Roland

I think Tony, along with incense breeding for destroying the immune system and their' ability to fight and ward of ailments, reaching for the bottle and pill box, you have hit the nail on the head explained it in a nut shell. Fanciers have, and still are, the biggest enemy of their' pigeons and the fancy. Hence them being unable to fight or ward of such and y/b's sickness. Further most like helped to make it such a force now to reckon with now.

You know, when we speak about ourselves 'Wrapping Up' OR 'keeping Fit, dieting etc. Taking care about prescriptions, what food or drink is good for us and what's not! ABOVE all 'Staying fit and healthy' ... also in same aspects to pets, race horses etc. etc. What does one hope to achieve? Nothing if not helping our immune system and giving it a head start if possible. PREVENTION yes? ! Like wise with our pigeons, and too much, too often is undermined by our very selves.

Gosh, a chill out the front, but sunny with a few wispy clouds .... Back garden dark clouds loom rumbling and threatening....

Absolutely brill day. Warm with mild and fresh breeze and not a cloud in sight! Let the cock birds out first and thought ;I maybe should have took the later bred up the road for their first chuck. Say just 20 miles.

Chlorine obviously kill good bacteria same as so - called bad. I do - often as Wiley and you Peter. Sometimes I don't. Any difference? Of course because the bacteria has a chance to expand and do their jobs. You know, - must be a different topic and under a different heading, but just who, and how, besides why does one decide what is good bacteria and so - called bad, and WHO! Further what harm is done, and aren't bacteria GOOD for the immune system? How can one let them achieve Immunity is we keep destroying the very essence of what is needed. A point to ailments and Possibly y/b's sicknext in the content that many fail to ward it off.

Still haven't got last weeks .... what's new lol. Very seldom get mine same week. Can count on hands the times in the last 6 years. The biggest wonder is 'Why do I still have it'?

Was once Tony ... Not now. Days been getting longer of late.

Couldn't say... mesmerized and befuddled trying to understand it lol.

Well I think about sums you up a treat Dal12.

Nah, more a syphilis dodger mate lol.

That's a shame dal12. I thought you were above that. I even made it simple by ASKING and replying to you. A. the gist that YOU believe that there is merit in stress for racing and y/b's and it doesn't. or is unlikely to affect those that reduce any factor of stress. Be it by reducing times in baskets and racing. Indeed you acknowledge this your self! But to further answer another aspect of a point you contrive to add arrows to an empty quiver I will say I have already ANSWERED THEM in another post after to confirm. No I believe a bird with GOOD immunity and constitution is more than able to compete 12 races or so. Agreed only 7 tops in great form / condition. - Referred to as 'Super form.- Youngsters love to fly. They fly with zest and seemingly enjoyment. My point Dal12 is it is down to many faults in management both present and past.

Wiley, point taken regards 'Curse'. I must agree too. But I was remarking on 'Aye ready's' comment /thought. Agreed Tony. It got so bad that a few years back (not so long ago) the 'GOVERMENT' had to step in regards their' drug uses, Such as Cortisone etc. Why? because it had got so bad it was affecting the sales so much. They took and prosecuted a few renowned 'Names'! That did the trick / job then. Unfortunately I see they are applying the same tactics again. Obviously due to similar concerns. Another reason the RPRA are waving a flag about banned drugs being used on the racers. Injected aside of the breast bone etc. I think to Tony too little too late again. Boils down to Money and Favours etc. Pigeons boosted and held together by drug use to sale on by unscrupulous 'feather merchants' and 'Names'.. Is it any wonder that our pigeons are so poor in the constitutions? Have a few mates - Names- that go to Belgium often. Tell me that certain( Supposedly) 'Top Flyers' that are advertised, house hold names in this so called sport are not even known back in their' home countries. I have never - certainly knowingly- ever mate close related birds. Not even cousins. Happen yesterday. I went in and took the bowl for a quick scrape of perches and nest boxes. 5 or so have mushy droppings! Did I hound back and raid the medicine chest? No1 Would have been a waste of time .A. I wouldn't have an inkling what to treat with. B. there isn't anything in there! No, I thought 'What's up? O of course I changed their feed yesterday and fed only wheat. Fed Beens and for got about it. Today great again. Another reason for feeding etc. same time each day. Ok later I will be feeding a trapping mixture in mornings and the a mixture I believe I think the birds could benefit from. Today I fed their normal Tic Beans, Wheat and Barley. Sunday just Barley.

??? Bit off that. Again the pigeon 20 - 40 years ago were of a far better constitution than today's. Fact. Medicine etc. were hardly used - Para came as a shock. Birds flew week in week out, often full of canker etc. Before the incest breeding took hold. Before any and everything was supposedly treated - so very often causing more hassle than not. When fanciers read an article and became so knowledgeable and - like today treat willy - nilly and even every 2 - 4weeks. Then Before and after EVERY races. No a different time, and far better and stronger birds, that competed with same or better velocities. And yes most fanciers did move around and treat their birds with care - love and far more considerate than today. They had to. When 24 birds WAS A MOB flyer. YET most season they had to cull to make room for the youngster. When they had to first earn a perch, and then a nest box. The y/b sickness is a CURSE but man made.

Good to see that isn't it mate. Well done all. I well recall when you was at your dad's - or another brother living down South England, brought down some birds to me. We met at the Watford Gap on the M.1. Birds were free, and you wouldn't accept a penny for fuel or service. Great family. Great genuine people are you all. I wish, and hope every success to you.

No! you may not Dal12. But you may take it that you are suggesting that the 'Part Timers / fanciers as to 'Racers DON'T get Y/B's. Further then who must be saying that actually it is the stress, the sending week in and week out that is causing Y/B's! Which in it's self you admit NOT all fanciers get young bird sickness! Fine. Further that it is due to racing too much. Now whatever the cause there must then stem from that aspect. be it stress, conditioned, weaken constitution etc. etc. Whatever! So then one splitting their' race teams into 2 -3 - 4 teams augers well in regards maintaining a stress free loft and hence no Y/B's. Thanks for clearing that up DAL12.

? Do you mean ones who just send, enjoy and help keep your costs down and are there to be beaten via 'Racers, as to those sent dosed up to the eye balls and sending any thing for a win?-those that race to win ... they still mix.

John firstly on this subject, WE all know when some one get Y/B. Yet never mention or notice of course those that don't. I'd wager many can point to such fanciers. Indeed say 'HE never seems to get ailments, let alone y/b'. I often wonder how races are completed in when listening to the balaffa of y/b. Why is it then some often have, and others never! Oh I know, they are fibbing... To say ALL have had it is an insult of the highest order. Uncouth and bounds in ignorance. As you ask on this domain John I will answer on here. Stress free! I know many that are often in the loft. They walk very slow and deliberate. Nigh all play up to him. He talks in a low voice and strokes, makes a fuss of them, even youngsters in the nest. Always has a tib - bit in their' pocket. Any and every care is taken not to startle them. He never snatches at them when catching them etc. Pigeons that will sun bathe in the garden and you have to step over them. They come TO HIM when called - especially to a woman's voice. Incest breeding has so very many detrimental faults too to answer for... It weakens their constitution galore. In nature it never happens. It weakens much and has dire effects... Oh I know he and so and so do it ... Yes maybe, but never to race. Only for breeding purposes and then ALWAYS an out cross.... Vitality! I do much of above except constantly handling them... Certainly not without a cause. Mine totally do as and when they like. From going in and out of the loft to enticed to pick around the garden. Flapping about roof hopping. Great shows in an instant any dire effects... and also state of mind and fitness, condition. No never have a problem trapping. They have a warm, dry safety in the loft which they quickly learn to fly to is so feeling a need. I leave a couple of handfuls every other day of garden lime overnight in the drinkers... Again a gap around the lid to allow the choline to dispense. I. with the wife will sit out sunbathing and throw the odd tib - bit to them. Young and old alike will peck around the feet and on the seat etc. Makes one think when all the thoughts say that they just don't know what causes it. The say it is Air borne etc. and one can't do oat.... I usually mate up in April... have late bred most years. Admitted I may only have a couple or so of y/b races now... Lost interest and poor health. So I believe out crossing for vitality and forget incest breeding - unless one understands it. (But then that is another topic). Treat them like mates, loved ones. Had a mate, a very knowledgeable and great flyer that always has chipping, small (Gold) around the nest box. Said 'They love picking through that ... Keeps them calm and content... He never had y/b either. Indeed thinking on my clubs... far more haven't I guess than do.

I hear tale that the days are already getting longer ... We will have to change the Sun's birthday soon then lol. December the 25th lol.

So says you. Not actual, let alone factual. OK you have strong beliefs in this regards.... But that matters not a jot. You are like 80% of those that have had it ... Hence EVERYONE ELSE MUST HAVE. Rubbish! Think you, and those of like your' opinion should spend the time and effort in trying to find out WHY you and co have, and Me and many more haven't. I know, you feel / has been said such as 'Not believed'. But that doesn't make your opinion gain, let alone bare any weight. If stress... then give them a stress free life. Maybe it is but doing what is UNNATURAL and Forced that is the problem.

Oats 45%, Tic Beans 35% Barley and wheat about 10% each. Roughly. But never stint on the oats.

Strange that ovy1255, I, like many others have great success loss wise. I actually made a mistake once with a September born late bred hen. I sent her nigh every week ... She won the Scottish averages on her own the next season at 9 / months of age. I perhaps asked too much? Many breed early birds and put old rings on them and race in the O/B season with great success. Feel warm days trained, then May / June in sunny days and they tend to show their mettle... Next season any where they will hold their own. Bred in the pink, trained in the purple and one gets colourful results.

Sense there mate.

Well the moult puts some off. But also the myth of heavy losses. They bred 60 - 100 youngsters and may finish up with 13 - 20 etc. and have spent a lot on fuel getting them up the Road and into races... Never to get any youngsters.... The breed 30 - 40 late bred (lose 15 - 25)... get some youngsters off them and as 18 (2 ear olds' get every good as result if not far better, and spout that THEY ARE a waste of time eh! Best way ever to add to stock, start a family, and supplement losses. A boon if room and patience.

A couple of chucks on fine days and no problem. Sent my untested yearlings and late breds 180 mile race first time in basket this year. Said I was going back to old days when constantly skint. 9 out of 13 did well ... thought till last moment I had won the race. One late bred took a couple of months. Many a good result from yearling have first race upto 450 mile and 2 y o's flying Pau with distinction. Never, personally, done that far though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRHqw76VtwY Well worth a view I believe. Think a copy to schools wouldn't do any harm.