Roland

Good one mucker. Nice to get in first I feel. Will - hopefully put two up. Don't normally pu the birds together till first week April... But will this season put a pair at least together. If fact will put all my yearling together.

Thanks for the Cheque mucker... Joyce has it in her bank lol. That won't be spent on a bag of Maples now lol. ... But keeps her smiling lol.

John, just had a quick look at your site. You have made a couple of claims, then underneath stated who and when they were acheived. Exactly, as far as I am concern, how it should be1 My point entirely. Now as for others that make such claims: My point is, A. the y should. B. If not shown, then questions ARE in order to be asked... and further, Questions should be answered. I for one am amazed for instance when a genuine question is asked and no reply, just skitting around it, and THEN crap flies out the shoot from 'Defenders of the Realms'! By the way, a very nice site. Easy to get around, and above all relative and informative.

Fair comment John, I fear, unfortunately, some times unfair muck sticks to some very reasonable and fair, genuine fanciers such as your selve. Further, let me hasten to add that in no way do I wish to distract from the fact that there are indeed very many such as you. Very was, and is in no way meant to distract fron such as you. Indeed I also further venture, feel that I / this topic only helps to high light such as you!

Pfizer Corp. announced today that Viagra will soon be available in liquid form, and will be marketed by Pepsi Cola as a power beverage suitable for use as a mixer. It will now be possible for a man to literally pour himself a stiff one. Obviously we can no longer call this a soft drink, and it gives new meaning to the names of 'cocktails', 'highballs' and just a good old-fashioned 'stiff drink'. Pepsi will market the new concoction by the name of: MOUNT & DO. Thought for the day: There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs and huge erections and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them. If you don't send this to five old friends right away there will be five fewer people laughing in the world .

Then worst scenario is that too many genuine fanciers DAREN'T ask any thing! That Ladies and gentleman is the facts! Never cared me self too much how good great any flyer is. Proved times I even gave good write ups to fanciers I had no time for ... but their pigeon and then they got the credit they deserved. Never been envious, jealous or wanted what was not feasible. Have some great muckers in the game, know some fantastic great genuine fanciers. So am happy for myself. Feel sad for the sport. Ashamed of some folks derides, and above al get really peeved when 'Names' are wantedly shield and exorted for conning Joe public. Got really one should ask a simple question or two before they flay into any one for asking, let alone challenging a 'Name' which is 'Do they have the right to'! 'Are their Claims realistic'/ and above all 'DO I know for certain the actual reality'?! Perhaps hen that would go some way curbing stupid claims! Not a lot far agreed, but certainly a little perhaps on sites I feel.

Great Post Ian. Our main two corn suppliers do sponsor our Fed somewhat. When I do Fund - Raisers they with sponsor a race say. Weetabix used to sponsor some distance races... And their one time owner bought most of the Cups etc. Also the Gold cup. But in reality what is £25 for a sponsor? well... Thought that counts

Now there is a gent... and again isn't this the actions, the good parts that make our sport so great at times......

Is this the very fiber that makes up the very essence of our great sport! Often think ifthere wasn't the 'Money / Greed' to be had in SOME sections / places, the sport would actually prosper a lot more. If only that was the case ... Indeed I know oh too many that would still be flying!

So WHY! Why do they not come forward with a straight forward answer? Guess the reason is obvious. So that, then, beggars why do so many spring to their' defence and swarm all over the person that dare ask? A great instance I recall that bears thoughts was this scenario to a T is of a good, if not great flyer who when he put forward a few questions to a certain Feather merchant. He was nigh barred from the site! Well he was actually, but then later re - instated. Then a series of answers was put forward, about time to do this, he's partners are too busy etc. etc. an answer that actually answered nothing! Now ***** , well he took a little flak, but he himself is apparently not a jealous bod, flies a good pigeon, has a decent set up etc. etc. yet even he was carpeted big time. FOR querying a sellars claim! Which raises the question 'Why do folks spring to a 'Names' defence, spout all and every inuendo's as to why they needn't answer... and THAT everyone knows just how good etc. they are. Surely the simple reality would be, instead of 4 pages of why they don't can't etc.simply put three sentences together actually answering the questions / queries. Psst, Well now let me let you into a little secret, many good name flyers laugh at how they get away with it. They say that it is crap, that THEY, like most know it isn't true, let alone feasible or possible, and let it lie. Yet if a layman says as such, the jealous useless flyer should be lynched and never allowed - if he suvives - to be allowed on any site, let alone in a club to ever fly again etc. etc. That Ladies and gentleman is the facts! So why do 'FANCIERS so called' do that to genuine flyers that want just a little creedance put to their claims!!!

;D ;D ;D Brill, hope I get the chance lol to spout that one.

Hi, there. The hard core and grass roots are brill, every club has a few gems, those willing to give and help freely, and really help one to enjoy this great sport.... unfortunately as in every walk of life there are those that think that everyone should just put into their coffers and be happy about it. It is, when kept modest and sensible, undoubtedly the best sport / game in any town... or past time. ls also great for youngster, a true learning curve in their lives (and some fanciers stil I might hasten to add) who readily to love and respect a pet that is dependant, yet indepen of the owner.... yet has to be cared for and treat well... fed watered and etc. yet is totally free, free to fly the freedom of the skies. It allows one to be akin in a wonderful way with nature. Teaches responcility, fairness and that one will only get out what one puts in. Has the essence of innocence through and through, teaches great happiness, and sometime the uncalled for, yet necessary part of sorrow that one has to have to strengthen ones charactor in life! .... As long as greed and unfairness is ignored... but hopefully not by more f them packing up.

Never said otherwise! But that doesn't mean 'Change' isn't needed. You know, just look around, the sucessful clubs are the happy clubs that have a 'Spirit' a Team spirit where they socialise, help each other and have the cheerful banter. Yes there are some... Mostly with a hard working sec and a decent 'Dictator' with the 'GOOD of the Club' at heart. Other clubs in Fed strive to attain same... but won't run a Raffle, or Lottery number even, let alone Fund - Raisers... Mostly they are ego trippers that want to win at all costs. But their clubs fold one after the other. Often heard 'Club forming to be a winner' - never works, because they always have another 'Winner' joining. But on the flip side, very often it is to get rid of certain members... Winners maybe, but more often than not, horrid persons. When I first started a typical one said to me' Ah remember your dad... couldn't fly a Kite, and flew stray's'! Should have slapped him... but then realised he applied every year to join 2- 3 clubs, and refused everytime. Flew with 3 other like manner... He died not long after and they couldn't form a marking station...... They held their birds, but inevitably packed up as no club would let them in. Bad sportsmanship?! All clubs were better off without them, so evil necate...? Their' attitude stunk and was rank, it was like a cancer that spread amongst anyone silly enough to listen to them. Funnily enough, all 4 were moneywise well off. But the rank and file beat them nigh every week in the Federation.

Yeah lol... Remember that saying when a certain good flyer was beaten by me when a novice... ;Mine showed them the way home' to all and sundry. Never said 'Bt mine were infront'! But then I was a nipper snapper that 'Knew his Place' lol

Once remember a post where a famous flyer was telling a 22 year old with 2 kids, one on the way, working a part time job just to fly his birds, to buy expensive stock birds etc. like HE had, and that he should shut up 'Moaning' and take out a bank loan for thousands and buy some birds! He also stated that he'd done this that and the other to help flyers and the sport - All fibs! Now that is past the realms of possibility for most, that is an obviously fact, mostly convienietly ignored. A reply can back as as he was such a good sort, did he have any of the 'Culls' he bragged of to spare! The topic soon became swamped with the masses belittle, callin he 22 year old and spout what a great and wonderful man this shyster was! Most CAN'T. 99% don't mind that! It is an acceptable truth, and this nation(s) has always been brought up with the 'Right of teh Priveledged' as their right, and is a Land acceptable as the 'Haves' and Have nots'. Sure some better themselves, some are able to prosper more than others... Depends upon up bringing and the very nature of the individual. Not all can, in fact 98% or more can't through one reason or another. BUT are happy with their lot! Don't need all the I'm alright Jack' attitude, nor he slants. like the chivalous flyer that says to the novice. 'Yes see you got a card... 4th wasn't you. I won but I had 7 come at once and a few straight after... but thought I'd give you a chance' Golly tjhey see my *expletive removed*! Better to say nowt! I timed in one from Bergerac and left two out, and others actually. My mate was there. I saw two youngsters take 3rd and fourh. I won by eleven hours, and was happy, took the money like.Mate mentioned it to the club Pres what I'd done. Three years down the line, both good flyrs, as thir families are, one says that they knew, and had been told a few months later. Yes I was mad, because I liked the idea of encouraging them! Bt it stood in good stead, and they are first class members. like to think in some small way I helped to wett their appetites.

Bad sportsmanship seems alive and well. Sounds like it is overdue to petition the national organization to draft requirements about clubs, feds, etc. If the national organization arbitrarily sets all boundries, would that help? Yes, it certainly is! BUT sadly it is the Good Sportsmen, the genuine salts that just pack up. those with the lust to win at all costs never pack up, against their nature... But some how I don't understand, or visualise that is what beinga 'Sportsman' is all about. Was always led to believe,one has to learn to lose with grace before one can win with ... Yes and most of the file and rank do just that, week in and week out, and are so very proud when acheiving just a little sucess. It certainly ISN'T them that are the problem! Golly the members well swell again if only more were like the 'Rank and File'. Yet isn't just so, as soon as they ask, or query, then the crap sceanarios come out. Unfortunately always at the wrong element. Most are so far up their own *expletive removed* with self importance, andtheir Goal that they can never smell the coffee, let alone any roses. Shame that! AND yet the grass roots carry on dispite of them and try to enjoy the simple pleasures

Don't for a minute believe that any Fancier / Feather Merchant, famous or otherwise would tolerate that either. Obviously we are talking about genuine, honest and relevant, yes and purposeful queiries.

I ask, is the Rapture problem still far worse down the West cost as on the East coast of Scotland. Does one really believe that pigeons won't fly over the pennines, or the Back Bone of BRITAIN! I don't know in all honest the Rapture side of it, but I do know that them so - called mountains are no obstacle to a bird to cross them. Most fanciers are not in a position to win money, most couldn't care less about it, they fly for the fun, and hope that they get a deserved merit when their bird(s) do well. That is what they plan and dream of through the close winter months. That is why they hope different pairings may pay off in 2 years time- they aren't then planning to pack up... That is why they get nissed when selfish proposals are put up year in year out which is for the 'Chosen Able' and doesn't do a thing for them. that is why many tried to get elected to change things for the masses... to no avail. THAT IS why so many have and do LEAVE the sport! Never mind 'If they wanted to they would have any way'! Of that's true, and they tell us remainders season in and season out why... But it falls on death ears! they don't mind, the genuine ones, mostly the 'Good Clubman' cleaning out crates, marking birds etc. why some whisper Corridor Politics' to others to better them selve whilst not even lifting a crate. Yes it is the same ones each time in most clubs that do the work, these salts of the earth that are so alas very often taken for a ride, let alone granted. When I was 'President' I stopped their' birds going through till last. I then went into the bar room where all the bragging rights are done and told them politely 'Your birds still need to go through,. It is your turns to mark and you have about 30 minutes, as we are now proping up the bar and spouting 'Tavern Talk'. They'd never believed it... but they quickly got off and put their arses into gear and did a mite. This last 2 seasons I haven't been on the comittee's so it falls on deaf ears lol, except when I get there that make room and say 'Step up lol. the other club does it all on a rota system. You have to make arrangements to swap with someone else if you aren't going to be able to make it.

I appreciate that certain sections now have more members, through size etc. Some places are More populated. So if a section has 2/3 4 times more fanciers, one would expect their sections, regardless of where abouts they are, it would be same ratio to the populas of each section. Shame indeed when a section has less than half another section, even a 1/4 and has more members flying the said 'National' whatever. Why also do they then have more peoples on committee? Because they can now say that they have more members etc. etc. Was always the case. Why does the UNC send regularly times more each week that all the so called Nationals put together? Sections and the ground roots fed up paying into their coffers, springs to mind. Yes the ole 'Hot potatoe' so often stupidly used 'They would have packed up any way'. Or they weren't good enough' etc. etc. Never mind not being good enough, we all dream that this season ... just maybe... Most would fly in a section where a well deserved merit for winning or flying well was appreciated. Hence timefolds more entering Nationals! Simple that. But no, more is taken and less given, and more leave. Look at Northants, Leicestershire and surrounding districts and how many even bother to be in the NRCC! (Called the East Coast Club' Yes it was7 at was last count. Some came back in through the Avian Flu Scare! and Left again! Why can't the powers to be be fair and realistic? Indeed Albear answered this once 'Why don't the South Rd, and the North Rd share the same premises, Market station etc.'? Further why is it not pratical to have clubs part of an Amal, then Part of a Combine and ALL part of a National or larger concern?! Save costs, YES racing would be at least halved. Further it brings a chance of deserved merit every week... especially when the wind is in the favour of.... Some Merit earnt! We went East, Belguim etc. no so long ago through the F & M. Didn't we see some new names at the top. Wasn't the letter columns filled, still wet from the tears, of thoses that didn't prosper that season. Yes some great flyers that had had too little creedance for too manys years of long efforts. Most fly for acheivements. Small accolades of smaller ponds! They'd rather buy another bag of conditioner, or an extra training toss that waste money via for honours in a national. Ones with unfair sections. I see then that mostly all the BEST Flyers live in the North East, or Tamworth Way, or norfolk.... No good flyers else where eh! Regardless of where the sections are drawn, the Same lofts will be fore front National wise. their area's - as all - will being flying against the same crack flyers. But him flying from Thurso might have the same Merit in Wales as they deserve in Norfolk. Yes in a west wind him in Prescot, Preston may well have a pigeon on the day that flew every bit as good as his did in Louth... just the creedance of merit is not the same.

Yes other problems, like small back gardens, not safe allottments, Missis and kid expecting and demanding more time etc. etc. BUT none of these have a real bearing whatsoever with the Fanciers already flying, or worse still Have flew. Costs, well that afects every sport and past time! I'd w4ager that more pack up through bias and selfish reasons of the unfair bias's of the more and better positioned and located lofts. In deed far out wieghs ALL the other reasons by far put together. Was a Healthy contigent that flew the NRCC every year. Indeed they transported our birds with theirs on certain races - and still do. By one vote they decided to extend the SECTION right out to the EAST coast. 3 members stayed. TThey have since recinded and put back the once accepted and ludicruss boundaries, and gained just 3 more memebers, Indeed I make it the 7th member! Now all very well saying it is voted in via the majority etc. What gets my goat, and all the rest, is 'Just why did this futile and very negative proposition get put forward in the first place! To bolster the more ables coffers. In the South Rd, the NFC did the same, extended our radious to the East coast. We left in droves... never went back!. Believe that was also put off, or back... no matter damage is done. So now NO programme is able to be done in our club because some won't rejoin, other joined another, and what not. So it is the same members flying against JUST A few of the club members in any so called National, and that with the CNsfc whatever make the BICC THE Nrcc, the MNFC, THE NFC etc. so they are really a waste of time, and a pathetic joke flying in. Indeed more creedence is flying for Club and fed Honours! Again in the Great North Rd uptil the early 60's Every body enter the National as per norm. Many just one or two, the other 3 or four were just left in the club - becuase of the extra pence with a wing and a prayer that they'd entered the best birds! Reg Gutheridge sent 7 for instance. Left three out. Yes you've guessed it, one had a stormer and would have won the Gold Cup / Kings Cup the whole shebungle, etc. Jst won the fed. We need sensible section that pertain to what the wind is predominately! Mostly west in it. Length much rather than distance, preferably boat shaped... But this again needs to be under a another which I may start a little later under Fairer Sections.

Pretty much the truth there as I see it. System / management first, second and last. Natrix won fro 700 miles and 50 miles. Sellers / Fanciers can sell themselves, it's the birds! So what they excell at distance wise becomes known as that 'Distance' birds.

Ian very well said. I feel we have promted a core that runs through our sport, one that has been needed to be said for such a very long time. No honest minded person that has been in the sport for a litle time can help but know the truth of what you have just stated. I say it is the very real fear of being decried, belittled as a laugh or joke that stops so many saying what we both feel / know to be true... as you have re - initiated above. Well said. Was a time when a few of us felt we were a lone voice in the wilderness. But I suspect, believe, that is not in essence the real case. But, sadly, too many won't speak, and too many try and then dispondently just pack the sport up.

Brill. Going copy to leave it on the table for the dragon when I leave for the pub... Be home nisssed as a pewt and won't fouble a truck lol. amaking sure I'm up and out before she wakes lol.

Totally agree! Further there are many little, cost effective ways... but Apathy, and time, Wanting everyone else bar them to do it, is a big bug bind I believe.