Roland

Careful though with Copper Sulfate it can be hard on the liver.

Ad Schaerlaekens wrote an interesting anecdote regarding this very dilemma: MARC ROOSSENS may not have been able to eliminate this problem through "drinker hygiene" only but he was not able to solve it with antibiotics alone. The addition of drinker hygiene was necessary. And because of these bugs constantly evolving, constantly adjusting their biochemical machinery, they develop resistance to every antibiotic we can throw at them. Checking the efficacy of the trichomonicidal agent through a quick check with a microscope is the only way to go and some of your club members have already discovered that some of these agents have become useless. You have also found that regardless of which agent is used, the bird's immune system is needed to eliminate the "bug" from the body. This is the case for all other micro-organisms also. This may help. "The antiprotozoal drugs which were used successfully in treating this disease, such as dimetridazole and metronidazole, have been removed from the market. Experimentally, a number of drugs are active against trichomonas infection. Use of 0.1% copper sulfate (100 mg per 100 ml of drinking water), 0.5% hydrochloric acid or 0.02% mercuric chloride (sublimate) is worth investigating. The optimum time to treat breeding pairs is at the initiation of egg production." And another site. http://www.birds2grow.com/art-canker.html Then there is Acid Pak as Doctor Karl… forgot his name… ol well who states AcidPak is not advertised as a cure for canker. It was just wishful thinking on my part that it may decrease the canker organisms in the birds. However, I vaccinated some youngsters today and checked them out also. I found very little in 60% of the birds and 40% were negative. Among the negative ones are those bred by birds that were quite positive yesterday. All of my youngsters only know acidified water and were never treated against canker. I do not fly in a local club and do not say that I could fly my birds successfully without antibiotics against canker although Gord has been doing just this for quite a few years now. I will select some of these young ones to participate in South Africa. I will try to ship birds whose immune status is good and will help these birds in any way I can to make them strong. Un quote of course Acid in the water in any form cannot do any harm. I doubt if it is the 'ultimate' killer of bad bugs as many bugs do adapt. But all else being equal, it is very beneficial. Read your post and went out and checked the PH of the pond the birds were drinking out of and bathing in until two days ago. 6.0. Acidic. The maple leaves etc that fall in to the pond acidify the water over time. Peat moss will lower the PH drastically in my aquariums. Actually also will tea leaves!! But too astringent for small fish fry. Tried them and also green tea leaves. With so small an amount of Canker in your birds, it may be a blessing to have some there anyway? Just wondering if it could be also beneficial? And a mild form of Canker that has established keeps other forms out! The more you change, or the less you allow birds share the drinker is obviously a great benefit.

Spot on etc. and many others now have a great affect both inside and out. ... On many things. Obviously the best formatt I beleve personally is for members to club together and use 'Pour On' and this has added benefits.

Not 3 ... more like 33 different basic (I believe it is actually 27 on last count)strains that quickly become inmune after 2/ times the treatment given. So the remedy for canker has to be treart with different remedy of course. It is no different from what the ladies may suffer from... I.e Thrush. Once in a while many treat with the same to great effect.

Interseting, and simple logic beautyhomer. Thanks for posting. I believe kiss is and alway will be best, well 90% of the time. Keep It Sweet and Simple.

Dropping.... A man flemmed bad and spat it out. The wind blew across and dried it up....... The whole particle is blown around and is in the air. We / Pigeons breathe air. Wett droppings....... not blown about eh! A foot deep and 8 inches wide trough all around the floor and under the perches. Chicken wired lid laced on top, cleaned out when ... wanted.

Moth Bals are very unhealthy for pigeons. Best left well away from loft. Mothballs contain paradichlorobenzene, or PDB, a chemical that can cause liver and kidney failure and severe anemia. Also cuases great problems when sustituted for Glue Sniffing. The end results are drastic.... often sooner than later they become hospitalized suffering from / with scaly skin on her hands, elbows and legs, unsteadiness and mental sluggishness shows the risks of sniffing mothballs. The effects from hanging then up for the air to circulate in a loft is not very wise. many have and seem to get away with it. I used to hang Vapona up. seemed fine. Other Moth balls may contain either 100% of either naphthalene or paradichlorobenzene. Both of these ingredients can produce harmful effects when they enter your system ... Luckily, there are some natural and non-toxic scents that also repel moths: lavender and cedar wood. You can buy alternative mothballs made from cedar balls scented with lavender as well as cedar blocks on hangers you can hang in your loft. You can also simply use cedar chips, or you can go another route, which is to make your own mothballs. I cut squares of fabric and stuffed them with dried lavender flowers, scented with lavender and cedar essential oils (all available at most health food stores), then tied the fabric corners together to make little sachets. It's simple. Helpful eco solutions are often on www.ecocycle.org.

Never met his ... liked his sister though Mobster. She was hot with pigeons...

Nice looking birds... I am going to have to get some coloured ones again ... Keeps the nieghbours happy to see the 'Pretty one' and better still if they can fly well I guess.

No wrong DDT did affect much, as it had a knock on affect. Like Paramyx... for rabbits. But the 15 - 17 years after the war they were PLENTY hanging on the wires, and that is a fact. RSPB didn't help either after the war, and since when has a ‘Falcon’ been a Hawk!!! eh! And peregrines were still around. But scare, hardly a feather from 1940 - 45 and that is a fact, just read some old books on it. When the Rambler / Holidays of bed and breakfast was 1/6 pence, 7 and a 1/2 p, they use to see much and it was their holiday, so t5he immediate 10 -12 years after the war when still controlled they had a great revival. Facts with no reading between the lines! And you treat, like most, with a poison whenever you treat so that is whole Hog Wash, and Me Eye. What kill bacteria for starters! Oh brewers yeast I suppose. And every poison you put into your birds has a reference of dosage etc. I wonder why that is eh! And just look at the treatment that can't be mixed, - but are often of course- I wonder why that is. Custard on my Blackberry and Apple pie never hurt me none. So you just give your bird an herbal treatments eh1 Even Health shops, which with the super markets price wise, have anti goodness if a lot of their products. Even by products of honey can be poisonous. I. E. whey is great. In very small dosages...! It poisons the system. Etc. etc. etc. So I am sure I am not going to try and educate all the posters on here what good and bad part every product contains. Brewers yeast can be a poison for starters if allowed to build up! Salt is gone. But then again....? Golly just look and al the Turkey pellets etc. used. Chopped grass has to be good eh just look at the strength and stamina of Bison etc. But pigeon enzymes can't come, need another 2/3 stomachs I guess. Steak has 56 % protein. Uses 40% of that to eat and digest. So Brewers yeast is a lot less, but goes simply and easier to the system. Wonder where pigeon go for it! Lime is great, most tell you E. Coli etc. etc. and is bad. Never ever yet seen a bird use it that has open hole that is great, and they travel miles over fields to get it, or peck certain walls. Fresh clean water, from spring or even a well, and wholesome grain. Give a sprinkle each day, and they will tell what their body is lacking or needing... then simply make that 50% - % of their diet for two days... bet next time (2 days later) they tell you different. They only thing they can't say, because they don't know, are what you have in store for them. End of Topic.

I would not be any good. Not a spot of sun and I'd be waiting. Haven't kept up with Steve Breamen and he's first class Ponnter etc in regards Liberations and I'd worry. Still and not birds would mean a wait. Sea gulls milling and it would be a hold over. Wouldn't be many races I guess. or most weeks, depending on the weather and circumstances. If I'd genuinely - like most have - make a mistake I'd put my hand up. and the irate phone cas and back knifing by those not capable, or daren't do the job would more than ruse a few feathers. Nah I for one could never do it, so I never cpmplain or slag them off. even if I feel like it, because one has to put up or shut up, and too many make bulets for others to fire.... Yeah best I don't try it, would do my head in.

I personally wouldn't be any good, and have nigh always praised and defended Controllers/ race committees etc.

Bruno I believe you read between the lines when it suits you. Can't see any problem myself with using 'Pour On' if it does the job, like spot on, and rids inside and out side then great, and if a few RSPB rearing birds raised by and paid for by many on the belief to see the hedgerows and back garden thriving, then that is great! So as a so called ‘Bird Lover’ I find it hard that you seem to be against anyone protecting their’ own, and the country side. I saw, the in the late 50's to the early 60's. After they had made a come back from the war years - when 'Pigeons' were needed and looked after, many on fence hung there by the Game Keepers! There was still more than enough as pets and flying over head. So the RSPB use them to make money. Fine, and at a cost you seem to believe is well worth paying. There was then plenty and more so now! Well give over about RSPB rights and all the other garbage about ‘Fines and Legalities’ etc. To my mind you have become a bore. May I humbly suggest you go and donate, raise money etc. for the RSPB and the ‘Hawk Brigades’! Then be a good little boy and leave us to our hobby which our own HARD EARNT money affords us, and what little freedom and joy that is left to us to enjoy while we can. For rest assured no T.V. or well paid ‘Name’ is going to make films, raise money on our account.

Hi Terry, have a few GEVAERT whatever and they have flown the distance very wel for me. Like you say it is all down to managerment and what they wish to acheive with their birds. Often wonder what these so caled sprints are that get lost from tosses, and 100 mile or less races. Must have been meant for the ole 'Street Races' I presume.

Any fit condirioned and healthy birds. same ones that fly the 600 miles + etc. Just management a mite different, and feather merchants yarns, and others justication of putting up price, or a crutch for a lame excuse.

Glad for yer Paul ... Make a name and fly tthe Shetlands from there, takes the icing would that. Harder than South, from one that flies both ways with the Same birds.

Because they are far apart and if Members came first ALL sections then it woiuld be the only decent and best club there is... or soon to be was.

Hi Mick, Not by a long chalk, what is best for the members will strengthen and progress a club. Seems what is best for the Club is rearing it apart.

Northants Fed has one. had a bit of trouble with theirs like, 3 seasons later about right. Watering, Feeding etc. and DOORS opening. etc. etc.

I agree with Darren, most proable cause is too much protein, and this will cause toxins in the system... So cut out flying straight of and treat to cleanse the blood and system out. I'd restrict execise first off, then cleanse meself then just cut down on the protien. 17% is ample this time of year, upto 22% tops when feeding, I'm just less than that, about 20% when rearing. Pigeons don't excel flying wise with protein, mostly carbs. a nice layer of fat then between layers of muscles and Liver cleanse and ample carbs for flying.

Had same Jimmy, then did reach the guy he said 'Er leave it with me, I'll phone you back er, and took me number etc again. After a week so I was ringing to no avail - 'I am by RPRA rules nigh beholden to keep till it's sort. Long story short, got him again and he said 'Yeah I remeber now... I was of on holiday that week - end and thought you'd have got shot or lost it by now'! I said no like, he asks what colour, I says a Black.. He said, 'Oh ah, er I have plenty of them, can you nexk it for me, to say the trouble'. I told him straight and met his wife 20 miles up the road where I train, who sheepishly took it. Yes crap for manner too I reckon.

Could well be right, I sense danger when I see thunder on my girl friends face lol But why not! It is reckoned that we have stopped using parts of our bodies, like the pendics' etc. and our sense are supposedly a lot less adequate to what they were due to lack of using them, so, perhaps the animal and creature lives had kept theirs in tact.

That why I posted the Raptures article. Has to be pour on.

Well thought I'd get it out now. From a great person who's word carries wieght as it has truth. stopped writing about how to deal with birds of prey, because very few people bothered to practise what I preached. However, if you care to dab one drop of IVOMEC POUR-ON (nothing else will do) on to the flesh on the back of your pigeon's neck, three times inside a week, and then once every month thereafter, you will render your pigeon's flesh poisonous to anything. It won't hurt the pigeon, won't affect its fertility or its racing ability. I have been doing it for over 26 years. If the pigeon is eaten by a predator, it will poison the predator. If a fox, or cat, mink, ferret, stoat, etc, gets into the loft and starts killing, you will find a dead fox, etc, later. Ask our Welsh cousins, they now do it regularly and have predators under control in areas where they were once numerous. DO NOT use anything but IVOMEC POUR-ON, as all other louse treatments have been doctored at RSPB requests. IVOMEC has not been so ruined. In India and Nepal, 97% of the Condor population have died off, killed by their habit of eating off the carcases of cattle that had been treated with IVOMEC POUR-ON. India now uses an alternative treatment, but Nepal does not, much to the annoyance of the RSPB. You are NOT attacking birds of prey, you are protecting your pigeons against the ravages of lice and mites, by using IVOMEC POUR-ON which is a prepation formulated for just that purpose. It is NOT licensed for use on pigeons (for some strange reason?) but can be obtained from Agricultural Stores, or Dairy Farmers. It is expensive. If one member in a club buys a litre, costing around £90 or so, he can sell 100ml each to nine fellow members at £10 each and so all protect their birds at a minimum cost. 100ml is enough to protect the average loft for about 2/3 years

I enclose this post of a great person, who's respect and honesty is great to say the least I hope it helps. I've never had y/b sickness, then I also believe that Garden Lime left in the drinkers overnight 2/3 a week has a soothing effect. other say the ingrediants could cause E. Coli. never know about that, and way I hope this helps.... Year before last I conducted a Field Trial of an experimental mixture of five different Carbonates against YBS. I had some good advice from the CEO of an American firm that were working on a similar problem to do with cattle, and came up with a product I named "Xerek". It works against what we call "YB Sickness" - but be aware that there are other maladies with symptoms that may look like the symptoms of YBS but are not the same animal! Anyway, in brief "Xerek" works, and works fast. I have long ago lost count of the number of letters of appreciation that have been received. When I had perfected the formula I gave it away, to the man whom I know is honest and fair, Richard Wylie, head of the UK Division of DAZER International. There was only one provision, that he marketed it at £5 or less, so the Fancy would not be screwed, as so many purveyors of potions have done in recent years, you know their names, they come and go like the wind. Mix a sachet of "Xerek" into one gallon of water, and fill a drinker. Top it up the next day, and again on the third day. Within the first six hours an improvement will be seen in the birds, vomiting stops, droppings solidify, feathers tighten and the bird wants to get out and fly again. Some fanciers have used the product on Mon/Tues and won the following Saturday, so it works ! In my opinion YBS is caused by a fungus, not a virus as so many people think. I am sure of it. You can't treat a virus but you can treat a fungus. "Xerek" costs £5 a sachet, or on special offer sometimes at "buy two get another free". I do not make a penny piece from it. I neither need nor want it. Suppliers are Dazer (UK) 16, Thorpe Meadows, Peterborough PE3 6GA, or "Old Hand Supplies" at 298 Torquay Rd Preston, PAIGNTON, Devon TQ3 2ER, or myself at 15, Munday's Mead, Wincanton, Som. BA9 9HL. Cheers