out infections in any carrier birds in the loft.  Once you've treated you could use SalBac if you like, but I will add some warnings about it and how it should be used.  Also any time you treat birds with an antibiotic, always put them on a good probiotic for several days afterward to restore some normal friendly bacteria to the intestines, since treatments often destroy the good with the bad.  I use one called PrimaLac, now available in the UK through Dave Hawkins who can be contacted at this Email address: Hwkyhawkins@aol.com if you are interested.  Also one called Flight Path is said to be good.  Ian Cameron may be able to help with that one.

 

Info on SalBac from a veterinary friend in the USA:

 

1) NEVER freeze and thaw this product - it's dangerous to use afterward;

2) Warm the vaccine before use;

3) Use 0.25 cc (1/4 cc) per bird rather than 0.5 cc (1/2 cc) and you will have fewer problems;

4) Don't inject in the neck - use the fold of skin between the leg and the breast muscle and inject under the skin but NOT in the breast muscle;

5) Vaccinate at Day 0, then again at 30 days and then every 6 months;

6) Each time, bring the birds into better condition prior to vaccination with a higher protein ration - feed safflower, peanuts, hemp, etc. for a number of days ahead - the risk is minimized this way;

7) Use antibiotics like Bactrim (2 tablespoons per US gallon for 4-5 days before and 4-5 days after vaccination);

8) Pick a good day to vaccinate - don't vaccinate in extreme weather conditions, either very hot or very cold.  If you have to vaccinate on such days, take the birds indoors and hold them for a few days.

 

Hope these few thoughts help!  Very best wishes, Gordon.

[Tony C]

Thanks re the PrimaLac I'm awaiting a reply from them whether Its available in the UK.

[Larry Lucas]

Thanks re the PrimaLac I'm awaiting a reply from them whether Its available in the UK.

 

Tony, PrimaLac is available in the UK from Dave Hawkins. You can contact him at Hwkyhawkins@aol.com

[Tony C]

Thanks Larry, have emailed and had a prompt reply.

[superstar]

 

Mark, sorry if I offended. It was an attempt at a good-natured ribbing. CB radio -- now there is a blast from the past. Also, I didn't read where you recommended Henk to Vic, but I agree he is a good choice. Your suggestion in another of Parastop is also a good one -- it is used quite a bit in Europe for Paratyphoid.

 

 

Larry no offence taken and sorry for the lack of smilies on my post but for some reason they dont work on my computer? Also you wouldnt of read a post about contacting Henk as it was done in a PM, so my fault there as it wasn't a public posting, it was aimed at helping Vic to get what I feel is first class treatment for his birds in what is a terrible situation for bird and fancier alike. I have read your posts with great interest and can tell you are also a very knowledgable gentleman and if you found my comments a little off please except my sincere appologies as my only concern was treatment for the birds and as soon as possible. Not sure what you think on this Larry but have noticed from both myself and others using this product that after treatment with parastop of YB's you never seem to be troubled by young bird sickness even though it has been rife in many lofts in the area? Have you heard of others with such experience as this or do you think we have just been lucky?

 

                                               Mark

[xtccock]

well done to vic getting a reply from gordon, i didnt n have been waiting over two weeks(what) by normal email/ snailmail

[Larry Lucas]

. . . Not sure what you think on this Larry but have noticed from both myself and others using this product that after treatment with parastop of YB's you never seem to be troubled by young bird sickness even though it has been rife in many lofts in the area? Have you heard of others with such experience as this or do you think we have just been lucky?

 

                                               Mark

 

Mark, it has been quite some time since I used Parastop and the last time I used it was for a pre-breeding treatment. I haven't heard from anyone else about the ybs connection, but if true it would certainly be a blessing.

 

[Guest Vic]

May I take this opportunity, to thank all those that contributed to the above unfortunate subject, with special thanks to Larry and Gord. Two brilliant pigeon men.  I sicerely hope to have the treatment sorted before  November, and I will keep Basic members informed of the outcomings. Thanks again, Vic.

[superstar]

Vic I hope you soon have this problem sorted as I'm sure everyone does. Another product that can help stem the spread of this problem is stalosanF, not cheap to buy but an excelent loft treatment which kills all viruses and bacteria including salmonella. I'm sure a simple weekly dusting of loft floors and surfaces will help no end.

[DOVEScot]

Vic I hope you soon have this problem sorted as I'm sure everyone does. Another product that can help stem the spread of this problem is stalosanF, not cheap to buy but an excelent loft treatment which kills all viruses and bacteria including salmonella. I'm sure a simple weekly dusting of loft floors and surfaces will help no end.

 

That is what we use, excellent stuff,

 

cheapest by post so far :-/

 

Single bags

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=230289484990

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=130257285342

 

More than one bag as only one postage

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=310087037795

[frank1]

Name: Enrofloxacin   (Baytril)

Description: Enrofloxacin is a synthetic chemotherapeutic agent from the quinolone class of drugs. It has antibactericidal activity against a broad spectrum of gram + and gram - bacteria.  It is rapidly absorbed and penetrates all body tissues well.

Usage: Enrofloxacin can be used with any bacterial infection showing susceptibility to the drug.

Adverse reactions: Enrofloxacin causes increased mortality in the egg when the hen is treated during egg formation. It will cause cartilage abnormalities in growing squabs, especially during the 1st week to 10 days of age. This. however, is not always seen.

Dosage: 5 - 10 mg/bird divided daily for 7 - 14 days. 150 - 600 mg/gallon for 7 - 14 days.

Comments: Probably the best drug we have for the gram - infections of pigeons. It is the only drug shown to prevent recurrence of shedding in most cases of salmonella infection at 6 mg/pound for 10 days. We assume that this means the carrier state has been eliminated in these birds. The liquid water soluble form is not yet approved for use in the U.S. Because of the base used in the tablets, they are not soluble in water by any means.

[Guest IB]

An interesting post.

 

I know that the use of Baytril is banned in America for use in food animals, due to concerns over drug-resistant organisms being transmitted to humans.

 

I know that Beyer don't want it used as a prophylactic, or when Salmonella is present.

 

What I didn't know was that Baytril damaged cartilage. Another reason for limping, dropped wings perhaps?

[Larry Lucas]

An interesting post.

 

Baytril is banned in America for use in food animals, due to concerns over drug-resistant organisms being transmitted to humans.

 

I know that Beyer don't want it used as a prophylactic, or when Salmonella is present.

 

What I didn't know was that Baytril damaged cartilage. Another reason for limping, dropped wings perhaps?

 

Baytril was banned in the USA in 2005 from use in poultry. Pigeons are not classified as poultry. Periodically this happens with a number of drugs as they are abused by farmers, ranchers, and food producers i.g., Corid (amprolium, a coccidiostat). But on occasion they come back on the market, as did Corid. Enrofloxacin is readily available and is far cheaper than the brand name Baytril. Recent study shows that Baytril can cause cartilage damage in some classes of young developing animals (dogs, etc), but NOT in pigeons. The treatment of sick pigeons or carrier pigeons for Salmonella is not considered prophylactic but disease erradication. For what it is worth.