Roland

I’d love for posters to air their views, either agreeing or disagreeing, for to me, and as far as I am concerned, and aware, this is an helpful aspect of this and any forum. Controversial? ! Maybe, but surely that may well be what the question is or implied! Further – I feel, that it may be just that, how it is implied, and is it insulting to indeed ask? I often see fanciers asking for a little more detail on here, and of course other sites too. Is this being discourteous, or improper, even rude? Indeed does one feel that this is in order and an opt and proper thing to do? Are we entitled to know just how good, or honest a fancier is that is selling their bird(s)? Indeed, is even it relevant? After all no one makes any one part wit hard to earn cash do they? Especially in the coming months / years I fear. Are references needed, or a waste of time. Or does one expect anyone with a good, let alone great history regarding their birds performances NOT to spout out about their’ achievements?

Please don’t let me sway views, just perhaps some contents. Indeed, I’ve voiced my opinion oft on this very matter. It isn’t the ‘Success', or the 'Renown name’ of the poster that counts, but the context that is written. Golly I've see very often-great flyers go hammer and tongs at each other. Yet I feel that the ‘Name’ gives an unfair and slanted view, which almost become automatically accepted as gospel, Indeed far too often, and the 'masses' rallying around to defend the 'Name' Floor boards creak, and wood work crumbles often if some one even dares ask for a totem of truth, honesty, let alone a factual fact! And we all know that is correct, let alone right. Even good posters become 'Wanna be's to hang on their shirt tails. Golly one should just remember some of the disgraceful acts some have done, some of their dishonest, and despicable dealing that a ‘Name’ has got away with. BECAUSE they are a ‘Name’! Further, personally, feel very much in the Freedom of speech, the right to voice it… but not the right to slander, ridicule or belittle, this via a ‘Name, a normal poster, or a None de plume. The end product is invariably the same. That is that some honest person feels that they can no longer post, visit, or feel comfortable with a given site. This has to be bad, no only for the site, but also for the ‘Fancy’ in general. As for banning anyone, one must remember in actual fact it IS the Computer that is in effect banned. But sooner than later the poster gets fed up of having to use another computer and just fades.

Please don’t let me sway views, just perhaps some contents. –I wouldn’t try to be involved in this topic because I mainly know nothing of it! I whole-heartedly agree with the post of Johno’s. Indeed, I’ve voiced my opinion oft on this very matter. It isn’t the ‘Success, or renown’s name’ of the poster that counts, but the context that is written. Golly seen very often-great flyers go hammer and tongs at each other. I feel that the ‘Name’ gives an unfair and slanted view, which almost become automatically accepted as gospel… and we all know that is correct, let alone right. Golly just remember some of the disgraceful act some have done, and some of their dishonest, and despicable dealing that a ‘Name’ has got away with. BECAUSE they are a ‘Name’! Further, personally, feel very much the Freedom of speech, the right to voice it… but not the right to slander, ridicule or belittle, this via a ‘Name, a normal poster, or a No de plume. The end product is invariably the same. That is that some honest person feels that they can no longer post, visit, or feel comfortable with a given site. This has to be bad, no only for the site, but also for the ‘Fancy’ in general. And as a post says above, the Computer is in effect what is banned. But sooner than later the poster gets fed up of having to use another computer and just fades. I will start another topic with this post so that it doesn’t interfere with this topic. I’ll call it ‘As I see it’ I suppose lol.

Three years ago this week I went for a few weeks to Canada. They werre at the time putting everyones loft locations by GPS into the clubs etc. Yhese also meant that they could bring the birds back, or move them any where for a Liberation and just record the lib cordinates. Worked well. Also - mind they travel far and wide club wise - that they can send their ET Timings, into the club via Email, and have a good idea straight off how they fared. Of course confirmation was when the clocks were checked the following Basket Night at clubs head quaters. Yes we are far behind,

Says roughly.... Ingezonden reported Research national St fin penny and national Blois. Dear members, We want give a closer explanation YOU concerning above text. Department 7 has had this year to do with stud robber stable on the national flight of Saint fin penny. We now do YOU an enumeration of happening on St fin penny 13 June 2008. Reporting on teletext. stud robber stable stolen in St fin penny at the department 7, numbers of of studs of three inkorfcentrums of department 7. Declaration done at the police force in France. Medeling: Police force has it in research. In the first place think you; terribly that this can happen, they do not pay attention then to our studs and it is a convoy of stud carriages of departments also other, they have then heard nothing. And 1 or 2 studs were not stolen, but complete baskets full. How those have been then transported and think YOU not of what that a din will have given. There will recover to right the round of; this, however, the gypsies of beside area located will be. There went already wanted seizing tales of; them, however, gebarbecued will be. BUT. The other studs were discharged in St fin penny and THEN happened it. The next day came studs which were explained stolen. Thirsty and hungry, but according to the owner eigenaren not afgevlogen. The conclusion was direct that these studs not stolen products in Saint fin penny. After closer research appeared that police force research also no has been. But only an indication at a French correspondence clerk that he had give that products there studs stolen to. No report of studs has been stolen. Hereafter it became a game between department 7 and the NPO concerning which nou responsible is. And which action takes there. Everyone slid it and when each duped devotees had done declaration at the police force, by it at least intimidating Leo Mackaay became (secretary NPO, but a year ago secretary of the department 7) and Huib Bransen (current secretary of the department 7) called or these people, however, knew how they brought the stud sport in a negative daylight with their declaration. The world on its head. Studs of you has been stolen and then do you declaration and then become you has been blamed that you deal damage to the stud sport. Or it in the doofpot must, because it stinks on all sides. It perhaps a attempt was COMMIT FRAUD. We have days concerning chattering and the conclusion have reached there that it could be possibly. Of course has been there also looked at then to how it could go then in its work. We think that these studs in the hut are at Van Geffen in Hedel continue stand. This is, as it happens, the verzamelplaats of the stud carriages of the department 7. Lossingsverantwoordelijke and the boss at charging the studs of department 7 is Jos the knight. Accidentally its studs were also stolen. It is natural something terrible national Saint win fin penny. With these weet, we thought right of national BLOIS, a world competition. That would want would of course gladly be won also. I, cut cow horn, my ideas free course and right have given our international secretary NPO Mr. Piet van Gils rung and him a number of days FOR national Blois the name of the possible winner here extra control given and asked preserve. The same evening I Jan the Jongh of the stud booklet have rung the track of the champions, with the communication that he would get the early product of the possible winner of Blois. He had been extremely astonished and has afterwards our NPO President Albert the young had been rung and him had been faced with this message. THE NPO would do control. For me it was. But until on the day of present still no explanation has been there concerning how this control has been performed. DOOFPOT!! Gladly we thus would want a complete declaration of the NPO concerning how the control has been performed and by who. We were not happy with the pace of matter and we have agreed with a number of people from several parts of the Netherlands himself once will look at what happened in Hedel at the firma of Geffen there. Therefore: WITH TWO CAMERAS AND NIGHT-GLASSES ON PATH. 1st time on Thursday at NPO escapes posted with two persons n.l. Mr. John Rekers from Amersfoort and cut cow Hoorn. We have then seen things and have filmed that could not in our eyes. But we were then but with and YOU weet that something like that possible onderuitschopt can become. We these to NPO driver have reported Wiebren of jets and him in demand to go along the next time. He this and 2e the time has promised has also gone along examine it itself. Also we have asked town canal for strengthening of the matter the stud devotee Herman Boekelo go along. 2e strongly with camera and sufficiently post time 4 man drink and eat to spend the night. And we the same has fortunately then considered things as the first time. In obscurity by a number of of us has been seen by the squares of the hall, which Jos the knight was stop only, however, a halfuur in the hall busy with all kinds of studs of the one basket in the other basket and totally no control had of whoever. These baskets were later put by the drivers in the carriage. Without monitoring of gone. This way pleasant detail is not, which then there at last two people came within in the hall there also still studs from a basket were obtained and were assessed by everyone. Detail is that later on the evening also Mr. Theo has joined himself Streefkerk at us. He has remained in our bus, which stood on the car park for the entrance of Van Geffen. Expressly: he has not been in other people's area. Observation of Wiebren of jets: Proposal you that at us in department frieze country for example top press such as Pieter Veenstra or could only be Jacob Poortvliet as last at the studs. That must you nevertheless if not even want organisation, irrespective of or this honestly and sincerely happens. We think that for the purity of a competition this type wantoestanden, which are frequently imputed to the Eastern Bloc countries or Asia in our Netherlands would have nevertheless come not for. LORDS DRIVERS ACTION: Try preserve the stud sport. This letter we will leave places on Internet. We will do a copy to the NPO and to the department 7 Tevens the drivers of the other departments will get a copy. Also he will be offered to the studs newspapers. We want explain all this under ede for what kind of commission or judicial apparatus thus. Cut cow Hoorn, Herman Boekelo, John Rekers and Wiebren of jets. Or use your own Translation . I use Babel.

from My Pippa News sheet....... Dear sports friend, 1 – Has fraud taken place in the biggest race in the Netherlands ? We are not certain and there is no hard evidence, but a few people in the Netherlands claim to be certain that things aren't as they should be : Read more and react : http://www.pipa.be/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5910 2 - Marcel Sangers sells his exclusive Koopman collection and also youngsters out these direct Koopmans. Go to the auction in 7 parts : http://www.pipa.be/toppigeons/ The overview of pigeons in the auction with their prices : http://www.pipa.be/toppigeons/toppigeon.php?id=742 The magnificent catalogue : http://www.pipa.be/verkoop/sangers/Sangerskoopmanlowres.pdf 3 – Next week the Jewels of the Sky auction will commence for the fourth time. It is an auction in which the cream of the European pigeon sport participate ( Belgium, the Netherlands & Germany ). Each of these toppers then also brings one of the very best, to give you an example. Superstar Jos Thoné is selling his best racing hen ! ( 1e nat ace pigeon centre east + Olympiad pigeon ! ). Something new to the Jewels this year, apart from the even better quality and the stronger participant field, are the unique films made by a professional director. There are now 3 films online. U can see them on : http://www.pipa.be/jos2008/index2008.htm Sportive greetings,

Written via the New York Times of a GOVERMENT documentry after being forced to own up to just what they really stood for etc, and to explain where the $30,000, 000 goes etc. Quote 'Responding to our formal legal request, the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (VDACS) has released PETA's 2007 "Animal Record" report.' end of quote etc. etc. Now with all their public sympathy, and money the next questions that beggers answerrs are 'Why didn't repudiante it, and B. Even threathen to sue, let alone acyually sue! After all America is the instigator and main stay of Suing willy nilly. wHY HAS THE WWW/l SAVE the Tiger CHANGED IT'S NAME?! WHY DO THEY WANT TO KEEP THE £bILLIONS they have, and as yet done nowt! Indeed why is the Tunasumi Funds untouched. Them Billions are 'Quote' ' Too late to do any thing regards this last Tusami... so are keeping incase there is another'! Just why don't you ever see, or can get an RSPCA officer to look at some disturbing local cruelty? Undermanne! Unless a big spread in the media, and TV Coverage... out everywhere then rattling the'Tins' eh! Why is when I put it to an 'Animal RightS' compaigner that I am also one, that I believe that if we feel strongly enough we would refuse any medication that has any bearing to animals suffering! Indeed make a stand and get where earnt Press coverage, indeed media via Tv exposure. Simple things even, like aspro's... or any more serious pain / suffering. I mean why do we want Anti biotic's, Penisilium etc. last one packed he's stool up and buggered off chuntering that we needed Medicences to allieviate pain, and further that they were a bloody good thing... never said bugger the expense though lol.

Written via the New York Times of a GOVERMENT documentry after being forced to own up to just what they really stood for etc, and to explain where the $30,000, 000 goes etc. Quote 'Responding to our formal legal request, the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (VDACS) has released PETA's 2007 "Animal Record" report.' end of quote etc. etc. Now with all their public sympathy, and money the next questions that beggers answerrs are 'Why didn't repudiante it, and B. Even threathen to sue, let alone acyually sue! After all America is the instigator and main stay of Suing willy nilly. wHY HAS THE WWW/l SAVE the Tiger CHANGED IT'S NAME?! WHY DO THEY WANT TO KEEP THE £bILLIONS they have, and as yet done nowt! Indeed why is the Tunasumi Funds untouched. Them Billions are 'Quote' ' Too late to do any thing regards this last Tusami... so are keeping incase there is another'! Just why don't you ever see, or can get an RSPCA officer to look at some disturbing local cruelty? Undermanne! Unless a big spread in the media, and TV Coverage... out everywhere then rattling the'Tins' eh! Why is when I put it to an 'Animal RightS' compaigner that I am also one, that I believe that if we feel strongly enough we would refuse any medication that has any bearing to animals suffering! Indeed make a stand and get where earnt P

Above is a bit muddled, it should have read … The above crap scenarios are nonsensical and needless. What does it matter a jolt about any ones ability or their’ performances etc. It doesn't for a second mean that A. They aren't correct; B. entitled to an opinion C. Make them less a 'Good Club member'! D Even a great Secretary. Indeed! They are very often the very essence and back bone of any good and successful Club. Further if it was for the 'Fanciers / Members like those slated above, Many, if indeed not MOST clubs wouldn't survive, let alone be the success they are, may have been, or able to even fly in a club, like they enjoy today! So please don't let's insult the very many great and often all-important back - bone of our very fancy! Take it as read, most clubs would never existed, exist, let alone function without the likes of us! So stop needlessly insulting us!

Ive sat back and listened to this crap for too long now.You are a complete idiot that obviously couldnt fly a kite on a windy day. Its arseholes like you that have wasted the Kirkintilloch club, jealous of their results, jealous of their reputation, jealous of their winners. Your a LOSER and everybody that supports you are LOSERS too. Whats your name? I bet you are an ex member that couldnt compete with the big boys. Thats the bottom line here, the cranks that have a go at the Kirky club, or me, left because they couldnt compete. Everybody looking at this thread knows what I am talking about. The Kirky club disband, thats it, nothing else, but still the diddies have a go for no reason. JEALOUSY, THE RUIN OF THE PIGEON SPORT. Derek Hay Not wishing to distract from this topic, nor it's way forward or views etc. But lets get real here, Once again silly irrelevant gibberings are aimed to colour thw water... Things like...... You are a complete idiot that obviously couldnt fly a kite on a windy day. Its arseholes like you that have wasted the Kirkintilloch club, jealous of their results, jealous of their reputation, jealous of their winners etc etc. are nonsensical and needless. What does it matter a jolt about anyones ability, performances etc. Doesn't for a second mean that A. They aren't correct, B. Entitled to an opinion C. Make the less a 'Good Club memebr'! D Even a great Secretary. Indeed they are very often the very essence and back bone of any good sucessful Club. Indeed if it was for the 'Fanciers / Members like spouted above, Many, in not indeed MOST clubs wouldn't survive, leta alone be the sucess, or able to fly even, like they enjoy today! So please don't let's insult the very many great, often all important back bone of our very fancy! Take it read, most clubs would never exist, let alone function without the likes of us! So stop needlessly insult us!

So, so, very sad, yes sad indeed... and yet even sadder is that it is happening elsewhere, and many clubs will be going the same way.

Saw an article just back a piece, before my P.c. went up the shoot about 'Peta' and having to watch out for them so called 'do gooders'. Well they are obviously a hypocritical shower I guess, that have no room t o spout about behavior towards our pets etc. and should really practice what they preach and get money for. Seems to me that all these concerns are of am 'Self' mode and just money making concerns. R.S.P.C.A, and the RSPB topping the list! Please read http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

Stop that at

Could one stop it? Let alone police or enforce it if it is?

Strange managerment that... stiil! Personally I perfer a trap and landing board lol ;D

I believe this Jamie is really trying -no pun lol - but fear he will soon be saying 'Nuts to the lot of yer'. Good or bad! Wait and see... suppose one can start on another courier then! Golly that's sure is the way to go eh. :-/

There Tractor Boy is the reason. So no proven stock.... BUT Will make a great starter pack for another I feel.

Unlikely that ... else he'd be keeping them unless he's packing up. But then there will be many 'Mates' wanting first shout... Perhaps they have already had what they want!

Obviously one would say Dean Pallet takes all the beating. He who was the first - outside perhap a give pair to Dave Allen - to bring in, and he brought big! Devasted everyone of course when he set up again and flew them. (His Leon Boer were fantastic) But again, a lot, I believe personally, is down to the fancier and how good he is, who he flies against and of course their' Loft position.

As usual you are talking through your backside. Try sitting down and giving it a rest. Who delivered washing M/c and Wardrobes ???? Pigeons or anything else is important to the people who are at home waiting. Your self importance is astounding but not unexpected !! Well he might be... nothing new there then ;D ;D But I have to disagree somewhat strongly on that commnt...'Who delivered washing M/c and Wardrobes ???? Pigeons or anything else is important to the people who are at home waiting. This not the case and far from it., Love as many times when told ' Only popped out for a minute'... 'You'd think they bloody wait for a little while', 'I waited for them, so now they'll have to wait for me'! 'Well I have neighbours that would have taken it in ... Once this was a blumming great Cabin Pack we tried to dilvered... Yes a nieghbour did once take a Kitcken pack in, with a 13 foot work top'. then 'Fancy leaving it round the back'! Last place they'd look :-/ :-/ 85% tops have a sucessful delivery, and that is with Phone calls just prior and Day before calls'! And the Customer has admitted wrong 1% I'd say. Crap happens, just look at the roads and Lorries dilivering! To disbretusion ( One for Chris ;D ;D) warehouses to be other warehouse to be sorted, to addresses all over the UK. Yes drivers / warehouse men just doing their job as told often by creeps that have no idea. Often sorted and packed by people that can't even read english!

Crap love... Byme

Ask for you money back! Bet he soon fixes it, the arrogant plonker.

Agreed ... sorry lol ;D ;D Mind a loverly looking BUSSCHAERT that. Looks like the 'Dark Coppi' lines, or Corbett's...

It's a cheating sitution ... Jane Fickle

Do you know what you're on about :-/ :-/ Think you are getting confused mucker, go and have a quit lie down ;D ;D ;D