Roland

Nice post Owen and again pretty practical. Air in and out is a must. Like also the Rabbit hutch versions - similar to Kieth Motts. If had room and a missis that allowed me to hog all tye garden I would have Rabbit Htches, I.e. Part closed in for nesting, about a square foot, and 18 inch wired flight on poles in a circle. 12 pair like this would be ample and great for PL. AND Birds and me all alike.

Very true, and a good post. Used to encourage it myself. Mind it was rife back in the 50's and before.... was when DDT started to set in that the problem arose and they were deterred.

Good man.

Of course Tony what you say is correct, just as much as the right of a fanciers to know whether or not it has entered a loft. As for the onus being the fancier may be at fault, that may well be the case sometimes. Yet what for example of two very good local fanciers here about, both creditable seasoned flyers, whose birds - youngster’s especially- have been doing exceptionally well this season. Both taking not only wins, but 1st 1 - 5 club and Fed. Both sent their' birds - one most, the other all of them- To the National and neither one these weeks later have, like a lot more, haven't seen a feather.... like very many others top flyers too of course. Now I personally hardly think there could be a case make out to blame the fancier. We talk about spending money - well many - and say wouldn't it be great to track our birds etc. and would love to know where our lost birds all go. Yes we bemoan when a person lets you - via removing a rubber, or a £1 ET ring to let you know it's been in a loft and most likely fed and watered. A 'Removable rubber yes, even better a Note in a ring would be most appreciated by many of us I feel.

Well at least that would make the missis happy lol ;D ;D ;D

Exactly, was thinking that just a mite ago. Pete, a vast amount in our sport, and all others isn't right. Think a compulsory 'Removal' runbber would be a great idea.... never happen of course, but would be nice. Mind, like the ET ring which I understand, we have all heard many the moan even about the Rubber being missing on return, and that has to beat all :-/

So I have three back these last three days! Yes in great fettle. No one conditions a bird like nature. All have their' ET. Rings intact! Now let's face reality here, no note on legs either. Just where have they been? If in a loft I really do honestly and sincerely wished they'd have taken the Ring OFF. What a £5 maximum cost to know that all five had entered into another’s loft! Small price to pay I feel. Now I am in the position where I have to give them another chance. may well be that it will / could turn out they will have two homes. May be A. They won't want to stay away again and hurry back and hate a night out - be will not be too stressed in a race that becomes a 1 -2- 3 day race. Or they will just park up in another loft till fed up and home.... in the mean time I've afforded them a hotel for the winter months to no avail. But as I say I am in no position but not to try them again. And if one turns out well, then that’s fine I guess. Should we give youngster lost in first race another chance…. Even if it does takes weeks for them to home? :-/ At least for the sake of a flipping £1 : 10p ring I'd know for sure if they had entered, been fed and watered. £1 : 10 is surely such a small price to pay to know so much more. Yes should be a law stating 'Any bird entering your loft has it's rubber / ET Ring taken off!

Yep, a couple back from last night are a mite flown out. But you know, was speaking to the doctor the other week, about loss of fitness, and the merits of exercise again. Didn't of course realise the fact that If I eat and be sensible, with a margin of light exercise, my body within three years would be in the same condition as if I'd never have stopped training from my say young fit days. Of course age means we will never retrieve or get anywhere near that standard, but would regain where we would have been if being fit, exercise had never ceased. Now as birds are now 12 month old, live in aviary, plenty fresh air and wing flapping, I can only presume that they will become fit enough in their time to be trained to become fitter. I mean they are after all relatively still young. I mean I was way of fit when 18, burning the candle both ends, hardly ever got a decent sleep, and life the life of Riley to the full. Took me quite some time to knuckle down, and then to regain enough fitness to be able to up the exercise till i trained to become fit. At 19 onwards, no one was in better fettle or fitter. I could, and did run, daily and trained real hard, circuit training etc. and hard blew heavy and run home easily. Was up early for a run. Run a few miles in the evenings and then go gym. Train hard and spar all night and run home without any bother. So no I’ll never get there again. But the birds of an age like I was when I started back Likewise I hope with these birds. We all hear of the stock bird that have excel, many other reason why a bird was never raced till of an age only to prove that they were a mite special... so here goes and who knows lol.

Well some have landed and go back in through open door. Would you Adam and Eve it, my favourite youngster I lost i that race has just arrived. That's five from 16 now, and the last three were between Saturday and now! Cracking bird, and yes I will try him next season. Different if you have 34 proven, or consistant bird that you want to get down to the 24. May well be this next season i will start off with more than 24 - fingers crossed - and then at next seasons end :-/

14. 12 latebreds from last Autumn. The idea is that they are in good nick. Unraced and wasn't out from former loft. Well bred, and will be perfect age to start racing. Idea is to suplement my depleted race team. Besides never having 'Prisoners' before for very long, to be truthful I don't like them being prisoners. Have taken a late bred youngster of them, and they may well auger well for year after next. One must realise, as I HAVE certainly refound this learning curve, that when introducing new birds, losses will be higher than a settled family of proven flyers to your loft. They have shall we say sorted the chaff from the wheat.... the chaff as far as I'm concerned are mainly those that just don't wish to stay for whatever reason, don't like your system,loft or whatever are choose not to remain. - I don't, and never have believe a pigeon gets lost.... just never bothers to come home. So I will hopefully hone what are here next season into a formidable race team .... or have packed up lol. Yes 24- 12 pairs - or birds wanting to be here are more than enough to fly both ways. The hard bit is getting them. Like a very wise old fancier said the other day 'Those that fly both rds sucessfully are the ones to keep'. I agreed of course. Then this very morning on reflecting I smailed, for it is only those that HAVE flown both roads sucessfully hat did remain. - Those in the past that couldn't / didn't were of course lost, or at least no here. So Pete, trying to rekindle a flame and hopefully get a decent footing to start (YET) again lol.

Well I’ve let all the Stock birds out. Regardless who from, except two. One has to go back and one is on youngsters. Yes its mate is one of my own. Yes very nerve racking. But the buzz is like of old lol. Gave them open door yesterday, and of course they walked in and out, some wqent up. Know two returned and went in last night after dark as I had to open the trap up and nudge them through. Today, as of now, about 3 in loft, 4 on roof, and the rest flying with mine. Still if I get most back, and then with the four that I’ve got back now, and the few of my own I will have a race team of sorts and will carrying on flying.

Pretty good. enjoyed putting a few faces to names.

Yep many swear by it in the water on returns. Must be a lot better than electro's I believe personally.

Welcome mucker. Muellermans eh? :-/

Ditto, very true. I've gone - last season way out of my way to deliver, or release outside the owners home.... often not even bothered to say thanks. We do it, as simple as that, or won't. The won'ts come in all catorgry's obviously, but lay a heavy slant on those that 'Can't'! Many of these, and we have them in most clubs if truth be known, are often the most helpful and hard working club members. The ones always there, who finds excuses why he don't train train his birds very often etc. Pride! Because money is tight but won't say and won't accept help. Funnily enough we would bend over backwards to help these :-/ Many that are comfortably off, are the ones like DJ's ignorant git, that is the nerb of it. they want to be shamed and named.... but then many genuine will be tarred with their' brush undeservedly so, and unfairly labelled. So if it means that those that need help, other cretins benefit, so be it I say, because there always is and will be 'Bad Apple' selfish morons. But I disregard that is every so often I can help a genuine case, which of course goes without saying most of you all will.

Protective box... worn to protect the 'Nuts' lol

Find a decent fancier and - preferable out of your radious - and beg a few latebreds. Then from same sauce have some youngsters bred from him also. race just the y/b season through. Lightly train the latebreds with the odd chuck in good weather till say Xmas. After nesting, a couple of short races only till year after where they will really hold their own. It's as easy to lose good expensive birds as it is from a genuine decent fancier, in fact a darn site easier.

A very shrewed and sensible post. Wished I'd thought of putting that into such an easy to understand concept. A realism so simply put. But unfortunately, the Haves will alway wish the Have nots to have even less. Lets face it, if losing a bird meant it would die, most of us wouldn't entertain the sport, let alone be in it.

Well I sympasise with DJ. Further I with his sentiments and frustrastion. We have all had it happen to us. But Owen, I can't see for a moment any more pigeons dying because of these peoples attitudes. There are roughly - whether we admit or like it or not - three catorgrathies Fanciers fall in. Those of us that report, collect or have sent back, even release to the owners loft, another thankless and not apreciated exercise many of have , and still do. Thoses that quickly put in a basket over night and water and feed it etc. Even for a few days till fit, and then release up the road from their' location. The other is not worth speaking of and certainly doesn't need a mention, not only because of attitudes but what others see and may take note of. These bad fanciers are the ones that will eventually bring shame on our hobby. Most fanciers I know are willing to hold for a few days and release them up the road for us. So only birds that may die would be culled .... those that enter the wrong loft. I'd rather they'd do any of the otherpersonaly... But with so many with attitudes like DJ expierenced, that is one that causes the 'Not Tolerated attitude I'm afraid.

Think enough time has been wasted on this ... One line and a universe is drawn eh! No flipping wonder the 'Mods' never get time to do their job, engaged in this rubbish. A simple private suggestion P.J would have more than suffice eh!. After all you aren't there to tell, or gain noticism are we! Gosh lets all let these stupidities and just lie where they should do, out of sight! A mention to the mod in private, would be far better eh! Not saying - nor caring - whether the post should have come off, or amended, like 99% of all member who really gives a toss. It's done dusted and over with.... Time for others to get over it I'd suggest..

Good post Owen. Further only 'Pack' hunters that tackle much larger prey attack and destroy / kill via tearing the insides out. Most kill first.... Simple reality is ALL are alive till killed obviously. Lion / larger cats suffercate via wind pipe stangulation or closing their mouths over the preys nose and mouth.

they loft Glass.

Yep complaining about your Box being full lol ;D ;D ;D

Think they are worth more granted. Believe - personally - when the starting price is a bit steepish for most, we have two scenario's. Those that can afford comfortablely have already bought good priced pigeons, and though always on the look for a good cross, many have already an idea where and what they want. Which leaves those wanting a 'Good buy' (Naturely) looking for a bargain. The hardest part is then to get them to dip their feet in and feel the water. £50 would most likely have brought a swift response. Then like chicken scratching in the farm yard a crowd quickly forms. They will tempt themselves and go that little bit higher... The worst scenario is then of course not exceeding the £100 mark via very much. But the bid has to start somewhere, and hopefully raises the price merited. Yes agree it may well be the price warrented, not achieved may leave the taste in the mouth of 'If I thought that was all they would fetch I'd never have sold them.... indeed worth more at home'! Dammd if you do and dammed perhaps if you don't. That is my honest take of it. Nigh everyone, naturually, wants to hopefully raise the standard in their' loft... most have to wiegh up the cost to their' purse. (70%) I'd say. which still leaves 30% (12,000) that are able to snatch your hand off. But down to about 60 - 100 tops on here that can afford to start at a £100 JMO

Yes one of the best flyers in the Northants fed, went back to the Bussearts which had stood him in good stead for 20 years over.... now back at the top, and wins at the sprint and middle distances now as opposed to just tyhe distance and hard races.