Roland

Is our sport run and 'full of dinosaurs' Same old song... but a different beat as the song says. New selfish having a strangle hold and defeating a way forward!

Seem, most likely 'When' won't happen then.

I will say whole heartedly philg50 that as far as I'm concerned and very many others in the sport … By far the vast majority, that you are one pigeon man through and through. One, I have no hesitation at all, in saying you want what is best for fanciers and 'THEIR PIGEONS'!' Alas, and nothing detrimental intended, you feel, WHEN YOU see and hear as such from what's posted here today, like so many feel, think 'What is the use'? Their' force of argument, baseless as it is, takes affect! The thoughtless ragging is something that 90%, don't want, nor need, let alone have to put up with. Sadly apathy takes hold. They know better! But blinkered they speak only of self interests, as harmful as it maybe. I see now a post from DAL12 about starting youngsters of in 2nd week in May … when in reality nature says that they should be leaving the nest! More so the youngsters need and deserve more merit than to be carelessly wasted! Why does he, or anyone else, say such silly things in the wake of what is happening to our sport and the devastation happening NOW? Particularly for our stressed out youngsters! Yep, that's it! Add more stress! Now that's bound to do them the world of good. Yep empty transporters (TELLING the real story why they are empty!) can be used to batter them and our sport EVEN more! I should cocoa. Be good to know as to the reasons - sensible one only, or ones that make sense, why thus innate thoughts aren't selfish and uncaring? Not only to the grass roots of the sport but even more so to our supposedly loved pigeons! I know, 'I want to race as much as I can'! 'I never bought pigeons to be fair to them', 'I want them to race or be lost and nuts to any consequences'... Next it will be that the 'Transporter is idle and costing us money'! .. Not saving on fuel lol.

More!

A postal vote, doesn't negate a secret vote. Mind it would mean many would vote whom normally wouldn't vote. Also the nemesis of frighten to let certain ear ticklers and forceful one - wouldn't say bullies - would no longer be a problem. Kyleakin Lofts a good post.'.. In an organisation where I am a delegate, non-attendance at the AGM is taken to mean we are getting it right and no changes are required. I then look at posts on here and feel that view is not correct. Apathy is killing our hobby....'. Maybe the fact is that the powers to be now in nigh all pigeon committees have had it too much their way for too long … to the detriment of the sport and the pigeons. maybe they also need a kick up the jackseys and rude awakening. the old pals act and glebe talk is the major culprit of others apathy I believe.

I think, honestly, that one and all should think about A. WHAT IS best for our pigeons. B. What is best for the sport and c. get into a brain gear of reasonable ability. Forget about personal wants and likes for a moment! Forget about 'Racing at ANY COST! THE COST IS far to high on our birds for starters. the merest of facts that 'Some breed to lose' … 'To compensate losses' should tell one and all that something needs change. Yes of course time for that later. the fact we hear more whinges and moans every season is 'SHOUTING NOW'! AT US.

Change? The facts are as plain as the nose on our faces. The sport can not go on like this! Never mind apathy, never mind daren't speak out. The facts remains - for several reasons, not least encouraging new members - But how? Then just WHY! Used to be many reasons why the sport was a competitive hobby. Very cost effective in real term. So some things we can't change, only alter our sails. But the sad part is it IS up to you! You are the care takers of our sport! Had a very good Email, which sums it up for starters. I'll leave out the person name as it was sent to me. It is only one of many of the same ilk. In part this is it in a nut shell! '...………….. Hi Roland good to hear from you. Your posts are, as always, spot on. I have been canvasing our fed for major change, for as you say if you do the same every year, then you get same results or worse! I have plenty who, like me, want to see major changes. Changes like starting racing o/b's 2nd week - end in May. Fly out 12 race prog to be made up by a race committee. Then a 3 week break and fly a 7 week y/b prog distance no further than 110 miles to shortage club for education only.....' Now I, personally, feel this is a good step to start off with. Maybe, just maybe the time has come for a secret ballot!

Good, if silence you may well be granted from the more knowledgeable of having sense... For they can't say otherwise. Carry on posting and they know eh! :emoticon-0136-giggle:

That is why Froog the 'Good / Knowledgeable fanciers at the B/B sale will only ever buy back their own. Their birds may be carriers of a aliment, which never affects their immune system … So why risk added a problem that may well turn up from another youngsters loft! P.s. Just when does one think these fanciers introduce a new swapped bird from a proven sauce with good constitution and genes (Blood)? Not a week or two, not even a few weeks. No that's for sure! They are left a compartment with the droppings of their' new loft. So the results and immunity will be seen and gained. If they go down, they aren't bolstered up with pills and from the bottle … nor would the original fancier take them back. THEN after they have gain condition etc. Are again healthy and 'ARE' the part THEN and Only then are they introduce to their new mates to be. Logical and simple. Not Rocket ''''''' but common sense. When Mark Gilert started up on his own, after the the expierenced gain from his father, The first thing he did after building his lofts was take the droppings and placed them in his new lofts. Fact! Later he introduce the birds to breed from... Still would. the rest is history.

Oh I see … more of the same … Nonsense! lol. Yep you have been promoted to the class of a 'John'.

Some truth there Bigpete. But he was pinching bottles of Vodka beside being unruly... He was wrestling trying to get away... Police have to use the force needed to apprehend surely, and he is a big fit lout... He was being 'Jack the Lad' and stuff the law and other members / customers. He had a few charges dropped too. Now I'd wager any one, that if I, or my son etc. got tanked and became unruly. Resisted an arrest etc. and THEN hit a police woman I wouldn't get a £25 fine... £2000 isn't a weeks wage to him - I would get charges dropped, nor fined. I would get time, like the vast majority of the common people. Agreed not much of a role model, but then he isn't paid to be. But those with a conscience become role models. J.M.O.

Tell me grdkeith, as a man of truth, how many youngster have you lost so far this season? Indeed the last 2 or 3 years etc. I'll be honest and tell you, I average 2 or 3 off the top of the loft each year. there was a fantastic pigeon loft over the road from me... an old dialect Cinema. They never caught and removed the hundreds of pigeons when pulled down, so the street got an enmass of pigeon nesting and breeding on the eves of our houses. Me! Over the last few years I'd I lost less than 8 per year! Many still shape up nicely in others fanciers lofts, breeding decent and good pigeons. I could go on, but self praise is no praise … but you can also take into account that all my pigeons went first time in the basket as yearlings or 2/o's to 150 - 200 miles in a race. Mainly I was in top 6. Never won a race like that admitted. But when you think my location was between 12 and 20 miles out on a limb. That 3 members alone sent an average 200 birds … these lofts were within a couple of hundred yards of each other. And there are up to 29 members. I've been in or around pigeon for 64 years. Have many great genuine results etc. Now be truthful oh wise one, as I am apparently afflicted, an unarmed man, how many youngsters do you breed each year? and what are your losses!... start with this season etc.!

grdkeith Now you're just being silly! If you can't, or don't want to debate, to learn or offer sensible posts, I suggest you just watch and learn … No, don't be a 'John' and try and pick a post out and rubbish it... it will only further the hole you are digging... It is this very attitude of not wanting to change or an misunderstanding, this wanton desire to carry on as Norm at any cost (lol) that is helping and entrenching the sad demise of this sport!

Well you posted you do. I ask you, if losses have become paramount and getting worse most seasons over the past 2- 3 decades, Is their a reason? If so, then does one continue doing the same. Breed more to counteract this? Or sanely think 'Why and CHANGE is a must! REDCHEQHEN I'm certainly not in a cuckoo land. Though, to be honest, I don't understand a jot as to why you post as such and lay that at my door. I've known many that vaccinate for Pox early... But leave some till the first few races. Why... devastation. Plus a lot more! So please don't lay ignorance at my door step. Don't imply as a fact I don't know.

grdkeith says: 'Sorry Roland,as has been proven time and time again I am a simple man So can you please keep your questions shorter? : I think I will rest the case here regards grdkeith. As he has proven he is one that doesn't want to know, but will continue to blame the 'Unknown selfish and stupid brigade that send sick birds and ones that haven't been trained countless time'. Maybe he could write a non fiction book explaining the causes of these unknown? :emoticon-0136-giggle:

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/16/danny-cipriani-facing-court-assaulting-police-nightclub-fight-bouncer-7845672/ Well after that crickets' beating up lesser mortals and walking away scot free, I think this Danny will get a £25 - £50 fined and told to behave for hitting a policeman. SORRY HE HIT A POLICE WOMAN! Some man that. England rugby international Danny Cipriani has been fined £2,000 for an assault in a Jersey nightclub. The Gloucester star pleaded guilty to common assault and resisting arrest and was ordered to pay £250 compensation to a woman police officer. Two other charges - larceny and being disorderly on licensed premises - were dropped. The fly-half has seven days to pay the fine and compensation or face 10 weeks in prison. I personally agree 100% with former England captain Michael Vaughan who says all-rounder Ben Stokes "does not deserve" a warm reception from England fans in the third Test against India on Saturday. Stokes was involved in a fracas in Bristol last September but was found not guilty of affray on Tuesday. The 27-year-old is set to return to the side at Trent Bridge having missed the second Test while on trial. "He has brought the game into disrepute," Vaughan told BBC Sport. "Knowing the England cricket fans as I do, they will give him a reception. I don't think he deserves that," the 43-year-old added. I will add 'Made a mockery of justice once again.

Dooheed 5 in a few short words said an awful lot. Indeed about 40% to 50% of the truth in regards of our problem.

grdkeith as for Rings, Are we saying as many as the youngster we are prepared to lose? Or are you saying 'I want to only breed from proven birds, having no more than 2 nests tops. If you have 12 pairs and finish up with 6 pairs that is still a lose of 50%! So does one breed culls to copensate losses? Hav 50 pairs for example? Of course not, for a cull is a cull and costs just as much to breed and feed etc. as a good one. So each and every loft should work on a 'Yard Stick'. First yard stick would be the parents that bred those lost. Change the pairings if they had flown well. no more than thrice though. So after the age of 4 you have birds well flown... but not breeding the goods. The best pigeon that I every had didn't breed piddly pip. He had several hens. Even bought in a proven flyer and breeder... Never bred oat any good. Now two strays, believe it believe it not, have far more chances of breeding a good birds than what's in most fanciers lofts. Indeed 6 pairs of unrelated strays may well form the basis of a very good loft. As has been proven many times.

I never raced young birds for a variety of reasons. Hence didn't bother to toss them. Why! They ranged for miles on end. 6 mile radius etc. What does one really think in regards TEACHING THEM! They would fly with love and zest and pick around the garden etc. CONTENTED! Others went around the circle. Now most like to sent in small steps and loose some each time. I - like many more used let them up with a federation near at hand. When loft fit as yearling they went straight into a race. First time ever in a basket! Always held their own. Losses was about 25% - 33%. They never got lost after. Why and how. Because we don't even know how they home! It's a natural thing with them … well was to we have hammered it out of them. Now all race liberations- where possible - should be head headed into the wind. Feds should be in the shape of a Viking ship as once proven -- I know, powers to be wanting to gain any and every advantage won't allow that. Like the Midlands and clubs South of them should fly up the West Coast. Break after the Cotswolds and spread. Fair and more sensible racing. N.W or South West same.

philg50 first of I'd think of is why? --- only one answer to why is because. If it's changed then there must be a reason or reasons. It's like 'If its there it is there because'. that's a fact. Yonks ago the Jannsens father was adamant that widowerhood would never be accepted in his loft. Stated it was unnatural. Well I'd say 'Not so' in as much anything natural can and will be compensated after the race season … or before. However it was very true in his day, as in the 60's to the 80's, to now that the fact is the top flyers swap or borrow birds. Why... Because it is a natural progression of an healthy out cross. It is only a money making machine that sales G/ CH. even Double GG Children of the sell big time for big money. So one buys in more of the same way bred. That for starters fills lofts up with culls. Fact! Never mind the ones that win - if true, and sometime it is, mainly because the law of averages makes it so as most lofts are fill with garbage! So the standard is derisively. a 100 or more to obtain the same results. Don't laugh, just look around. Look at the losses etc. etc. A good fancier on here stated 'I will send you some youngsters … after I make sure that they are looking good. No youngsters will leave this loft if not up to it'! So then it says in reality some, or many, aren't up to it! In the 50's 60's 150.000 fanciers sent far, far less than the birds sent today! When a team of 12 raced the whole program. Likewise the y/b's UP TO 11250 mile or more. seasons end the problem was so very often the fancier had too many birds! fact. When a pigeon had to earn its perch, let alone a nest box. Birds were swapped etc. or bought in cheap so no breeding was closely related. Then stud sold pigeons at the 'Working man's' price. Many a good team was bought in August or September off late bred, when the fields were ripe for the fielding … Sadly no longer applicable. But these later bred birds were bred in the pink from proven birds that HAD flown the programme! So firstly, and a big thing, would be for many a fancier to swap a dozen or so cocks / hens and start breeding some constitution and try to get an immunity back by not reaching for the bottle or pills. All and everything can be bought of a super market shelf if must be! I would, AND DID allow the ill one to stay in the loft. Let others MIX have or get the same... Lost 2 in years back and not in the last three years. BUT the loft gained an immunity... saved me money and I had great healthy and conditioned birds. Now EVERY loft has it's own ailments. Like the pigeons then do. They may well be carriers, but not affected TO ANY extent. In another loft, or introduced birds may falter. Don't swear at the person you got it from, or them swear at you! It is in the loft. Was a time when after a week or two new arrivals immunity got over it. They bred that immunity in their youngsters. fact. Now it's a bottle, or culled. What's that stupid saying 'If others can then so SHOULD MINE...' Be it racing or getting fit or over an ailment. that bogey of 'It cost a lot, so it must be good and soon will throw back a winner or two' rubbish! Only healthy pigeons win races! If held up by pills and stuff in the drinker, then as soon as its asked the question they go down. Race programs need to be started later. Full stop. Pigeons need to get back to a natural environment. For their own, and for our own good. end of rant for a minute lol

I agree entirely. Firstly why I never mention how, nor whom. As this has to be finalised by the RPRA. I will quite happily post after the facts. More over the main point I made, though clumsy in the order of my post, is that there is no room for complacentry whatsoever in our sport in this regards. Cheats do, and will always be there, to test us in our endeavour to make things safe and fool prove. Sadly this will never be.

On a serious note are we all so great a fancier that have the answers? That to blame imaginary fanciers for their stupidities, lack of knowledge is easy? That they are causes in the main for our losses? The detrimental downward spiralling of our so called sport? Hands ups if you are one of the stupid ones etc. PLEASE! Isn't it true that we go down the club and hear such each week? The umpteen arguments put forward and agreed with. Isn't it the case that nigh every one says the same! the same ole rig ma roll each week! Isn't it the fact that our beloved birds, our friends, have had the crap knocked out of them! In homing ability, in constitution and immunity and much other! Who dare speak up and say different? … Let's hear them say 'Ah I know it is for a fact it IS those stupid ones. the lazy ones, those that know no better and haven't got a clue! they breed culls and youngster to lose, to clutter up the town centres and foul up the pavements etc. If so why aren't you helping them? Most won't or don't because they are afraid that then they might beat them each week. Now that is a sensible and realistic fact. Isn't it a fact that one gets comfortable with habits, good or bad, and nigh every one does like 'Change'. Another fact is that most will make excuses, any thing or one to remain the same! A silent hope and a wing and prayer that it will get better! That 'He or She' is different, and Not one of them! P.s. YOU ARE! Doesn't, or can't one see, when the tide turned big time! Or is it the case of 'None so blind as those that will not see'!? The truth of the matter, the fact is, excuses are to enable one to stay the same! I tell my daughters when they have a problem 'What would you say to a friend if they asked you the same'? Further take a sheet of paper and smother it in dots. Now those dots represent 'People / folks! Circle one dot and regard that as 'You'. Now, to you. the other people are classed as 'Them'. But you to yourself believe you are different! Yes NOT one of the 'Them'! But isn't the truth that to all the others people you are one of them! Of course those that blame anything and every thing to are those that usually want to stay the same. have no change! So thing back as to when and why 'It is a fact that our beloved birds, our friends have had the crap knocked out of them! In homing ability, in constitution and immunity! There are only, in reality, two things that we can't control in our sport. The B.O.P. problem and the weather - climate change! So if we can't control the wind, we must adjust our sails. Ah we can't, because most would rather moan and blame the senseless one lol.

Ah I see where your pigeons get it from now lol :emoticon-0136-giggle:

' …………… then it settles down once the poorly trained, sick and stupid birds fall by the way Problem being that they affect the flock until they are gone. Well that's good, those that send sick, poorly trained youngsters aren't to blame then. I have, like nigh all fancier, have still to meet, hear anyone admitting to that to be truthful … Mind hear it so very often I'm beginning to wonder just where and who they are. Actually grdkeith I'm not picking you out personally, certainly not attacking, just stating that this silly nonsensible reasons are used.

I honestly can't believe these posts. Same old dribble of excuses every season. Most nonsensible. Young birds ….it settles down once the poorly trained ,sick and stupid birds fall by the way Gosh. Young birds don't need training for starters. that's for the fancier only. Agreed the fanciers have bred to the detrimental of the pigeon, both in constitution and homing ability. That's a fact! But to assume, imply that OTHERS breed sick and stupid birds is certainly saying something. Yep quite a mouthful that! many have success never training their birds EACH season. that's a fact … so why are we trying to blame fanciers that 'Poorly train' garbage. Stupid Birds? Maybe they are not so stupid, and want away from a loft that is so far removed from their nature wants, desires and elements! Training pigeons didn't start in earnest till mid 70's, and that by only about 60%. ' talk about name and shame... who's name would be up there then who 'poorly trained ,sick and stupid birds'? Oh I know, all those that only lose a few eh! Not the fanciers who lose week in and week out eh!