dal2

Happy bday Alan

Think you and Owen miss the point a wee bit! Eyesign used properly can be a great asset in YOUR team!!! You know the traits(or you will) of YOUR family. You can feel this in the handling, you can see this in the colour and you cane see it in the EYE?? Thats wot its used for!! Not going around telling good from bad looking in the eye without knowing the history? JMO

Very true Lewis. I have discussed this at length with Owen and we will disagree with eyesign just as we do with breeding selection! If it works for you dont change it, we dont use ot as a be all end all thing but as a supplement and enjoy comparing them findings? No much wrong with that as far as I can see??

Well done Tam great season for you and well done to the trophy winners in a good club

This is wots required???? Little bit of a mod to put a basket on aswell??? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-110v-Pop-Up-push-around-access-platform-cherry-picker-scissor-lift-/190746985996?pt=UK_Lifting_Moving_Equipment&hash=item2c6968060c

Ecclefechan have a Scaffold which we put together!! Two men on top,two men lifting and bringig off empties and everybody else carrying empties back to the hut!! Lockerbie mark with us and their members have helped considerably???

Well done smashing ybs

Yip deffo!! That is some doo they have! It has more nat tickets than a lot of folk get in a lifetime??

I cant find a list Derek on the net and aint got the trophy till Friday. Some excellent birds and fanciers will be on there tho???

Here she is Ashgrove Elaine(after my Mum)

No mate we are 35miles from kirkonnel but the hotel here is called Kirkconnel Hall for some reason

No like you Peter I thought ye would have done it loads of times mate :emoticon-0140-rofl: Seriously tho give us yer opinion on breeding!! Winner to winner or knowledge of family!!!

Spot on Davey No everybody has a loft full of winners from day 1!!!

Surely ye are contradicting yourself here Walter? You are telling these lads not to breed from unproven doos then telling them that ye can breed from a proven family!!!! Its either one camp or the other?? Owen likes to breed from his winners, but you know as well as me that will not always work? true? Fair play cos he says he is at the top of his game! His bloodline is working is it not? BUT WHERE DOES THE NEW MAN COME IN???? the man that has no winners to breed from??? where does he put his trust?? does hr rely on freebies or does he buy from a stud?? does he buy from winning fanciers???? this is a minefield is it not? do you trust that the fanciers you are buying from has the same breeding ideas as yourself? ie winner to winner??

Hanging of trees means that good distance birds are not easy come by! Ye we will deffo disagree because although I see your point about the winner to winner theory giving you a high percentage of breeding what you require to sprint with it seems you are unwilling to see my point of view about cultivating your family and being able to select the right pigeon for your stock loft without the need for it to win a race, as I have said before to you the best breeders are not always the best racers and visa versa! This is the way I have learnt from my peers, most of which are good fliers and some of them exceptional!! Thanks for the debate

You can move forward by recognising traits of the family that you keep, body size, wing shape, eyesign etc?? You become aware of what works in your family and what does not, for example my family always throws Dark cheq pied hens that do ok but very occasionally they throw a dark pied cock everyone has been a winner!! I have also noted that the best birds I have had racing wise are bred from blood red cocks of the same line, strangely tho the blood reds that I have raced have been poor???? Sprinting is a diffo game where motivation and power seem to be the key where as 500-600mile pigeons do not hang off trees, good ones anyway,.

HODDOM FLYING CLUB TROPHY WINNERS 2012 Inland Average Mr & Mrs J Graham Old Bird Average Mr & Mrs J Graham Y/B Average Mr & Mrs J Graham Sandy Little Shield G Dalgliesh & Son Kirkconnel Hall Trophy W. J. Gilmour NRCC Trophy Mr & Mrs J Graham J Carmichael Rose Bowl W.J. Gilmour KInmount Cup L Smith & Son Sparra Telfer Cup L Smith & Son Mrs H Carruthers Cup Not won J McMorran Cup Not won W Carruthers Cup J Dalgliesh Frankie Bell Trophy Mr & Mrs J Graham Rhona McEwan Goblets Mr & Mrs J Graham Canadian Trophy J Little Dalgliesh Cup J Dalgliesh O/B points Mr & Mrs J Graham Y/B points Mr & Mrs J Graham Performance Cup Mr & Mrs J Graham

Had a great night blethering aboot doos, was sitting with and array of nat winners and top fliers. Meal was great but didny manage as many puddings as Mr Hood who seemed to have a deal with most LSC members that he would eat theirs aswell. Good chat wae Big Gareth aboot technical stuff that I dont think I will bother with and had the BIGGEST breakfast you can imagine this morn!!!! Thanks to everybody that organised it and everybody that congratulated me and dad it is very much appreciated

I have quite a few birds at stock that heave never been oot of the loft never mind raced!!

Good stuff George. Maybe he could scrape oot for ye when he finishes???

Billy Wortley was the speaker in 2010 nat presentation and it was all part of his speech Lewis, not sure if it was published mate!!

I can only look on in envy!!!My loft is a botch up job by a brickie and a TV engineer, patched together with wot ever came to hand!! The wife says no more lofts or alterations!!!! Magic setup so the next yins gan tae be oot this world!!!!

Of course ye are right walter aboot the strain being diluted but what I am saying is that they wer diluted original by the men who knew and flew them theirselves? Obviously if you kept a normal racing loft and bred of your stock without an outcross ye would end up with some dodgy specimens?? I love the idea of a fancier keeping faith in their family, I would think you have done the same?, especially as a distance family as the maturing rate is much diffo than a sprint family? The Jansen family has bourne who many diffo strains??? Now all strains in their own right! I have visited a fancier on many occasions who has a Kirkpatrick family and have handled generation upon generation of pigeons like peas in a pod but also crosses hanging about even in the loft of a fancier completely dedicated to the family of birds. I cant comment much on 600+ racing as its outside my parameters in the Fechan but certainly get them well up to that! Mr Carmichaels wer a joy to behold but, as you say, not Kirkpatricks originally(Stirling springs to mind but would have to check)loads of fanciers, including myself, crossed the kirkpatricks with Johns birds but we had little success racing tho cleaned up at the shows!! By the way great thread. Did Mr Wortley not take Emil McCartons birds ped back near 60yrs thru Thomson Bros etc?? I know its only paper that a man has written on but still!!!

Yip still winning well, What dilution mine are I am not sure but the winning genes are still there which is my point, whatever cross is introduced is the decision of the fancier in control of his family?? And lets face it if he has performed well enough for people to name a strain after him then the knowledge of which cross was right for his pigeons must be assumed correct and a good addition to the gene pool?

Owen How do you know this? Have you extensively studied the Kirkpatrick story to see what went where and aho was friends with who? Obviously pure bred is an outsider but there are places where you can find excellent examples of the strain. Having been lucky to meet with two or three owners of exceptional colonies over the years have seen their dedication to the family! Your TRULY held believe that modern strains are better leads me to ask your formula for this sweeping statement? Was just thinking Owen whilst scraping the sh**, obviously it would be mental to NOT introduce a cross! Surely most do it to improve?? If you had a strain of yer own called the OWENS and you crossed in a couple of birds from me they would not change the name of yer strain to OWEN/DAL??? If the man likes his Kirkpatricks let him try and find the best specimens he can and he will have great fun whilst doing it safe in the knowledge that the hopes of being related in some ways to the champion doos that fired into Galabank, Annan from France like it was a club race!!! Best of luck Hibby on yer search, have some fun and meet some enthusiasts