Roland

http://www.maiskolven.eu/en.html One of many.

The rule of the thumb is very much more accurate and reliable than the odd once in a life time. One swallow doesn't make a summer does it!

Avian Flu was - like Swine man was made by the USA. Took to court at Helsinki they hade to change many time consuming laws so they couldn't be prosecuted for the Swine Flu. Though some are still trying. G.W. Bush and his hoppo Rummpy sold off their Oils shares and brought out a useless 'The only currently available cure for avian flu is a drug called Tamiflu. In Nov. 1, 2005 -- President Bush outlined a long-awaited national preparedness plan for pandemic influenza Tuesday, asking Congress for $7.1 billion in emergency spending to boost the country's readiness for an outbreak that could include bird flu. He sold it in batches at £200,000 a throw. We, like many others helped with the #Old Boys' act and Blair brought stacks. At most it could only slow it down for a short time. Made much more than his Oil wells etc.

Nice one. Sums up the stupidity of man and his bloated ego's, greed regards money and self importants. Every time they meddle with Nature, they get a kick back. The naive one listens and follows suit ... the wise one thinks and acts for his self eh!

Some times one or two of mine 'Go Light' where as 95% don't follow suit. said Delby, trying to make a straight line a circle. ... Cocci and / or much else I will agree over time I've had. BUT were and are quickly cured to no ill effect. Next you'll be saying Para, Salmonella, Stropci etc. etc are the same - because symtoms are similar. Well, Well, Then a dose Oxtetracycline will do them all eh! Oxtetracycline is / was before Bio Cure the only remedy for Salmonella / Family infections. Regards Salmonella Dafra (Scotland) said it was the only cure. Yet many still tried and found Baytril etc. useless. Nor will Bio Cure (As good as it is cure all. Now as then there are and have been many such illnesses similar, but to class all as the same or one is folly of the highest order.... The biggest problem is the constitution and immune systems are being hammered by incest breeding. YET still many breed a loft full of culls because they read a Father daughter pairing produced ... etc. They scorn a good birds results because thay have paid a fortune for a paper good on paper..' Jonas Salk's polio jabs worked wonders, and still does, Old remedy eh! Well if not broken don't try and fix it!.

Kyleakin, Regards so called 'Old remedies' what time does one put on them? Further many still are used today very effectively. Mind I don't for a moment think Lime could be classed as an Old remedy. Mind they did and do still peck out the old lime cement in buildings etc. The Polio jab was one such thought. that it was no longer of use, especially as Polio was a thing of the past ... how wrong and how quickly did it come back into use after disastrous effecting so many! Spit, especially a smokers for One eye cold, is still very effective and cost nowt. Company's with spout many reasons why and what it is and SALE concoctions... Probably the base of a smokers spit lol. Bird waning and not seemingly able to get to 100% ... Pull the two end tail feathers out! One each side./ Boo - hoo it all one likes, but it has the desired effect. Rusty nail in the drinkers may be pushing it a bit lol .... But in essence ? Often heard, indeed once done it, the swilling the hose in the drinker to aireate it ... waste of time of course. Further if one could add air to the blood system it would quickly kill the bird. Like wise iron ... Only needs 0,05$ tops, so add as much spinach to the drinker as you like... The waste is quickly passed through. And once the cup is brimful it can't hold any more! But if one stood back and saw the amount of medication they have in the medical box.... If one would only equate why company's advertise, they would gather that profits bear a large part of it. Obviously otherwise they wouldn't exist. Yogurts, for example and Anti Biotic etc. Live would be dead before it hit the shelves. Dead... wouldn't be of use... May make the bird look great or something. So does a little bleach in the water, etc. etc. But we read into too much far too often without using our common sense... especially if told, or endorsed by ...! Look at the notice board in the doctors surgery. Anti biotics lol. Often said nothing new under the sun¬!

Topsy Turvy here, Now bright blue skies one minute, then dark and heavy showers.

First of, I do use and recommend Garden line in the water, though not all the year round. Mostly only when my pigeons maybe put in a distressing place.... It has a soothing effect. Secondarily I never said Onions for Y/bs sick ness, or any other for that matter, but as a proven method of gathering viruses etc. and removing from the loft as and when / if entering. It was discovered after the Spanish flu epidemic. Also please, one or two of you grow up and stop trying to boo- hoo and belittle posts because you don't have any sensible cock backs. You only show yourselves up. Further to say that every one has had y/bs could be liken to saying EVERY wife strays and has affairs... Just not true, though many have done in past and present no doubt. Kyleakin I'd no more want you to remove any post, good or bad on my account. I'm more than able, and thick skinned enough to handle that lol. P.s Derek, a good post A. you say in your opinion and that is a right etc. How ever again Not all kids go down... You have most likely seen, experienced, heard that 'Good Pigeons never seem to be ill'! Maybe because of a good constitution and health that they don't go down even though they may be sharing the same loft and drinkers. Maybe mine ... But then I very much doubt 50% let alone all, have such a good health check etc. Some times one or two of mine 'Go Light' where as 95% don't follow suit. Further ALL lofts carry their own ailments and are immune to them... whereas others birds bought in aren't and quickly show the effects. Hence often the fancier thay got them of carry the blame etc. THOUGH they are all perfectly in good health etc. in their loft. Must be or one visiting, seeing theior races results etc. wouldn't have them.

dal12, be that as you rib... Maybe you mean Quality Keepers as to racers .... But the reality is simple. No one can say 'Every One'! To do so is flamboyant bordering on self deceit. An impossible reality to say the least. I've spent a lot of money 3 years back in trying to cure incurable birds. Due to my own stupidity and taking a silly chance. I've over the years have encounter most ailment regards the pigeons in my care. I've learnt the hard way.I've listen to those that actually know, and determined the reality of what is said. Y/bs is often said to be stress related! So deal with that. Others say drinkers in panniers / race birds infecting them.... Harder to deal with if true. BUT only if the birds lack good health and a constitution in the first place. Like Ian has done, wouldn't it be sharper to ASK etc. instead of going along with excuses because of ones' only failings? KYLEAKING silly endorsement ... but then you are renowned for running with the fox and hounds... To be in the IN CROWD.

Maybe you have Delboy ... but that doesn't equate at all to ALL had having it. Maybe it's strong hold is in Scotland. I and many, many more haven't.

JAM and CO, from one line you are drawing a universe. I've been around pigeons for over 60 years. I know much, and am yet to learn more no doubt ... I've seen Para, Salmonella etc. etc. AND y/b sickness on both y/b birds and yearlings now in other's lofts. I have never ever had the slightest touch of y/b sickness. Many other ailments ok! So how one can in a broad spectrum state ALL have had suffered from yb's is ludicrous to say the least.... Many new sicknesses are because of inbreeding and other unnatural past times done by many that don't have an inkling as to how, let alone why it is done. Too many lofts have lofts full of birds with no natural immunity let alone good constitutions I'm sorry to say.

Welcomed.

I think TOO many are swayed here because THEY have experience having it, as many, if not most have seemingly and unfortunately, ... So they want to believe ALL have. That is absurd. There a quite a few I know who have never had it. Fact whether others WANT to believe it or not. So simply put they spout 'All have'! Rubbish, are the others all liars? Am I a liar because I have never had it! No, but now through fool hardy and selfish thoughts, too many I am now a liar. Struth how ridiculous. I also have raw onions dangling in the loft often Especially when the weather draws in. Perhaps one should look up as to why?

Of course we are/ Unikon was / is the only problem clock regards another system. But believe that has all been sorted. Brecon in Desborough, but Benzing probably the most used and popular. Only Brixworth don't use E's under a gentleman's agreement... in Northampton shire.

I often as did many ole boys release youngster up with the Sheffield / Barnsley fed etc. 80 would circle with them and quickly drop out and home. 10% would home real late with wings drooping and 5% next morning. Others either worked back or got lost. I live about half Mile from Wickstead Park, Kettering. There are many libs there. Do I ever keep them in? No youngsters or old birds are out. Yes they may circle about with them ... Old birds seldom take any notice and youngster soon return.

I have, but my birds never have lol That's a fact.

Tyson nothing more than a explosive bully... couldn't hack it when stood up to. Looked for easy ways out. Will later compose a little of my thoughts and why later, as am making Jam and apple pies at moment. Just popped on to check a pastry method lol... I see Ali isn't rated by the above two posts.

A friend of mine went with a couple of others to the Cooper fight. On the train home they shared the carriage with a elderly gent. They got talking and this gent said he had been to see a once in a life time - could ill afforded it, but wife let him go lol - chance to see what will always be a top topic, a fabulous Cassius Clay. He stated much regards speed, reflexes and CONTROLLED power and finished saying 'The like will never ve seen again in the heavy weight division...' Never is a long time, and ...' I say not since Jack Johnson had the division been devastated by any one.... Last to be up there was / is of course Lennox Lewis. The greatest shame is the sad bemoaning and hatred of Sonny Liston.... I think undoubtedly in 4th place, at his age etc. unbelievably good. P.s. don't any one go on regards Tyson ... a great bully and able to put bums on seats ... Not in the top 10 ... 15 even. JMO

A myth ... DAL12 If circling to clear WHEN first released, and hit a flock racing THEN they May get carried a very short distance till breaking away and heading in the right directions. In a matter of 200 to 800, 1200 yards TOP. but then that wouldn't cause a jiff regards losses or getting home.

Myth, lame crutch for want of an excuse. Novice, no disrespect, but pigeons fly at different heights regards winds, or no winds... just watch the birds. No such thing as clashing I believe, and Observance bears this out surely. Plus when birds are honed in a 'Racing they don't see anything till a split second before hand. Now seem a release that gets caught via flock racing, the quickly dis band. Are we to say that things are different when out of sight I think not, especially when in flight ....... Now maybe GOING the same way if caught up by a just released lot and stragglers are caught up. JMO

Me too Walter... 16 stone moving that fast, reflexes etc. etc. AND proved time after time he could take the best of the punches. Personally I think he went on too long, and was / and still am mad at the USA government robbing us and him of his greatest years when in his prime.

Mind another thought ... I like most would take them back and get a refund ... However, a thought here. If the grub is still in the bean, would it be good nutrition / protein for the bird? I remember reading a very good article from a renowned Vet saying if a pigeon homes, or a stray completely flown out. a small worm down the throat works wonders and replenishes very quickly ...

Fine Andy ... Under what heading?

I will open another page in this regards Walter call Traditions where this may be debated or experience's of happenings and is it logic. That is if Andy doesn't blow it out within a few minutes. I'll try to post on an appropriate heading....

Yes you are absolutely correct Roland in everything you say I suppose it's just a natural reaction to a life time (82 years) of being patronised. I think it's great Walter that you are proud of your country, ancestry etc. Further I think of the four home countries only England aren't. Indeed I'd wager 60% don't know who St. George was supposed to be... Let alone his Saint day date. (23rd of April). Only interested when it's on tele ... and the wife's / women moaning about Coronation street/ East Enders not showing lol. We as a whole have very little traditions in England, or next to none. But like Scotland / Wales / Ireland a wealth of history. Royalty etc. .... Which brings in £millions upon £millions in tourist trade.